Riders Of Vision

General => TechTalk => Topic started by: XZv2 on February 11, 2007, 03:08:41 AM

Title: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: XZv2 on February 11, 2007, 03:08:41 AM
Dear friends,
Finally, finally I finished my XZ400 discovery tour. I obtained a 400 engine from Simcha (thanks again!), took it to Holland, and it was on my workbench for months side-by-side with a 550 engine (see picture I try to post).
Well, both engines have been taken apart, and I tried to document all differences.
In short, the 400 flywheel and the balancer shaft are lighter, they are interchangeable with the 550 equivalents. The gear box has a different ratio for 5th gear. If you exchange both 5th gear camwheels, they are interchangeable.
The primary gear wheels are different, but that was documented before.
Of course the crankshaft, cylinders and heads are different between 550 and 400, but they fit in basically the same casts (cylinders550 in carters400 only with adaptation work).
I will use the light 400 flywheel and the light balancer shaft in a 550 "supersport", a project for the future.
The special 400 gear box makes the choice of gearing for XZ's even larger than before. There are 3 sets of primary gear wheels (400, 550 US and 550 Euro), and this 5th gear "close ratio" option might be interesting for sidecar-XZ's or racing XZ's.
I put all data I obtained up to now on xz550.nl, topic XZ400. The second part, XZ400 Discovery Tour is the new part with the data and pictures.

Also, I have a question on this 400 bike. The tach-unit has a light at the location where the 83 550 RK models have their fuel gauge (see picture with red arrow on xz550.nl/the XZ400. Is this perhaps a low level fuel warning light? Do Australian, NewZealand 400's have this light also??

XZv2


Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: Night Vision on February 11, 2007, 10:11:37 AM
that shock looks interesting. I'm surprised that the Euros (besides the xz550S?) didn't have shocks with dampning.

I have a language translator (you have link to babble fish), but since I can't type Japanese characters, I can't translate what that light says...

if I could copy/paste it, the translator might work....

Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: XZv2 on February 11, 2007, 10:38:35 AM
No, NightVision, all XZ's I have seen here did not have rear adjustable damping. All, including 550S are 1982. The only Euro 1983 I know of, was of our Polish friend, who contributed some years ago to this forum.
Many, many new XZ were sold here in 83, 84, and 85, but they are all 1982 Euro versions. Perhaps a few "real 83" were imported here (new or secondhand), but up to now I did not see one in real shape or in an advertisnent.
No. I can't read Japanese too, but I hope one of the Japan (or Australia?) XZ riders know what this light is.
XZv2
 
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: tremalzo on February 11, 2007, 01:00:13 PM
Last year I bought a rear shock for my next project bike. Opening the parcel the shock surprisingly turned out to be an adjustable. Never seen one like this before. