Riders Of Vision

General => Board Archives => Topic started by: Brian Moffet on July 05, 2006, 10:27:48 AM

Title: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on July 05, 2006, 10:27:48 AM
The story continues:  (http://ridersofvision.net/forum/xzindex.php?topic=4302.0)

Yesterday (July, 4th) I was finally able to find time to start on the Vision.  The link above tells how I got to here, and since then the bike has been sitting in the garage, a victim of too little time.  However, school is out, which means that it's fairly quiet at work, and I'm no longer doing some of the extra-curricular  activities I normally do.

I started at the easy stuff, the seat came off, the side plastic along the seat rails, the lowers on the fairing, side panels covering the battery and the TCI.  Then the tank came off.  I noticed some of the fluid lines were getting a little worn, and they're on my list of things to replace.  Pulled the top of the carb box off.  The air-cleaner needs to be taken care of, but other than that, it looks good in there.  Everything is moving like it's supposed to in the carbs (as near as I can tell from looking down them).

Went to pull the front spark plug, and found out that the person who had last did work on it had put the spark plug cap on rotated 180 degrees.  It took me 30 minutes to get that thing off.  I did get it off without breaking anything, and pulled the front spark plug. It has a nice tan coloring.

I started going around the air-box to take it off, and noticed a hose was off.  It was right around where the vacuum line connects to the flapper system (remember this is an 83).  Could it be that simple?  Pulled down the manual.  Nope, that's just the air line from the valve cover.  It was not connected to the air-box, and when I looked at where it connects to the valve cover it had shattered there as well.  It is original and needs to be replaced.

I didn't have any more time to work on the bike so I put the air-cleaner back on, lightly screwed the spark plugs back in, and turned out the lights.  I don't have any answers yet, but I've started that first step of cleaning the bike up.

I'll be starting a web page about this with pictures some time soon.  Another place to get lost at on the information super-highway.

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: h2olawyer on July 05, 2006, 10:54:22 AM
Brian -

Looking forward to seeing the progress on your V.  Hopefully, soon you will have to change your identity again!   ;D

H2O
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on July 05, 2006, 11:57:08 AM
Hopefully, though right now I mostly have a feeling of dread that I am not going to be able to figure out what happened, or when I do it will be unrecoverable.  We'll see.

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Superfly on July 05, 2006, 12:02:12 PM
Nah, we have resurrected problems bigger than this.  Keep at it!
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: haunter on July 05, 2006, 12:40:15 PM
could be a coil dying....
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on July 06, 2006, 10:38:54 PM
I've started a web page on the rebuild, http://members.cruzio.com/~moffetb/vision/ (http://members.cruzio.com/~moffetb/vision/) which will probably change format sometime in the near future.  Right now it's raw HTML. I'll probably put it into some other form blog maybe?  Nah, that would be too hip and up to date for my 43 year old mind.  ::)

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on July 09, 2006, 09:53:02 PM
Wel, I ended up spending a few hours today removing the fairing, the mounting brackets, the front fender, the fork brace.  I had to remove the fairing brackets to remove the frame tube on the right side so I can get to parts to replace.  I'm going to try and do some work on it every weekend, even if I'm busy.  I'm going to have to clean and repair some rust spots, I've noticed one under the battery box that is probably the worse, and it looks like large surface rust.  Most of the frame looks pretty good.

If anyone needs photographs of anything that is on a stock 83 Vision, let me know and I'll see what I can do.

Brian

(http://members.cruzio.com/~moffetb/vision/Vision-7-9.jpg)
(http://members.cruzio.com/~moffetb/vision/Fairing-7-9.jpg)
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on July 16, 2006, 11:02:04 PM
went at the engine today with a scrub brush and Max Simple Green (or something like that).  It's no longer dirty, but I still need to polish it up (clear coat is flaking.)  Gives me a better idea of things that might need replacing.  I've also determined that at least I need to change the radiator fluid, possibly flush the thing. 

Other than that, things are moving forward.  I can see how to pull the valve covers off to check clearances (possibly a problem).  I haven't looked inside the float bowls yet, I pulled the airbox today after I washed the engine.  Still, both fuel filters look really clean.  We'll see. Next weekend will probably be the exhaust, and maybe the front forks.

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on July 21, 2006, 01:38:15 PM
woo hoo, got my TCI from Ebay.   Looks really clean too.

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: d0n on July 23, 2006, 10:58:15 AM
good luck with the bike! Gotta love it!
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on July 24, 2006, 12:28:59 PM
On Sunday, I put on latex gloves because I was going to pull the front forks.  It took 1/2 hour to pull the forks, drain them of oil, and tie off the brakes.  I discovered that the dust boot on the brake (part fiche 12/21) had melted!  It was a sticky gooey mess.  One more thing to add to the list.  I also discovered that there is a fair amount of surface rust on the lower triple clamp, I'm considering pulling those to repaint them.

Anyway, after 1/2 hour in my garage, I pulled the gloves off and sent sweat flying everywhere.  It was just collecting in the gloves, and only because it wasn't fresh water my hands weren't all pruney.

(http://members.cruzio.com/~moffetb/vision/Brake-7-22.jpg)
The gooey blob at the in the lower right used to be rubber, not anymore...

Brian

Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Lucky on July 25, 2006, 12:28:05 AM
Brian has a way with 'gross'!!! lol
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on July 29, 2006, 06:57:56 PM
Well, it's getting a bit scary now.  I pulled off the exhaust (need to fix some parts on it, one front tube will not separate from the back), the front brakes, the rear wheel and brake.  The rear brake still looks good, I may decide to keep it because it's fairly easy to replace later.  I noticed when I drained the brake fluid that it looked like very thin old oil, probably not a good thing!

There are enough pieces off the bike now that I get a niggling fear in the back of my head that I won't remember to put something on.  However, I have all the pieces in known locations, so if I miss something, I'll know it.  And I have yet to break any bolts, nor strip any threads.

Any ideas on how to pull out the exhaust gaskets from the heads? (these are the ones that are between the heads and the down-pipes.)

Brian

(http://members.cruzio.com/~moffetb/vision/Front-7-29.jpg)
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Walt_M. on July 29, 2006, 07:37:54 PM
That could have been my bike 3 years ago! The only things I've done to it since I got it back together was the wally world battery last year and the starter I changed out last month. Hang in there.
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: MotorPlow on July 29, 2006, 07:40:02 PM
I used an dental pick with a 45o angle and supplemented with a flat head screwdriver.
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: jasonm. on July 29, 2006, 07:57:50 PM
I would have got the thing running properly. THEN done the detailing. The only 4000rpm problem could be as simple as an bad spark plug wire or spark plug cap.> just arcing to the frame or corroded.  WHen you get it running  some how...always check with a timing light on each wire. A timing light will NOT fire unless there is spark at the spark plug. Wires and caps do go bad. ALWAYS start with the simplest or cheapest possible cause of the problem. Just hope it's not the TCI.
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on July 29, 2006, 08:19:39 PM
Yup. and I made a conscious decision not to do that.

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on August 07, 2006, 07:53:48 PM
Today I decided to do something productive rather than destructive.  I polished the front fork upper tubes.  I was not able to get them spotless, as there is pitting on the upper portion. However, I compressed them and the pitting is only on the part that stays out of the lowers.  So, they shouldn't cause a problem with the seals after I rebuild them.  I decided to also pull the full instrument cluster off and take care of that as a seperate item.

Soon, it will all start going back together.  I'll remember to replace the bolts for the rear brake bracing  ;D

(http://members.cruzio.com/~moffetb/vision/forks-8-7.jpg)
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: glennw on August 07, 2006, 10:03:38 PM
They look like new parts Brian.. nice work...!
Didn't you do this to an Airplane once??
GlennW
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on August 07, 2006, 10:10:34 PM
Well, next time you see it, you can still see where the tubes are pitted.  No, I didn't do this to an airplane, the plane I bought was rebuilt before I bought it.  Needs a paint job, but that's about it.

Turns out this seems to be my year for vehicle repair.  I was rear-ended in my RX-7 a couple of weeks back. The insurance company determined it was 80/20 (20 % my fault).  I had planned on painting the car later (I want to keep it another decade, it's an 87) but the damage wouldn't survive the winter.  So, looks like I'll be getting it repainted this year.  But I did find a set of storage compartments for it for 35.00 (including shipping!)

Ah well,

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on August 12, 2006, 08:59:13 PM
I pulled apart the forks today, after spending 4 dollars to make a tool (I don't think I have another tool as cheap.  No, wait, the 8mm hex was cheaper...)  It took a bit to get the nuts off the bottom, and when I looked at it after I was done, it looked like the threads had stripped!  Odd though, stripped thread remains are made of metal, not hard plastic...

On the right side for damper rod, I can see all the way through it.  On the left side, there looks to be a hard brown plug down at the bottom, about where the bolt stops.  It's the left side that had the junk in it.  I assume that it is "extra" lock-tight or something similar the manufacturer had put in there for one reason or another.

Now I can pull the seals, and put in new ones.  I think I want to clean out the inside of the tubes of old oil and other junk, anyone have any good ideas on what to use?  Soap and water with a good hair dryer after? ;)

(http://members.cruzio.com/~moffetb/vision/damper-tubes-8-12.jpg)

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: JakeC on August 13, 2006, 12:49:21 AM
There are enough pieces off the bike now that I get a niggling fear in the back of my head that I won't remember to put something on. 

Wow, can I ever relate to that!!  I look at the mess of brackets, parts, and bolts, and wonder how the heck am I going to remember all this!  Somehow, though, everytime I start putting things back together and it just seems to make sense as I go.  I keep the parts organized, so there is some logic to it, but it still amazes me when it all goes back together.  Good luck with your project!!  Looks like you have your work cut out for yourself!

Jake
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on August 20, 2006, 11:59:35 PM
Today I picked up the necessary equipment to clean out the threads on the forks, and picked up some Appliance Paint, which is a hard, scratch and nick resistant paint for appliances.  I tried it on a small portion of the bike frame that was hidden, and decided it would do just fine.  I removed the rear shock, the fender, put newspaper around the parts I didn't want to paint right now, and went at it.  I need to clean up a little on the rear frame, but it looks good.  You can tell the difference by the way the rear suspension looks vs the frame above it.

(http://members.cruzio.com/~moffetb/vision/Frame-8-20.jpg)
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on August 27, 2006, 01:02:34 PM
Cleaned up the fork lowers and painted them.  Same paint as before, an appliance black from rustoleum.  Unfortunately, the bottom fork in this photo fell over before I had a chance to secure it properly for drying, so I have to take out the dead leaves and repaint portions of it.  I'm not completely stripping the old paint off, just where it is loose or has some corrosion under it.  I try and feather those areas before I paint it, but I can still see some mistakes.  It probably wouldn't win awards at a show, but it will be solid and look good from 3 feet.

To keep the paint from entering the inside, I put the old dust seals back in, you can see it in the bottom fork, I removed it after painting on the top fork.  Now these babies can go back together (well, one at least!)

Not sure I'll get the engine looking as good, if possible I'm avoiding pulling it.

Brian

(http://members.cruzio.com/~moffetb/vision/forklowers-8-26.jpg)
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on September 03, 2006, 05:12:34 PM
Today I cleaned up the fork lower that had fallen over last week, and repainted it. It promptly slipped and rolled around on the newspaper I was using to protect things. We'll try for take 3 on that one. I also painted the top portion of the triple clamp where the idiot lights go. I have a picture of it, but I've discovered that the high gloss black doesn't photograph very well.
I also wanted to get something put back together. So, I put the right fork back together. There is no oil in it right now, because I will be ordering some progressive fork springs for the forks. When I get those, I'll put oil in the fork. However, one thing has gone back together and is ready to go back on the bike. The bike is not ready yet, but that's another week.
(http://members.cruzio.com/~moffetb/vision/fork-sideways-9-3.jpg)
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Mutt on September 04, 2006, 12:15:26 AM
Nice! You'll definately have to change the name from "Dirty Vision".

Mutt
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on September 10, 2006, 08:30:18 PM
A combination of restoration and deconstruction today, I painted the lower triple clamp after I carefully wrapped plastic around the taper bearings to keep them clean. I also repainted, for the final time, the fork lower I've been having problems with.
I took off the radiator and the wiring harness to make it easier to get to the frame and the front valve cover. I removed the valve cover, which wasn't too hard, and look at what I had to do. It looks fairly easy to check the clearences and I'll be getting the guages to do that. In the mean time, my upper triple clamp below.

Oh yes, now that the wiring harness is out, I start getting that dread of "How in the h*ll am I going to get this back together???"  I keep telling myself, you have the manual, and the Haynes guide, and this forum...

(http://members.cruzio.com/~moffetb/vision/3-clamp-9-10.jpg)
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on September 17, 2006, 09:53:21 PM
Today I got quite a bit done. The remaining fork was put together, and the front part of the frame was painted. In addition I put the upper and lower triple clamps on with the forks. It's starting to look like motorcycle again. I also tried polishing the right engine case with Mother's Aluminum polish, and it's going to take quite a bit of work to remove the years of tarnish and stuff. However, the chrome radiator tubes polished up quite nicely.

Since I had the triple clamps off, I greased the stearing head bearings. I had long ago put in tapered bearings, and they seem to be doing quite well.  I won't annoy you with the other photos here, you can look at them on my website if you want.

(http://members.cruzio.com/~moffetb/vision/engine-9-17.jpg)
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: glennw on September 17, 2006, 10:17:43 PM
Brian...
Next time we see you I don't think we will know it's your V....
Maybe the CROV spring run?
or at least the 25th V meeting in CO?
Nice to see you are doing it right!
GlennW
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on September 17, 2006, 10:19:48 PM
Next time we see you I don't think we will know it's your V....

Yeah, I'll create a new account and act like a newbie  ;D  My goal is to have it running (barring rebuilding the engine) by Jan 1, 2007.

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: h2olawyer on September 17, 2006, 10:21:09 PM
Looking great, Brian.  Hope to see it out here next June!

H2O
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on September 27, 2006, 09:47:09 AM
I spent quite a bit of time, probably an hour, cleaning most of the front wheel. I took a scrubbing pad to the gold portions, and with the exception of some nooks and crannies, returned the gold to almost new. After I finished with the scrubbing, some mother aluminum polish on the non-gold parts brought those to a real shine.

I also finished putting the bike back on the front end. This means I was able to take out the engine support which had been keeping the bike from falling over since July 23rd. 2 months later and the Vision is supporting itself all over again.

I'm almost done with painting the frame, I have to do the center section and the swing arm. I finished painting the W-mount and the removable support that goes on the right side of the engine.

Sometime soon, I'll be checking the valves for clearences and checking the compression in the cylinders.
(http://members.cruzio.com/~moffetb/vision/wheel-9-24.jpg)
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: haunter on September 28, 2006, 03:00:05 PM
she is looking GREAT!

if I can rent some good garage space this winter, I hope to paint the swingarm and shaft drive unit............maybe paint the front forks if I still am stuck with 82 forks
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on September 28, 2006, 03:05:39 PM
Yeah, I'm pleased with it so far.  And since I just got back one of my other projects (one I didn't want to be, but an accident forced the issue)...  I can now concentrate on getting the Vision done without worrying about my daily driver.

(http://members.cruzio.com/~moffetb/vision/RX7.jpg)

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: haunter on September 28, 2006, 03:53:53 PM
nice FC!  VERY clean  S3 4 or 5?  I can't tell that much of the differences on those  ;D

my buddy has an 89 Turbo II he has done some minor work too.....



Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on September 28, 2006, 04:09:19 PM
FC Series 4.  1987 base model, I purchased it from the dealer in December 1986.

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: haunter on September 28, 2006, 04:42:18 PM
FC Series 4.  1987 base model, I purchased it from the dealer in December 1986.

Brian

no wonder she looks so cherry!

how did you go about painting the swingarm?  just clean and paint over the powdercoat, strip it, or just rough it up?
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on September 28, 2006, 04:57:55 PM
I haven't painted the swingarm yet.  I'll clean it, wrap parts in plastic to keep the paint from getting in there, scrub with a scrubbing pad to roughen up the paint, and then paint it with gloss black appliance paint.  It seems to be doing a good job with all of the other parts I've painted on my Vision.  The swingarm will probably be all I do one day.

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on October 02, 2006, 02:34:53 PM
Well, my camera needed to go into the shop, so I don't have pictures.  I'll borrow one and put some in here.

However, I carefully masked off the rear swing arm, scrubbed it down as best as I could (okay, who ordered the rain for California!) and then painted the swing-arm.  I masked off the actual drive shaft, I'll take care of that another day.  I had so much blue tape and newspaper on it to try and keep from painting parts I didn't want.  I was able to get it painted, except for the cross-member where the swing arm connects to the frame.  I may not get to that, it's pretty difficult.

I also put the handlebars back on the bike, along with the instrument cluster.  While doing this, I noticed I had the ignition cluster 180 degrees out.  Easy fix. 

I've got progressive forks on order now from denniskirk, along with brake pads for the front.  Any order over 100.00 is free shipping (and 103.00 is over 100 :-) )

Once I put the progressives in, I'll seal up the front end with 15 wt oil, and that part will be done. I think the next thing to happen will be the drive shaft and clean up the rear wheel so it can go back on.  I need to pick up a bunch of cotter pins to replace the ones I removed.  I also am still considering a new rear shock, but we'll see how that one works out. 

Brian

Here's a picture that shows the difference between painted and non-painted areas.  The drive-train and mid frame have not been painted, the rest has.  Mostly it's a matter of careful masking to make sure over-spray doesn't get to someplace.  If possible, I would have had the frame powder-coated, but this seems to work fairly well.

(http://members.cruzio.com/~moffetb/vision/Vision-10-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on October 06, 2006, 06:52:26 PM
Got my progressive springs.  Silly me also ordered one set of brake pads.


For a 1983 vision, with dual front brakes...

Doh.
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on October 08, 2006, 04:16:27 PM
9 ounces each fork, slightly less actually because the Progressive forks take up a bit more room. 5.5 inches of distance between the top of the fork and the top of the oil. I picked up a battery filler which happens to fit into the forks, and is 5.5 inches from the tip to where it fits in. I filled the forks more than 5.5 inches, and then sucked out all I could with the filler. It looks like a thin turkey baster. After I did that, I put in the progressive forks, extended the front forks so I could put on the top caps, tightened everything down to the correct torques, and the front forks are now complete.

If I have time, I'll paint the drive train, clean the rear wheel and put it back on.
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on October 15, 2006, 06:55:55 PM
Well, today I painted the drive train, greased up the spline for the rear wheel, and put it back on. I would have pictures, but my camera is in the shop.  Needless to say, it's good to have it on two wheels again.

I had put on the rear shock, but I ended up taking it off again to remove the rear valve cover.  I checked the valves, and according to the shop manual, the exhaust is supposed to be between .16 and .20 mm, the intake is supposed to be between .11 and .15 mm.

My front cylinder, the one with the problem, measured .115 and .12 on the intake valves, and .160 and .17 on the exhaust valves.
My rear cylinder, the one carrying the load, measured .11 and .12 on the intake, and .16 and .13 on the exhaust. 

I need to swap out a rear shim, but the front is good (minimal, but good.)  I could easily swap out and get more clearance on each of them, they're on the low side, but according to the manual it's not necessary.  I'm suspect there is a little lee-way so the .13 is probably not going to cause problems.  I'll be swapping it out anyway because it's out of spec.

Anyone willing to lend/rent me their valve tool?

Thanks,
Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Lucky on October 15, 2006, 07:02:19 PM
I will Brian, but if i don't get it back i swear i'll hunt you down!  8) (i think Dave is pulling his engine this winter & wants to do his then) & one condition

I have some shims you can use too, anything you take out, please replace with something else (i'm sure i'll end up with a bag of useless shims at some point, lol)

Be aware that a long time ago there was a thread that pointed out how the factory shim chart was wrong & to use the Haynes manual instead...

since the tool is made of 'unobtainium' you need to PM me about this.

Thanks, --Lucky
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on October 20, 2006, 12:09:14 PM
I don't know if anyone had linked to my previous site, but I've changed the URL.  I've decided it is actually *cheaper*  ( ??? ) for me to have someone else host my sites than it is for me to.

Wow, electricity is expensive!

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: kwells on October 20, 2006, 01:01:30 PM
guess I should add painting the frame to my winter Blackie project too...hmm that should do it...oh wait...and the stator....doh
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on October 20, 2006, 01:35:32 PM
If you can pull the engine, painting the frame will go a lot faster.  Just make sure you clean everything really well and rouch up the surface well.

But you probably know all of this :)
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: kwells on October 20, 2006, 01:53:02 PM
I'd like not to pull the engine...considering that all this work will be done in my girlfriend's parent's garage.  have to kind of keep my presence on the down low lest I be heeve hoed.
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on October 22, 2006, 08:15:40 PM
Today was brake day. Other than paint a small portion of the frame and the rear-brake bracing, I pulled apart the front brakes and rebuilt them. Rather than use compressed air, I used grease to push the brake piston out. Cleaning out the grease isn't difficult with a good set of latex goves and some brake cleaner. The piston was trashed, it was not useable, so I was glad that I ordered a new one for each brake.

I basically set up a little tray to catch parts in. First I pulled out the sliding caliper (on the wheel side). This allowed me a bit more room to get at the brake piston. I put a temporary bolt into the banjo-bolt thread to keep the grease from coming out. I opened up the bleeder valve and starting filling the brake with grease. Slowly, the piston started coming out. Once I heard the hiss of air, I knew that the piston was as far out as it was going to be.

From here, I cleaned out most of the grease with my finger. I pulled out the inner two seals (which were completely trashed) and then cleaned the inside with brake cleaner and a rag. I made sure to clean out the banjo bolt and bleeder valve of grease. Everything looked good, and I put the two new seals into the brake. I lubed them up with brake fluid, lubed the piston with brake fluid and pushed it back in slightly. I grabbed a dowel, and slowly pushed the piston into the cylinder. I pushed it in just about as far as it could go and left it there.

I put some grease on the sliders (see repair manual on what kind) and put them together. Using a vise with plastic heads, I pushed the sliders together until they were almost all of the way in. The new rubber boots fit into the chamber, and then slip over grooves cut into the sliders. Once I got these together, I put the brake pads in, and installed them on the bike. Other than not having brake pads for the right side, it went exactly the same but faster.  Brake pads will be ordered soon.

Interesting enough, the manual says to replace the rubber boots about every 2 years. It had been 20 since mine were replaced. Replacing them is easy enough, take a look at your rubber boots.
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on October 31, 2006, 12:58:24 PM
It was late when I came home, and upon my doorstop I saw a small package.
"What could this be", I pondered, "so close to halloween?
Could it be a trick, could it be a treat, only one way to be seen."
Opening the door, and bringing the package in, I carefully unwrapped it.
Pulling the tattered paper out, meant to protect some precious treasure,
I saw a glint, a glint better than silver or gold.

I carefully dropped the talisman in my hand,
held it up to the light to see.
It is truely magnificent, a thing of beauty
the combination of smooth curves and angular edges,
it must be worth a fortune.

There were no imperfections visible on it.
The metal must be very rare, perhaps that most rarest, unobtanium.
The metal that will provide light when all is black,
The mere mention of this metal, mortals dream of more than platinum.

My cats wrapped around my feet, wanting to see the toy.
The lights went out, for no apparent reason,
I stepped back and dropped the talisman, but I shouldn't have worried.
There in the darkness I could see it, as it glowed with its own power.
Picking it up, I could see there was an inscription on it,
one I had not seen before.

With my old eyes, I peered at the words and read the truth

Four Valves for each cylinder in a V,
Shims of Eight in the lifters of steel,
Two Covers to keep the black elixir in,
One gasket each to keep the engine clean,
In the Engine of Vision where the powers lie.
One Tool to tune them all, One Tool to align,
One Tool to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the Engine of Vision where the powers lie.

Thanks Lucky.
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: YellowJacket! on October 31, 2006, 06:31:59 PM
Now THATS poetry!   ;D ;D ;D ;D

David
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on November 04, 2006, 09:03:07 PM
Today was exhaust valve day.  All of my exhaust valves, save one, had > .152 mm and < .178 mm clearance on them.  The one that was less was around .102 mm.  I pulled all of the shims off the exhaust valves, and all of them were 250s (2.50 mm thick) except for the .102 mm valve.  That had a 255 shim in it.  Digging through Lucky's pile of shims, I found a 250 shim and slid it into that seat.  Now that exhaust valve has is the same as the rest, between .152 and .178 mm.  Since going to the next smaller shim would dump it to .202, which is outside the limits, I'll leave them at 250s.  Convenient that they all are the same size.

Tomorrow, I might try the intake shims.  I may have one intake that is tight on the rear cylinder.

I want to seriously berate the person who came up with this shim method!  They are a pain in the a** to replace.  And the exhaust ones are easier!

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: dminor on November 04, 2006, 09:16:10 PM
Keep going Brian,
   Remember we are going riding in December.
Don ;)
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: zore on November 04, 2006, 09:17:31 PM
Having done the valves on my ducati which has openers and closers and the triumph which has a 4v I3, the vision don't seem too bad.
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on November 06, 2006, 01:09:26 PM
The tight intake shim was on the rear cylinder, on the right side (sitting on the bike).  It had a 260 shim in it, and putting the 255 from my exhaust made the tolerances much better.  Then came putting the valve cover gasket back on.  Geez. I also discovered that the manuals are slightly incorrect.  They say that the shim will pop off.  Not quite.  I heard a pop, and figured that I could pull out the shim.  Nope, it took a second pop.  The first sound was the oil seal (surface tension) breaking, and the second was the shim popping out of the bucket.  Once I realized this, everything went much easier.

I lubed up the new gasket cover to hold it into place while I tried to maneuver the cover into place over the radiator line.  1 hour later I realized that was not going to work.  And the radiator line was frozen into place from being there for so long.  Out came the knife. I cut off the radiator line (I was probably going to replace it before this point) and the valve cover slid into place.  With a bit of wriggling, the gasket also slid into the right locations and I bolted it down.

The rear cylinder is finished off, and thankfully when I was turing the engine over I could not hear any sounds of leaks.  Since it was the front cylinder that had the problem, I'll be looking into that one next weekend.  It doesn't have any tight valves, so it should go together fairly easily.  (I think I just jinxed myself...)

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on December 03, 2006, 11:09:41 AM
Unfortunately a bad cold knocked me out for the previous week, and I wasn't able to work on the bike. This week however I rebuilt the master cylinder for the brakes. In order to do this, I had to drill out the bolts (4mm if anyone is interested...) and remove them with hemostats once I had the top pulled off. The master cylinder is now on the bike and set for fluid and brake lines. All that is left on the frame is the center section under the battery box. Next week is Thanksgiving and I'll be out of town. I hope to have the replacement radiator hose figured out.
(http://members.cruzio.com/~moffetb/vision/master-11-18.jpg)

(This was actually done on the 18th of November, I'll be posting a new entry today about the compression check, and the radiator line)
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Night Vision on December 03, 2006, 11:31:23 AM
those are really nice pics and a great write up on the restore on your website. I'm sure it'll help those of us that are "one step"  ::) behind you
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on December 04, 2006, 04:27:59 PM
On Saturday, I decided to measure the compression ratio of the front and back cylinder.  Since the bike had not been run a while, I put light-weight oil into the cylinders and turned them over (connected the battery directly to the starter.)  I measured the back cylinder first and got a variety of readings from 120 to 150 (!)  If you do the math, 150 is about as good as these can get.  I felt rather frustrated with this, so I decided to charge the battery and think about what I wanted to accomplish and how to do it.  While thinking I painted the last bit of frame below where the battery box is.  The frame is completely painted now, barring some areas I couldn't get to because of the engine.

Sunday I went out with a plan.  I had let the cylinders sit overnight, so any excess oil would drain off.  If you do the math, the cylinders compress the air down to less than 1/8 of a cup.  There isn't a lot of room in there.  I pulled off the rag protecting the carb mouths, opened the throttle bodies fully, plugged in the compression guage, let the cylinder spin for a couple of times with the escape valve open.  Then I closed the guage escape valve and went through 8 revolutions.  I did this for both front and rear cylinders:

rear cylinder: 121 PSI
front cylinder: 119 PSI.

I reproduced this twice for each cylinder. While low, they are within a reasonable range.  More importantly, they are close together and show me that the valves were probably not the problem I encountered in Paso Robles.  If I go by my airplane, I could probably lose another 5-10 PSI before I need to rebuild it.  (lose 25 % of pressure).   You won't catch me doing 115 mph runs on this engine though without a tail-wind!  (and yes, they're still higher-compression than my airplane's cylinders...)

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: zore on December 04, 2006, 08:36:01 PM
I have 2 compression gauges and have never really used them.  I'm always afraid of what I'll find. :)
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Lucky on December 04, 2006, 08:58:19 PM
I went back & read the original post (you have to put "xz" infront on "index" on the URL) & i'm thinking you may have had more of a carb problem. the symptoms sound sickly familiar..

one cyl (probably front if you want to go by the mechanics 'squirt' test) probably had a float stick open. if for some reason the fuel was drawn into the engine instead of out the overflow tube (high vacuume?) it could suck everything out that the pump could provide, cleaning the plug off too (you may only see a wet plug, or if the problem semi-cleared itself up, not even that)

one drowning cyl would would explane the power loss too...

fuel starvation would produce similar symptoms, but doesn't explane the rapid fuel loss...

was it raining? would you have noticed fuel from the overflows if it was?...
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on December 05, 2006, 12:53:37 AM
I had the bike running on an off-ramp for a while, and it had not started raining yet.  I didn't see any fuel coming out of the over-flow tubes, and if the float were stuck that would probably cause more of a problem at low RPM rather than high RPM?

Obviously we'll eventually find out (or not  ::) )  In the end, which I can see coming now, I will have rebuilt front brakes (got the braided lines today), rebuilt forks, painted frame, progressive forks, and many upgrades I've been meaning to do for quite a while.  I hope I can pin the problem on one thing, and I've got a couple of different things that "may" have caused the problem.  If I have a problem when I get it rebuilt, then the problem falls into the carbs and I'll rebuild them as well. 

Maybe it's because I'm tired, but this posting is reading a bit harsh.  I don't mean it to be, I really appreciate the advice I get here.  I store it in my head and when the time comes I investigate whether that was the problem or not.  And the list is getting smaller by the week.

Brian (and thanks, I fixed the link in the beginning...)
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on December 09, 2006, 07:58:30 PM
I received a set of Galfer Braided brake lines for the Vision, a two-line system. Today they went on and the bleeding began. Since the old system was a three-line system, the brake lines had to be routed a different path. The old system had a single line that went to a junction in the middle of the forks. From there two lines went to the brakes. The new system has a dual-banjo bolt at the master cylinder, and one line to each brake.

The image at the far left is the center section of the bike that has been recently painted. Pretty much the entire frame has now been painted. I have to do some clean up work on the engine itself, polishing and cleaning, but the bike is looking quite nice now.

And amusingly enough, I need to replace the brake lever because the paint is starting to chip off of it. This on a motorcycle that has never been in an accident in the entire 23 years of its life.
And since the bike was going together, I wanted to put some body-work on, so the front fender went on. I wheeled the vision out of the garage for a shot or two, then back in because it was starting to rain...

(http://members.cruzio.com/~moffetb/vision/Master-12-9.jpg)
(http://members.cruzio.com/~moffetb/vision/Vision-12-9.jpg)
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on December 16, 2006, 07:45:15 PM
They said it was going to rain, so I stayed home and worked on the Vision rather than going to the airport and going flying. Needless to say it didn't rain, but I got a lot of work done on the bike...

My goal for today was to get the main wiring harness back into the bike. Not connected yet to anything, but set up and ready for connections. You can see in the image to the left, portions of the wiring harness hanging off the bike. I made sure that it was in there and not interfering with the various cables that I also installed. I now have the starter cable (otherwise called choke), the cluthc cable and the throttle cable connected.

I also cut with a very sharp finely serrated knife the heater hose I use to replace my main radiator line to the back cylinder. I attached the molded line to the cylinder, routed it out to the right side of the bike, and then attached the heater hose to that. The entire thing went into the brackets on the frame and then to the front radiator T. You can see how this is routed and how it looks in the middle and right photos. I've enhanced the lighting in photoshop to make it more obvious. I want to put some clamps on where the join is, but it looks pretty good and doesn't seem to get in the way of anything at all. The parts for the radiator hose are:
part number GoodYear 63244.
a 3/4 to 3/4 coupler
3/4 heater hose about 16 inches (it will be cut down)

(http://members.cruzio.com/~moffetb/vision/wire-bits-12-16.jpg) (http://members.cruzio.com/~moffetb/vision/radiator_hose2-12-16.jpg) (http://members.cruzio.com/~moffetb/vision/radiator_hose-12-16.jpg)
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: supervision on December 16, 2006, 08:02:00 PM
  Hey, those  hose splices workout perfect behind the hangers.. Good fit.   Looks stock     The whole bike looks clean and restored, nice job Brian!
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on December 16, 2006, 08:10:40 PM
Yeah, I put on the fairing brackets without sanding/painting them.  (the ones by the engine)  I feel dirty and guilty about that...
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: supervision on December 16, 2006, 08:34:19 PM
  You better re-do them, or you'll always bethinking you should have.. Damm Brian, I remember when you used to just ride the thing then park it by a sprinkler if it was too dirty.
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on December 20, 2006, 08:11:27 PM
Yesterday and today (I'm taking this week and next off of work on vacation), I polished up some aluminum, not quite a shiny as Kevin's in http://ridersofvision.net/forum/xzindex.php?topic=5772.0 (http://ridersofvision.net/forum/xzindex.php?topic=5772.0) but shiny enough for right now.  I've been putting the vision back together, working from the back to the front.  Most of the electrical in the rear end has been put back in, I am looking at making the running light modification that Lucky made http://www.xz550.com/turnsignals.html (http://www.xz550.com/turnsignals.html)

My arms are tired, but the bike is starting to look less like a wreck and more like a bike...

Brian (woo hoo, 600 posts  :) )

(http://members.cruzio.com/~moffetb/vision/Rear-12-20.jpg)
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Night Vision on December 20, 2006, 09:10:54 PM
did something happen to the links to your site?
used to have the full story and pics.. now it don't  ???
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on December 20, 2006, 09:32:47 PM
I haven't put this latest one up on the site yet, but the rest is there.  My old site changed, the new site is in my signature.

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Night Vision on December 20, 2006, 09:44:15 PM
maybe it's me, but this is all I see with the first link...

My bike is a 1983 Yamaha Vision, purchased new in April of 1986. I put over 40,000 miles on this bike until March 31, 2006. On that date, on a trip to meet other California Riders of Vision members, the front cylinder lost power outside of Paso Robles. You can read the full story of how we managed to get the bike back home.

At the right is a photo taken of my Vision in 2001, it has a Corbin Saddle on it, but otherwise is stock. After the break down, I am now going through the Vision and repairing quite a few things that I wanted to repair, but it was still running. I'll also be including pictures and commentary here about the repairs and things I find wrong. While I refer to this work as a restoration, it will not be a frame up restoration.

second link is the full story
 
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on December 20, 2006, 10:08:30 PM
Try a different browser.  I have a javascript thing in there that is legal, but your browser may be dropping out?

Brian

Argh.  I hate Internet explorer sometimes....
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Night Vision on December 21, 2006, 07:32:45 AM
my bad, works on my computer at work  ???
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: supervision on December 21, 2006, 07:58:56 AM
   Hey Brian!, you missed a spot!,   the side of your license light bracket is post toasty.     Probably been nice weather in Santa Cruz ?   Maybe you can have that thing ready for the  Vampire's  NAKED ride, comming pretty soon....  maybe some pictures of the NAKED ride
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on December 22, 2006, 08:06:43 PM
Ugh, three hours later and the exhaust system has been put back on with new head junction gaskets, new copper crush gaskets, and new clamps on the down-tube to Y-connectors.

Also, no one picked up from the photos that I forgot to put the brake line guides on the front end!  ::)

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: supervision on December 22, 2006, 08:57:54 PM
  I know what you mean on the exhaust, anything not perfect and you can't put it together.   You gona be ready for the Vampire's Naked ride?, comming soon.....
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Superfly on December 23, 2006, 10:02:35 AM
Brian,

That is really starting to look good (and the SS lines on the front make a HUGE difference!)  It's a lot of work, but it will definately be worth it!
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on December 31, 2006, 09:08:12 PM
Happy New Years Eve.

I had to get something different on the vision before the end of the new year. 

I spent about an hour putting the radiator back on (that thing just needs to be put in just so, or it doesn't want to fit!).  But I was able to get it on, and all the appropriate routing for the hoses, overflow lines,  and fan electrical.

After that, out came the wiring diagram and the routing diagrams.  Carefully making sure I was putting the correct connectors on the proper ends, I carefully plugged everything back in. I ran into a couple of oddities, the odd connector at the back of where the tank sits that I couldn't figure out where it goes (it goes to the fuel sender), and the blue/red line that appears in the fairing harness and doesn't seem to go to anything, it just comes out of the harness!  Most importantly, I wrapped some of the bundles that the plastic was getting frayed with new cable-harness (plastic spiral binding).  I verified everything was in order, and at 4:20 pm, put the battery in. I switched the key and things came on.  The oil pressure light came on, when I flipped the high-beam switch, the high-beam indicator came on.  The turn signals flashed (well, once, I only had the back ones on.)  And the brake light came on when I applied the brakes (both front and back!)

Only one hitch.  The neutral light stayed off.  No matter what I did. I verified the bulb was good with an ohm-meter.  It could be the actual switch, I'm not sure.   By that time it was getting too dark to really tell colors in the garage any more.  So, I left the battery box and TCI hanging from the frame and called it a day (the battery was removed).

But it was good to see lights turn on at the end of 2006.

Happy New Year everyone.

Brian (my cats tell me it's time for some scotch)
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Lucky on December 31, 2006, 09:24:33 PM
& it's really easy to swap the oil pressure & nuetral wires by mistake too, but i forget if that turns the light on or keeps it off...
RED for oil
Blue for neutral

--Lucky
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: MotorPlow on January 01, 2007, 09:45:16 AM
Would a bad Neutral Safety Switch cause the neutral light not to illuminate as the switch is saying the bike is still in gear? (Just a thought)
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Walt_M. on January 01, 2007, 09:52:26 AM
It would, but I would guess adjustment or connection if it was working before the disassembly phase. If the oil pressure and neutral were swapped, the oil pressure would act like the neutral indicator and go out when the transmission is in gear.
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on January 01, 2007, 10:42:37 AM
I don't think I swapped them, I pulled off the wiring harness main-line but kept the other peripheral lines on the bike.  I'll have to check though.  Good thought on the seeing if the oil-warning light goes out when it's in gear :-)

If it is the actual switch, I think that basically means I need to always pull in the clutch when starting, something I always did anyway...

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on January 06, 2007, 09:25:25 PM
Today was the day to put the rest of the electrical back together. Main goal, in amongst not doing anything wrong because I was on allergy medication, was to figure out why the neutral light would not come on. The first thing I did was to verify the switch itself worked. In order to reach the switch, you have to take off the kickstand mounting system, and the shifter linkage mechanism. Once that is off, it's a clear shot to the screw that connects the wire to the switch. I pulled off the wire, cleaned it well, and verified that the switch worked fine.

After that was done, I followed the line back up into the main cavity between the battery and TCI, where all the electrons go zipping about. Because several lines follow the bottom of the crankshaft, this was fairly difficult. I noted that the neutral switch wire and the oil pressure wire were in the same connector, not seperate connectors. I don't know if this is a difference between the RJ and RK models. I followed the line up and found the other end of the connector. I disconnected it and verified that the wire was not broken in between there. Odd, it appeared that the other side of the connector went back down into the engine along the crankcase. I followed it, and indeed it did. I had connected the oil pressure/neutral connection to the sidestand switch.

I went to the right side of the bike, and started looking for where the other connectors were supposed to be. It took me a while, but I did track them down. Connecting the correct connectors, I then reconnected the battery, and turned the key. The photo tells the final tale. I was actually able to turn over the engine by pressing the starter button, but with no fuel, there was no way it was going to start.

(http://members.cruzio.com/~moffetb/vision/lights-1-6.jpg)
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on January 15, 2007, 08:22:48 PM
(http://members.cruzio.com/~moffetb/vision/wires-1-15.jpg)The wires have been contained, repeat, the wires have been contained. Needless to say, I did some careful looking at the wire-routing diagram for the 1983, and the basic idea is to separate the two main bundles into left and right of the brake line connection.  I left mine on, even though I now have the two-line system from Galfer, just so I don't lose it.

I also added in the anti-freeze, which took a while.  I would add some, wipe up the spill, wait a while, add some more.  I undid the bleed on top of the Tee behind the radiator, and that went fairly easily.  I occasionally ran the starter to get the water pump working.  Finally, after about 3/4 of a gallon, the level in the radiator didn't drop at all.  I wrapped teflon tape around the bleeder nut and put it back in.

And, finally, I spent some time sanding and painting the frame that the fairing connects to.  You can't see it, but it's hanging from my garage door opener rails by bungie cords.

I went to pick up a fuse block (actually two) but the local Kragen was out of them.  I want to attach one under the fairing for miscellaneous devices (like my voltage gauge)

Oh yes, and the horn works fine, Thanks Tiger :-)

Brian

P.S. my bike is still mostly original, but it's getting more pieces from other bikes on it.  I'm waiting for my shorty-stalks to come in, to see how they work out!

Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Tiger on January 16, 2007, 05:51:24 AM
 8)...Your welcome, Brian... ;) Nice to follow along with your thread's. Your doing a great job, it'll be great to see the finished "article"... 8) Let me know if you need anything else.

               
8).......TIGER....... 8)

                 
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on January 21, 2007, 09:45:16 PM
A good and bad day...

I looked everything over and decided I was able to safely start the bike.  I had found a radiator leak at the new hose where it meets the T just beyond the radiator.  Just a small amount of fluid on the ground, but noticeable.  I pulled the hose back somewhat and wrapped the junction with teflon tape, then put the hose back on.  Clean things up, wait a little while and there was no more leak.

So I had been charging the battery all day Saturday while I was working on my plane (it needed to have the rudder trim cleaned out so it would work better.)  I tested the voltage this morning and it was at 12.7 after sitting all night.  I put the tank back on (still cannot see any rust in the thing!) and plugged all of the tubes back in.  I did not put the air filter back on the carbs yet.  I let the bike sit for 10 minutes on prime, and verified that gas was getting in by opening the drains.

Then came the final moment.  I rolled the throttle 5 times, and punched the starter.  It turned over, but nothing.  I stopped, let the bike sit for another 5 minutes.  Rolled the throttle 5 more time, punched the starter button, and it started. 

The sound was smooth, I had gotten rid of the exhaust leak.  More like the standard mega sewing machine.  I let the bike warm up for a little while.  I slowly started revving the engine, 2000 RPM and it sounded good.  4000 and it was good.  5000 and it died suddenly.  I repeated this exact scenario twice more.

The carbs are now off the bike.

Brian

(http://members.cruzio.com/~moffetb/vision/Carbs-1-21.jpg)
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Night Vision on January 21, 2007, 10:33:20 PM
that sucks but don't be sad  :(

just taking a bike down that far down and getting it to start back up is an accomplishment.

sounds to me like you're better off than you were..

if you hurry, there is an eBay auc for an 83 carb kit going off in less than a day. seems like there were bunches of the 83 carb and pump kits a week or two back...

if you win that auc, ask sirius for another at the same price, tell them you want a fuel pump kit, and combined shipping too!!  they'll work with ya

even if the carb is not the problem, you've put too much effort in the ressurrection not to rebuild them. jmho
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on January 22, 2007, 12:51:52 PM
Yup, it's definately been a "Since I'm here, I might as well..."  type of job.

Maybe since I'll be down for a while longer I'll pull the lower fairing brackets and paint them.  If I do, I think the only part left on the frame that isn't painted is the rear brake drum.. 

Hmm.  (which is not easy because of allergies!)

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Night Vision on January 22, 2007, 07:15:17 PM
just curious (and thinking out loud)

you said you cut the rev wire
you said plugs looked good back when..
you said you got an eBay TCI
you said it runs like a champ up to 4,999.99 rpms

did you have same results with both TCI's  ???
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on January 22, 2007, 07:28:22 PM
The new TCI is on the bike now.  The old one is sitting on my work bench, so since I was having a similar problem back when, my assumption is that it is not the TCI.

Also, one more clue, when revving up to 2500 or so, (higher than idle) it takes a while to drop back to idle.  The vacuum lines are all good, and I water tested the YICS.  My dad said it sounded like a problem he had with his Venture when a rubber seal split in the carb, who knows. 

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: QBS on January 22, 2007, 08:32:34 PM
Make sure your carbs are well synched and that their emulsion tubes and high speed/power jets are clean.  5000k is the transition point from the low speed fuel circuit to the high speed/power circuit.
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: h2olawyer on January 22, 2007, 08:44:33 PM
Looks like lots of "patina" on those carbs.   ;D  They would likely benefit from a little TLC.  Besides, after all the cleanup & paint you've done so far, reinstalling those carbs would be tantamount to croutons on a cow pie.   :D

H2O
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on January 23, 2007, 10:17:37 AM
Well, I won the carb rebuild kits (which I need to verify, but looks like 2 carb and 1 acc pump kit) for 10.50.

And I'm not sure "Croutons on a cow-paddy" is quite the correct order   :D

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: h2olawyer on January 23, 2007, 12:47:21 PM
Knew the order was wrong, but the sentiment seemed appropriate.   :D

Your bike is really looking great.  Now if you can just get it to run properly.  The carb & fuel pump kits should help.  Great deal on them, by the way.

H2O
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: GT @ oh. on January 26, 2007, 07:34:27 PM
I hope this means you are going to do a carb cleaning/rebuild with lots of pics and how to's  ;D
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on February 02, 2007, 05:48:03 PM
(http://members.cruzio.com/~moffetb/vision/vision-2-2.jpg)Still waiting on my carb rebuild kit, though since it was shipped to work and I haven't been there for a week, it's probably waiting for me.

The wires by the battery box are a hot and cold line that will go to a buss behind the fairing.  16 gauge wire good for 10 amps, mostly to power the new lights (55 watt x 2, not currently installed). The fairing needs cleaning still, but I wanted to verify the fit of where the new fuse box will go, along with the lights that will be below the turn-signals (I'm leaning toward that anyway.)

And I finally lost a bolt, one of the ones that hold the mirror mounts on.  ::)  Off to the hardware store I go...

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Walt_M. on February 02, 2007, 05:58:28 PM
Is that your original exhaust? Mine rotted out years ago and I got a Spec II for it, probably in '86, don't know exactly when but it was after my trip to my brother's wedding in '85.
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on February 02, 2007, 06:10:47 PM
Yeah, those are my original exhaust.  Most of the riding I do is long enough to heat up and evaporate the moisture, and the bike has been garaged its entire life.

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Walt_M. on February 02, 2007, 08:05:52 PM
That is just amazing!
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Kevin on February 02, 2007, 11:04:06 PM
Just a suggestion here, consider mounting your running lights off the fender mounting bolts, the farther away from the headlight the more distinct or eye catching they are to oncoming traffic. run the wiring alongside the brake lines.
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Walt_M. on February 03, 2007, 10:09:29 AM
Do NOT run wiring along the brake lines! If there is an electrical short it could damage the brake lines. Just think, you are riding along and a rock gets kicked up, hits your light wiring, shorts it out and burns a hole in your brake line. No lights, no brakes, now what?
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on February 03, 2007, 11:05:04 AM
thought of running the lights down by the fender, but I don't like how the wires will have to run.  I haven't completely decided yet, I still have to make mounting brackets for them.

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on February 03, 2007, 03:51:43 PM
Argh, today I went out and carefully checked to see if I could undo all of the screws on the carbs (for the float bowls, etc...)  They all came out just fine except one, the one that holds the little air-filter on to the side of the carb.  (front carb?) I didn't strip it, but even with repeated Pblaster applications it's refusing to budge.

Grr.

The float bowls look really clean, a little bit of crud in the bottom, but not bad.  Sometime soon I'll take a photo. Right now I have to get ready for a memorial service.

Brian

Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Lucky on February 03, 2007, 07:11:21 PM
Brian, it's not critical to pull that screw...nice, but not critical.  the filter comes right out of that bracket.  i've found that a good pair of small vice grips (good meaning still having proper serrations on the jaws) are good for cracking those screws free, but that one is in a very tight spot...

--Lucky
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on February 03, 2007, 07:50:17 PM
Yeah, that's what I figured, though that filter does block another screw for a bracket connecting the two carbs.  I've made a little bin to catch any parts, same one I used on the front brakes, after cleaning it up.  I haven't pulled anything out of the carbs yet, I'm waiting until I get the rebuild kits.  It was nice to be able to pull the float chambers tops off and see that they looked really good.  I'll see if I can get them as clean as the master cylinder.

Oh yes, what lines do you normally replace?  I've got some that refuse to come off and they'll probably need to be cut off.  I'm mostly worried about the 'T' line and the very sharp 'S'-curve line.  (remember, these are 83 carbs.)

Of course, after I'm finished I should just sell the thing, from that point on it will just decrease in value  :o

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Lucky on February 03, 2007, 08:00:18 PM
the T line should come off fine, if it cracks, i have plenty extras from 82 carbs.  the S line reuse if it's not dryrotted.  they seem to be in good shape generally, the only part i've seen go bad is the petcock end gets freyed.

--Lucky
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: supervision on February 05, 2007, 07:46:04 AM
     Does anyone know if you can tee the 2 fuel hoses on the 83 carb together and supply fuel from the 82 tank?  I've been cleaning up a set and that's what I'm hopeing to do.  They are comeing apart fairly good although one of the float pins is very tight,  they are pretty clean inside, I was pleasantly suprised.  Are the low speed adjuster's hidden behind those plugs with the little holes?  What's the easyest way to get kits comming to my house?
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Coil Coyle on February 05, 2007, 09:57:57 AM
SV,
     One of the hoses is supply from the pump, use that.

     The other is a return to the tank because the 83's circulate the fuel to prevent vapor lock. No one has vapor lock problems so it's probably useless under normal riding. It will leak out from the float valve supply tube in the 83 carbs so you have to plug the carbs return with your favorite method.

$0.02
 ;)
Coil

Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on February 05, 2007, 01:25:38 PM
Woo hoo, got my carb rebuild kits.

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Lucky on February 05, 2007, 04:52:57 PM
SV,
     One of the hoses is supply from the pump, use that.

     The other is a return to the tank because the 83's circulate the fuel to prevent vapor lock. No one has vapor lock problems so it's probably useless under normal riding. It will leak out from the float valve supply tube in the 83 carbs so you have to plug the carbs return with your favorite method.

$0.02
 ;)
Coil



just don't plug up the overflow tubes or you'll be washing your cylinders in gasoline.. btdt
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Lucky on February 05, 2007, 05:02:04 PM
quote author=supervision link=topic=4802.msg51156#msg51156 date=1170679564]
       Are the low speed adjuster's hidden behind those plugs with the little holes? [/quote]

yup
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Tiger on February 05, 2007, 05:11:23 PM
    What's the easyest way to get kits comming to my house?

 :) The Sirius ones on eeeee-bay will come right to your front door...good people to deal with, either thro' e-bay or direct... 8)

                             
8).......TIGER....... 8)
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on February 05, 2007, 05:37:31 PM
the S line reuse if it's not dryrotted.

Looks like it's going to have to be cut off....  Look in Kragen for a part or just order it?  Discuss :-)

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: supervision on February 05, 2007, 08:34:44 PM
  Brian you could try hot water to soften the old hoses  Tiger, now I remember you posted about the kits a few days ago, thanks   thanks Lucky, thanks Coil      2mm larger should = more speed   
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on February 17, 2007, 10:56:34 PM
Quite a few of the lines had to be cut off (the T line came off no problem).  The small lines that run between the carbs needed to be cut off as well.  Thankfully, fuel line is pretty darned flexible and I don't think there will be any problems.  I've been removing peripheral items and cleaning them up as I remove them.  I now have the carbs as two separate pieces and will clean them one at a time.

I'll also probably drill out the screw to the little air filter so I can replace it, since I have the carbs sitting on my work bench...

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on February 25, 2007, 08:28:44 PM
The past few weeks have been busy for me, so I catch time to work on the bike when I can. One of the things I've been doing is putting in an electrical panel behind the dash. I've put in a 4-fuse block, and a 4 ground block. I tried to find a fuse block that takes blade type fuses, but have been completely unsuccesful. So, I used the normal old fuses. Since that panel doesn't move, and that area doesn't get wet no matter what the weather, I think it will work out fine. I haven't put in a main line fuse from the battery to the fuse block, rather the first (top in photo) acts as the main fuse and then the others are pulled off of that. I'm not sure I won't redesign this in the future, but it looks solid.

The switch at the top of the panel is for the running lights, It is tucked up under the fairing itself a little bit, but it can be reached while in riding position. Turns out that the instructions I received were incorrect, they had the switch wired backwards. I wasn't sure, so I tested, and I'm thankful.

And finally, I completely cleaned and fixed up the fuel pump from the carbs using the "Keyster Carb Kit" I received from Ebay.
(http://members.cruzio.com/~moffetb/vision/dash-back-2-25.jpg)
(http://members.cruzio.com/~moffetb/vision/fuel-pump-2-25.jpg)

Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Night Vision on February 25, 2007, 10:28:57 PM

I tried to find a fuse block that takes blade type fuses, but have been completely unsuccesful.

yeah, they aren't easy
to find. I got two from
        PEP BOYS
a year or so ago... then they
went out of stock.. I decided
to try another Pep Boys..
sure enough they had two of them...
the shelf tag said $15 some odd cents
which is what I paid for the other two.

went to check out....
$2.29 !!!!!!!!!!


"well, better ring me for two, there sweetie"...

oops... problem.. the second scan came up
$4.20... "sorry"....

"oh, ok... if that's right than I'll take two... I guess...."  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


and no...
the spare
is
 mine
  mine
   mine......  >:(
 
 
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: GT @ oh. on February 26, 2007, 08:11:41 AM
What condition was the pump in would you say...... definitly in need of cleaning and rebuild or did it just because you could??
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on February 26, 2007, 10:15:03 AM
The pump was actually in good condition, some discoloration of the internal diaphragms, but the valve appeared to be in great condition.  Given how difficult they were to get out and back in (replaced) I should have just stuck with the old ones and just replaced the diaphragms.  The gaskets were okay, it was better to replace those.

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: GT @ oh. on February 26, 2007, 12:32:48 PM
I hope there are lots of pics forthcoming...... because....... I am going to have to tear into mine and would like to know what to expect.Mine is starting and idling fine.... cruising is fine too...... but try to jump on it and it just gives up....not the normal V stumble which I recall as a brief stumble then getty-up.I don't think the "stealer" guy knew what he was doing ( I know he didn't ) cause when I was asking him what he had done to clean the carbs.... he was like.... I guess I could check the mains now that I know where they are at.....and when I ask if he checked the jets....he was like....I don't think this carb has air jets. Great huh...you'd think someone doing it for a living would know more than that.....I was wrong....so for those who are thinking of going to "stealer" to fix your ride .....don't! I'm thinking mains or accel.pump.... since it only acts up when you throttle up.....good place to start me thinks... what do you all think??
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Tiffanator on February 26, 2007, 02:22:29 PM
Hi Brian, I have followed your progress through this and I must say I'm inspired. I'm trying to get mine to at least light up and crank, then I'll do the same thing you are doing here.
About your electrical panel under the dash.. this interests me.  What all do you have fused and wired up there? Is this taking the place of the rats nest in the headlight box?  I have been trying to think of a way to fabricate a fuse panel that holds the mini-blade fuses. 
Tiff
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on February 26, 2007, 02:32:59 PM
No, it doesn't take the place of the rats nest (mine isn't in the headlight, the 83s had a rubber "baggy" to hold it all in).  I have in mind at least 2 things for the fuse block:

 a set of small running lights mounted under the turn signals, 55w each which will help during the daylight and probably at night as well.
 a voltmeter/clock mounted on the dash (which I have to find first, I think it's in a tank bag!)

I am leaning toward having each light on it's own fuse rather than both sharing a single fuse, but since I'm not at that stage of wiring yet I haven't committed to one way or the other.  The image shows the fuse block on the left and what I am using as a ground block on the right. Each of these has a line going directly to the battery.  Like some other people, I'll probably put in a relay to turn this system on when the key is turned on (eventually). 

One thing I still need to do is to put in connectors so I can pull the dash off without having to reach under it to undo the hot and ground lines.  That's an easy thing to do so I left it until I finalize the wiring layout.

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: h2olawyer on February 26, 2007, 02:56:35 PM
I have a similar setup behind my fairing.  Didn't attach the fuse block & ground strip to the dash - used the fairing frame & zip ties.  So far, I have a voltmeter, auxilliary lights and power port (to run a helmet camera & GPS) wired into it.  Mine is wired direct to the battery without a relay (yet) as well.  It has an inline 30A fuse in the main + wire.  Makes adding new accessories very easy.  No need to tap into the existing, fragile wiring harness and the wire runs are short.  Found the blade type fuse box & negative strip at AutoZone.

H2O
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on February 26, 2007, 04:11:03 PM
Didn't attach the fuse block & ground strip to the dash - used the fairing frame & zip ties. 

Yeah, thought of that, I may end up doing that anyway.  It's fairly moveable under there.  I decided I wanted to be able to pull the entire "sub-panel" off in one piece.

I tried 4 different auto and electronics stores in my area, no one had a blade-type fuse block over the last 2 months of trying...

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: h2olawyer on February 26, 2007, 04:45:31 PM
I can check if AutoZone here has any more of them next time I'm near there.  If they do, I'll pick one up & send it to you.  They're inexpensive.  As I recall, it has 6 circuits.  There's a stud & nut to attach the power lead which feeds three fused circuits on each side of the fuseblock.  Each circuit takes a new style flat fuse and has a male spade terminal to attach the wire for the accessory.

Next time I have the fairing off, I'll take photos of my installation.  The parts jiggle a little bit, but it takes a fair amount of force to get them to actually move.  I'll probably do some tweaking to make it more secure and find a good circuit in the headlight bucket to use for the relay so the aux circuits turn on & off with the key.  That way, I can attach the voltmeter to it & not worry about draining the battery.  Forgot that I decided not to hook up the voltmeter to it yet for that very reason.  However, it will make a great place to get the power as the fuseblock & ground strip are fed by 10 gauge wire.  Shouldn't have much voltage loss with just a couple connectors & a relay between the battery & the voltmeter.

H2O
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on February 26, 2007, 05:38:12 PM
I can check if AutoZone here has any more of them next time I'm near there.  If they do, I'll pick one up & send it to you. 

Thanks, not a big hurry obviously :-)

I decided to use 16 gauge wire rather than 10 gauge, because I didn't see me drawing more than 10 amps from the thing.  However, since it just runs along the old wiring harness, it wouldn't be hard to replace.  I'd have to replace the back connections (where I gang the hot and ground sides) but that's not too difficult either.

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: h2olawyer on February 26, 2007, 06:36:27 PM
Just got back.  Had a couple errands to run & Checker Auto was on the way.  Needed some other things for the truck anyway.  Found an ATC type fuse block.  Its made by Buss Fuses.  Catalog # vBP/15600-06-20  Each of the 6 circuits can run up to 30A.  Good if you're going to run your aux. lights off the block.

I went with the heavier feed wire just in case a high power device is added.  Thinking about grip heaters & heated clothing in the future - something you Californians don't have to worry much about.   ;D

PM me your address & I can get it in the mail for you.

H2O
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: supervision on February 26, 2007, 08:24:32 PM
 h2, what about when we come to go ride with you, I been thinking about a vest ya know, and grips or maybe hand gaurds to block the wind, hard to ride when your teeth are chattering!   I'm jazzed about comming back and ridding with you in June. I have been working on aset of 83 carbs and a few other things, to try back there.  sv
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: h2olawyer on February 26, 2007, 08:55:08 PM
SV -

Temps in mid-June can get chilly up high.  Figure on low 40s @ elevations over 10,000.  Generally, the riding at that elevation only lasts a few minutes.  Most of the riding will happen from 8,000 to 10,000 feet.  Temps should be in the 60s & low 70s for daytime highs.  Mornings will start out cool - upper 30s & low 40s but I don't anticipate getting rides rolling until around 10 AM.  As soon as the sun is up, temps tend to rise pretty quick.  A benefit of low humidity.  The ride over Trail Ridge goes over 12,000 and Mt. Evans is over 14,000.  I've never really been too cold up there even before the full fairing.

Aerostich has an inexpensive grip heat system for about $35.  I'm going to order & install them this Spring.  Other than that, a good riding jacket with a heavy turtleneck under it & good leather riding gloves should keep you warm enough.  The only times I felt I needed heated clothing is when I've ended up riding in a snowstorm - temps in the mid 30s.  Doubt it will be that cold in mid June, but it is a possibility.  I've seen snow at elevations above 8500 feet every month of the year - July & August included.  If you have a rain suit, make sure to bring it.  Those things are not only good for rain, but work wonders at keeping the wind chill from getting very bad.

Speeds over the higher passes are generally lower than normal highway speed limits (55 - 65 MPH in CO).  Trail Ridge is 35 MPH & fairly heavily patrolled by federal cops - it is a National Park after all.  Won't be a speed run as the scenery is just too magnificent & the traffic is kind of heavy.  However, coming back over the mountains from Estes Park - the long way around - has lots of fast sweepers, a few twisties & some long high speed straights.  There's even a "Moose Visitor Center" that makes a fantastic stop.

Looking forward to riding with you again, too!

Sorry for the thread hijack, Brian.  Back to your reconditioning!

H2O
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: supervision on February 26, 2007, 09:21:53 PM
  Ok, I feel better now,  sorry Brian, hey last time we went riding, Brian was there too!  Maybe Brian should go to Co. and try out his scooter   sv
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on February 27, 2007, 09:46:47 AM
Sorry for the thread hijack, Brian.  Back to your reconditioning!

No problem.  I'm not going to be able to make it to Colorado, the timing isn't working out.

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on March 13, 2007, 10:15:51 AM
Most of the carb work I've done has been mentioned in a different topic, but I've included 2 photos here of the rear carb and the front carb.  The rear is now complete, the front has a brief "dusting" so to speak.   On the front carb, I managed to crack the 140 main air jet on top of the carb, so I will have to replace it.  I was able to get it out.  The Keyster carb kits don't contain this jet, but they're only 7 bucks at DGY.

I also polished my front windscreen and that removed all of the yellowing.  I used "Micro-Mesh".  Unfortunately, I think I need to go back and use the finer polishing cloths to remove some of the scratches.
(http://members.cruzio.com/~moffetb/vision/rear-carb-3-11.jpg)(http://members.cruzio.com/~moffetb/vision/front-carb-3-11.jpg)
Rear Carb Front Carb (pre-cleaning)

Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: QBS on March 13, 2007, 07:04:06 PM
What is "micro mesh", where is it available from, and what's the general process of its' usage?
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on March 15, 2007, 12:45:49 PM
What is "micro mesh",

http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&did=19&product_id=343 (http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&did=19&product_id=343)

It's basically finer and finer sheets of what appears to be emory cloth or wet-dry sandpaper.  The instructions say to start with the 1500, and move up to 6000.  I got most of the yellowing off with the 1500, and then I guess I didn't use enough of the higher grits to remove the faint scratches from the lower grits.  You're supposed to alternate "horizontal" and "vertical" sanding.

Finally, you apply a buffing compound to the cloth they provide and buf to a shine.  I found this in my hangar at watsonville, so I didn't pay for it (well, I did when I bought the plane I guess.)

Brian


Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: h2olawyer on March 15, 2007, 02:07:00 PM
I thought it was an aircraft restoration product.  I remember hearing about something that is used on older plastic aircraft windows to remove yellowing & crazing.  This sure sounds like the stuff.  Thanks for the post, VR.

H2O
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on March 15, 2007, 03:49:20 PM
Thanks for the post, VR.

Hmm, in a  couple of weeks I just might have to change my nickname to something else...

Brian  (Vision Risen?)


Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: YellowJacket! on March 15, 2007, 09:16:47 PM
Vision Rebirth.

;D

David
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on March 17, 2007, 09:23:12 PM
 The running light brackets fit between the fairing and the fairing frame and there is no interference anywhere.  And oh yes, these are the shorty turn-signal stalks  :)
(http://members.cruzio.com/~moffetb/vision/Lights-3-17.jpg)
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: h2olawyer on March 17, 2007, 09:27:37 PM
Those look great.  I like the small size & rectangular shape.  Fits well with the bike.

H2O
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Lucky on March 17, 2007, 09:36:12 PM
I'm wondering if their light output would mask the turn signals, thereby not letting a vehicle in front realize your about to turn?

 if you won't have them on for on-comming trafic that kind of defeats the purpose, or are they only for trying to get a better look at large woodland creatures before they try to kill you?  :o :o
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Lucky on March 17, 2007, 09:43:57 PM
Rereading my last post, if it sounds like i'm picking on you, i'm not, it's a safety concern...
--Lucky
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on March 17, 2007, 09:46:20 PM
Yeah,. I have the same concern of masking the turn signals.  But without mounting them on the forks, I can't think of a good way.  I put them on to provide both a visual for someone to see me better, as well as the show woodland critters.  Of course, I've never really depended on the turn signals for people in front of me, mostly for people behind me.  Not sure why that is...

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Lucky on March 17, 2007, 09:58:57 PM
But Brian, it's ALLWAYS the idiot turning left in front of you....
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on March 17, 2007, 10:08:55 PM
And I do pay attention to their turn signals (actually more their actions)  :)
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on March 19, 2007, 03:36:44 PM
Amusing story. 

I went out to check on the brackets for the lights to see how the paint was doing (they have to black of course!) I looked over on the trunk of my next project (a 1967 Austin Healy Sprite) and saw two really large nuts.  My brain went through all of the nuts I put back on the bike and the ones that are like these, with the shoulders and grip on one side.  I could not remember where they went.  Of course I thought I was missing them on some important part.   I went into the house and started going through the manual to find a 12 - 14 mm nut that comes in a pair...  Couldn't find that combination at all.

I went back into the garage and looked at the bike, the rear end of the bike. "What was I missing?" as I stared at the shorty turn signal stalks.

Doh.

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on March 22, 2007, 12:53:15 PM
woo hoo.  My 140 main air jets arrived today!  The carbs can go back together!

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on March 25, 2007, 11:10:05 AM
(http://members.cruzio.com/~moffetb/vision/Lights-3-24.jpg)
The carbs went back together yesterday, and it appears that the problem might have been the front carb emulsions tube.  When I pulled it out to clean it, I put the nozzle of the carb clean at the jet and sprayed.  Not much came out.  I did it again, and then carb cleaner really started coming out.  It was as if the jet was blocked somewhat and it's now clear.  But, I put the carbs back together using standard fuel line hose from Kragen where I had to cut the hose off.  I still have to fit the hoses to the petcock, which is why they are long.  I also put a little bit of grease on the fittings so that things will slide on and off a little better.

But there is one more hose that I need to pick up, which is the small hose that goes between the two accelerator pump connections.  I think I'm going to have to visit a hobby store for hose that small, none of the auto-stores carry anything but standard fuel line. 

Can I use small vacuum line?

And a shot of the lights to the left.  One thing about the lights, I did pick up a rely and wired it into the blue wire coming off the ignition switch (the one for the rear lights). The lights go off when I turn the key off.  However, I ran out of room under the dash!  The relay is in the headlight bucket...

Brian
(http://members.cruzio.com/~moffetb/vision/Carbs-3-24.jpg)
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on March 25, 2007, 11:19:54 AM
For those that don't remember:

(http://members.cruzio.com/~moffetb/vision/Carbs-1-21.jpg)
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Lucky on March 25, 2007, 11:22:29 AM
I like where you put the fuel filter. kind of a tight fit, but that's where i put mine too.

you can use 2 cycle (think weedeater) fuel line between the carbs for the accel pump. vacuume line is too soft & won't keep the pressure up.

--Lucky
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on March 25, 2007, 11:25:10 AM
Thanks, that's why I was thinking hobby shop, they sell stuff for RC airplanes (some of which use weed-eater engines!)  The fuel filter actually allows the fuel line to arc more and keep it from interfering.  Pretty nice.

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Tiger on March 25, 2007, 11:36:52 AM
 8) Looking really good Brian... 8)
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: h2olawyer on March 25, 2007, 05:51:40 PM
I'll echo Tiger's remark!

I used a 90 degree angle type filter.  Even though they are 82 carbs, the location is similar. the hose comes out of the petcock to the filter, makes a right angle & goes through the fuel line support.  Can see into the filter from the side of the bike - makes it easy to see if there's been any contamination going through.

H2O
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on March 31, 2007, 10:35:38 PM
One year ago today, on my way down to the California Riders of Vision get together, I lost power above about 4500 RPM. 

Today, the bike started and ran, bogging terribly at 5000 RPM (it hasn't been synced yet) but making it up to 8000 RPM before I let it come down again.  The YICS might be leaking slightly, and it does need to be synced.

More later.

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: dminor on March 31, 2007, 10:47:11 PM
Brian,
   The bike is looking good, when are you going to ride it? I hope you get it on the rode before the reunion.
D

PS let me know if you need anything ;)
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: h2olawyer on March 31, 2007, 11:00:34 PM
Woo-Hoo!  Almost there.  Sounds like you've fixed the glitch.  Wish you were coming to CO in June so I could see what your clean V looks like!

H2O
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on April 01, 2007, 12:42:28 PM

A bit more information.  For the last few days, I was trying to find the 1/8 inch line that I can use between the accelerator pump and the front carb, but have been completely unsuccessful.  I tried pretty much every store I could think of, though I did get a lot of "Did you try..."  information from people I asked.  Saturday morning, I put the carbs back on the bike because I could put the fuel line on with them on.

At the same time, my airplane is going into annual, and I headed down to the airport to clean the oil off from the belly yesterday, figuring I would have to mail-order the line from dennis kirk or something along those lines.   When driving by a hanger I saw someone polishing his 97 Triumph, and stopped to chat.  Turns out he is getting ready to sell it, only 4000 dollars, but that's still a bit out of my league.

I mentioned rebuilding the Vision, and that I was not having any luck at the fuel line.  "You mean this stuff?"  He gave me a foot of it free.

So, I came home after a couple of hours, and I installed the fuel line. I didn't have the right size clips to keep the line on, but it's a good pressure fit for the moment.  I put the tank back on, but not the air box or filter.  Connected things up and turned it on prime. Discovered I had a slight fuel leak at the brass bolt that covers the get near the bottom and tightened that up.  Also had to tighten up the screw under the carb which covers the bottom get. 

Rolled the throttle several times, and turned the engine over.  It would catch and then die. 

Nothing. Then I walked around the bike and there was something missing.  I hadn't put the YICS on.  I couldn't find the bolt that connects it up, but I attached it and used a different bolt to hold it on.  Rolled the throttle several times, hit the start button and she started up (well, after a bit of coaxing.)  Used the idle adjustment to bring the idle up to about 2500 RPM and let it warm up.

After it was warm, I started moving the throttle up, and right around 5000 RPM, it started bogging down to the point of almost dying. However, when I let go of the throttle it came back (unlike last time).  I gave it more gas and it choked a little through 5000 but climbed on up to 8000 RPM and stayed there. It ran rough, but it ran.

Shut it down and let it cool off for a while.  I removed the tank again, and came up with a list of things to do:

1) the main line for the fuel return is too short, it kinks when I connect it up to the petcock.
2) get clips for the new fuel line.
3) find the bolt for YICS and test it for leaks.  (there was a slight hesitancy when I let go of the throttle)
4) put airbox back on and then adjust the sync, after I clean the air filter.

So, it's pretty close.  I might need some mixture adjustment.  I didn't remove the mixture adjustment when I cleaned the carbs since it was running well at lower RPM.  I couldn't find a dip here in California, and apparently Santa Cruz is the boondocks when it comes to non-standard auto and motorcycle supplies!  I'm going to try the 4 things above first and see what comes of it. 

Based on the way the airbox is laid out, I need to tune the carbs with it on, and I assume I attach the sync gauge (I have a carb-stick I got from my dad) to the YICS ports?

Brian (no, this isn't an April Fools joke.  It really ran...)
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on April 01, 2007, 12:47:30 PM
   The bike is looking good, when are you going to ride it? I hope you get it on the rode before the reunion.

Thanks Don, I really appreciate all of the help and parts I've gotten off members (and I really will send the spare parts back!).  I figure I will have it back on the road with a week or two.  It's really that close.  I don't think I will be able to make it to the reunion.  However, my life is currently in a bit of flux, so I don't know.  I'm looking for another job and I don't know what that will bring or when. 

I'll keep people informed, and hopefully get a photo or two soon.

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: h2olawyer on April 01, 2007, 02:29:49 PM
Brian -

Attach the carb synch tool to the vacuum ports on the intake boots.  You may need to make some adapters to fit.  There should be an extra port on the rear boot & the front one requires unhooking the petcock vacuum.  Run with petcock on prime when you synch.

At least that's how the 82s are done.  Your 83 may require some slight differences.

H2O
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on April 02, 2007, 03:14:21 PM
Attach the carb synch tool to the vacuum ports on the intake boots.  You may need to make some adapters to fit.  There should be an extra port on the rear boot & the front one requires unhooking the petcock vacuum.  Run with petcock on prime when you synch.

I'm going off memory here, but I have a single port on the rear intake manifold that goes to the accelerator pump, and 2 ports on the front intake manifold, one goes to the petcock and one goes to the fuel pump.  Since I'll be running at a "idle" I probably don't need to use the fuel pump and petcock (or even the accelerator pump?) 

Which got me thinking on the line to the accelerator pump.  Why is it there?  If you have more vacuum, and you roll the throttle does that mean you'll get a larger fuel shot into the carb?  Or do I have this really wired incorrectly?

Brian

P.S. As it turns out I was not able to do as much work on the vision this last weekend because I've been working on the annual inspection on my Stinson 108.  Apparently it blew out an exhaust manifold gasket and has a cracked flange on the exhaust.  That probably will need to be replaced before it can fly again...  Ah well, it's only money...
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: h2olawyer on April 02, 2007, 03:57:03 PM
I haven't looked at the vacuum plumbing on an 83.  But, at idle, you shouldn't need the fuel pump.  Set your petcock to prime so it flows without vacuum.  The 82s have one vacuum port capped, so on those, you just need to disconnect the petcock.  Not sure why the accel pump would be vacuum actuated - or assisted.  Interesting.

Motorcycle = a hole in the ground into which one throws some money.
Boat = a hole in the water into which one throws a lot of money.
Airplane = a hole in the air into which one throws all their money.
Ain't hobbies great!   ;D

H2O
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on April 02, 2007, 03:59:59 PM
Ain't hobbies great!   ;D

Oh yeah.  And if you look at the photos of the Vision, you'll see my next project, a 1967 Austin Healy Mk IV Sprite.  I took my driving test in that car.  (scary image, I had the test giver come out, ask where the car was.  I pointed to the Sprite and he looked at it and them limped over to it.  He couldn't bend his right leg very well, I could see he was already marking down points before he got in the car.  I passed by 1 point)

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: h2olawyer on April 02, 2007, 04:18:40 PM
A, A-H Sprite!  To quote Tim Taylor,  "But, it's British!  It's got that wierd positive ground electrical system NOBODY understands!"   ;D

Actually, I'm a fan of British vehicles.  Dad had a TR3, a friend had a Lotus Europa and his dad had an MG-TD.  The TR3 was difficult to keep the carbs in synch, the Europa kept breaking $700 bearing housings & the TD leaves an oil slick wherever it parks (and that's after a professional rebuild).  I think its the quirky nature of the cars that makes them so endearing.  That & the fact they're just so much fun to drive.

Took my driver's test in a 62 VW bug & my motorcycle test on a GPz550.  Same examiner for both.  He was the only one in Steamboat for many years.  About 30 years of Steamboat kids got their licenses from him.  The cycle test was two parts - written & riding around some painted dots in the court house parking lot, stopping & accelerating.  Took about 5 minutes.  Much more involved today.

H2O
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: YellowJacket! on April 02, 2007, 05:40:26 PM
The guy that gave me my Vision asked me if I would like to help him restore his running wreck, a 1970 something MG.  Overall, it runs great and he drives it a lot in nice weather.  Mostly needs body work though which I'm clueless about....Reckon, wanna spend some time in Tennessee?  ;D

David
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Lucky on April 02, 2007, 06:29:13 PM
the acellerator control valve on the 83 accel pump is supposed to keep the accel pumps from spraying with the bike off (lack of vacuume) so you don't flood it, but it's a piss poor design, don't ever take it apart unless it leaks vacuume or fuel, then call me FIRST!!!!

--Lucky
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on April 02, 2007, 06:38:11 PM
don't ever take it apart unless it leaks vacuume or fuel, then call me FIRST!!!!

Too late :-)  It seems to be working just fine after I rebuilt it.  I made sure to put it back together the way it was, and I didn't remove that rod at all. 

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on April 16, 2007, 01:21:04 PM
Sunday afternoon I picked up fuel lines which were plenty long for all of the applications I needed, and then put the airbox back on. Because the line from the front valve cover disintigrated on me when I took it off months ago, I replaced it.  That meant I had to cut down a line and then attach it, making sure that I didn't get a kink in the line and end up blocking off the vent.   At the same time, based on a different thread, I rotated my rear shock :-)

It's been a while since I've been able to work on the bike, mostly because the Friday before Easter, I got hit with a really bad cold.  The type that saps your energy so that it's hard to even make it through a shower.  I spent most of last week recovering, but ended up getting bacterial conjunctivitis in both eyes. (pink-eye, probably from the cold, bacterial is when your eyelids glue together...)  I'm now on anti-biotics for that. 

In addition, I found out that my airplane needed to have the entire left exhaust system replaced.  Sunday was the first day I actually found time and energy to work on the bike.  As of right now, I need to clean the air-filter, check to make sure everything is in the proper place, and then synchronize the carbs.  If I'm fortunate, that will be just about the end of this little odyssey.  I still need to fix the lower fairing heat vents, but compared to what else I've been through, that should be easy.

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on April 16, 2007, 01:24:16 PM
the acellerator control valve on the 83 accel pump is supposed to keep the accel pumps from spraying with the bike off (lack of vacuume) so you don't flood it

I just reread this line.  My vision has never, ever done this.  The accell pump has always sprayed without a vacuum.  I find it kind of useful to tell you the truth, I use it to start the bike.

How odd.

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Lucky on April 16, 2007, 11:20:24 PM
that's why i said 'supposed to'  ;)

mine doesn't work as advertised either.
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: inanecathode on April 17, 2007, 07:27:51 AM
That's weird, why would you want the accelerator pumps to not work at all? Thought it was standard op to pump the throttle on anything carburated before starting?  ???
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Prophet Of Doom on April 17, 2007, 01:11:40 PM
I sat my licence test in a 1936 Austin 10 (10 horsepower).  It stalled at the lights and the testing officer was so incensed by me having to get out and hand crank it that he got out and walked back to the station.  He told me that sitting the test in my car was like sitting school exams with a broken pencil, and that the only reason he didn't ticket me for driving an unsafe vehicle was that it was my (15th) birthday.
Needless to say I failed - and sat it again later in a slightly more reliable Mazda
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on April 21, 2007, 06:54:06 PM
2.5 miles on the Vision today, up to the university entrance and back.  It pulls nicely all the way to redline.

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: h2olawyer on April 21, 2007, 07:21:36 PM
Great news!

Looks like the gremlins moved to Tiger's place, though.

What do we call you now - Vision Risen?   ;D

H2O
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on April 22, 2007, 05:17:22 PM
I've been doing a work on the bike today, I'll post more later.  However, if you get new spark plugs, carbs set up correctly and everything tuned nicely, hopefully your bike will start as easily as mine.  When warm it will fire before one full revolution.  It's amazing...

Oh, and 21 years ago today, I paid 2590.00 for my bike, plus doc fees, sales tax, a service contract, and license for a total out the door price of 3159.70. (I found my purchase contract.)

Brian (off to pick up some more misc parts.  I lost the nuts that hold the seat on!!!)

(http://members.cruzio.com/~moffetb/vision/Vision-4-22.jpg)
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: h2olawyer on April 22, 2007, 07:53:25 PM
Good to hear you've got it all sorted out & clean!   ;D  How do you manage to stay on with a loose seat?

I'm sure the initial paperwork for mine is around in a file box someplace.  I've moved several times since I bought it in June, 1984.  I paid about half what you did.  no service contract, but I did get a helmet, shark fairing and case guards.

Sounds like I ought to do the spark plugs on mine.  When it gets regular use, it starts almost as easily as yours.  However, if it sits a few days, I need to set to prime, wait a few minutes, set choke to about 50%, give the throttle a couple twists and crank it for a couple seconds before it fires up.  When I finally got the carbs really clean & had new plugs, it did start a little easier.  Been a few years since I had the carbs apart.  Been running Seafoam on a regular basis (about 1/4 can every third fill-up) & BG44K once a year through them so they should be staying clean.  Also have a lined tank & fuel filter installed and use Sta-Bil whenever it has a chance of sitting longer than three weeks.

H2O
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on April 22, 2007, 07:58:06 PM
The photo was after I replaced the nuts with self-locking ones.  ;)

And notice the fairing doesn't have the lowers on it yet.  But that's all that remains at the moment.  I haven't decided if I'm going to add up what I've put into her this time around...

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Tiger on April 22, 2007, 09:11:42 PM
I haven't decided if I'm going to add up what I've put into her this time around...
Brian

...Don't Brian, it'll scare the shit outta you... ;) BTW...nice seat 8)

                                         
8).......TIGER....... 8)
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on April 22, 2007, 09:29:43 PM
BTW...nice seat 8)

Yeah, it appears to have spawned a lot of children  :o
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on April 25, 2007, 08:23:29 PM
Oh dear me.  I'm beginning to think I like the looks of my bike without the lower fairings...    :o

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Ron_McCoy on April 25, 2007, 09:49:59 PM
Many of us like them better that way.  Looking good Brian. :) :) :)
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: inanecathode on April 25, 2007, 10:26:39 PM
A bunch of perverts i tell ya! Fawning over half naked visions! Mine's gonna be fully clothed thank you very much..
Title: It's done
Post by: Brian Moffet on April 29, 2007, 06:31:27 PM
Progressive forks springs, stainless brake lines, new carb parts, rebuilt forks, front running lights, shorty turn signal stalks.  Frame was almost completely repainted, removing all of the rust.  Fork lowers were repainted.  I didn't end up replacing the rear shock.  There was quite a lot done to the bike, a lot of deferred maintenance.  There is still a very slight hesitation when you slowly go up to 5000 RPM and hold it there on the center stand.  However the bike pulls really strongly with no hesitation when you're riding it.  I think I still have a few minor things to do, but I'm classifying those as minor projects for later.

10 months after I started the rebuild, and 13 months after it broke near Paso Robles.  Probably around 250 hours of my time during the last 10 months.

Oh and still 24 year old paint  ;)

Brian

(http://members.cruzio.com/~moffetb/vision/vision-04-29.jpg) (http://members.cruzio.com/~moffetb/vision/vision-2-4-29.jpg)
(http://members.cruzio.com/~moffetb/vision/vision-3-4-29.jpg) (http://members.cruzio.com/~moffetb/vision/vision-4-4-29.jpg)
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Night Vision on April 29, 2007, 06:48:54 PM
niiiize.... let's see some pics of VR on TR (the road)
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: h2olawyer on April 29, 2007, 06:58:02 PM
Congrats!  Sure looks purdy.  The upgrades should help it ride better than new!   8)

H2O
Title: Epilogue
Post by: Brian Moffet on May 05, 2007, 05:08:44 PM

I rode the Vision down to the airport to participate in a Young Eagles rally ( http://www.youngeagles.org/ ).  The bike ran flawlessly the entire way down and back.  I had the running headlights on all the way.  I also ran into traffic on the way back, which lead to stop and go traffic. For those people interested, the temp gauge ran from 40 percent from bottom to top of green to about 75 percent when stopped in traffic.  Never approached the red.  A good 40 mile ride there and back.

However, once I got home, the bike didn't want to start again, it would turn over and almost start, but not quite.  Once in the garage I was able to get it started and looked at the voltage at the battery at 3500 RPM, it was registering 13.5 volts.  Now this is the same battery that was in the bike when it died on the way to Paso, and I knew that it needs replacing.  The battery basically sat for 10 months. It would only register 12 volts when fully charged, so I suspect one of the cells is gone.

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: inanecathode on May 05, 2007, 06:08:45 PM
How do the plugs look?
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on May 05, 2007, 07:44:23 PM
Plugs are good (new as of 35 miles ago, and looking fine now.)
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on March 16, 2008, 06:39:28 PM
I need to reorganize the images on my web space, as I am taking up too much.  Because of that, the images in this thread will no longer be good. 

All of the photos will be in my pbase account, and I will be updating my web page to link off of there.

FYI

Brian
Title: Re: Epilogue
Post by: inanecathode on March 17, 2008, 02:11:18 AM

I rode the Vision down to the airport to participate in a Young Eagles rally ( http://www.youngeagles.org/ ).  The bike ran flawlessly the entire way down and back.  I had the running headlights on all the way.  I also ran into traffic on the way back, which lead to stop and go traffic. For those people interested, the temp gauge ran from 40 percent from bottom to top of green to about 75 percent when stopped in traffic.  Never approached the red.  A good 40 mile ride there and back.

However, once I got home, the bike didn't want to start again, it would turn over and almost start, but not quite.  Once in the garage I was able to get it started and looked at the voltage at the battery at 3500 RPM, it was registering 13.5 volts.  Now this is the same battery that was in the bike when it died on the way to Paso, and I knew that it needs replacing.  The battery basically sat for 10 months. It would only register 12 volts when fully charged, so I suspect one of the cells is gone.

Brian

If it actually reads 12 volts fully charged you should be fine cell wise. I'd suggest a good flush and overcharge, it'll bring that battery right back to new :)
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Night Vision on March 17, 2008, 06:45:29 PM
a battery can read 12v on a meter and still have a bad cell(s)
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on March 17, 2008, 07:00:19 PM
Doesn't matter, I replaced it with an AGM battery from Mikes and it works great.
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: inanecathode on March 17, 2008, 09:40:50 PM
It shouldn't read 12 volts after any sort of load condition, (thats why i said if it 'actually reads 12v' sorry if i wasn't clear), if a cell is dead. Each cell produces (ideally) 2.1 volts, no less than 2. To have a bad cell it'd have to simultaneously have a bad cell, and a single severely (over twice the voltage) sulfated cell, bringing the surface charge back up to twelve, even with a dead cell. That is to say thats just a surface charge, under any kind of load the sulfated cell would drop back to almost nothing, leaving you with a battery with 8.4 or 9 volts. A weak battery like he describes that reads an actual voltage of around 12 volts is almost always medium to heavy sulphation. Shorted cells aren't very common anyway, not to mention for such a young battery (10 months isn't long for a modern lead acid cell battery).
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on March 17, 2008, 10:10:51 PM
It sat for 10 months without being used.  It was in the bike for 3 - 4 years prior to that.

Brian
Title: Re: Dead Dirty Vision
Post by: inanecathode on March 17, 2008, 10:37:33 PM
Oh, well thats different then :D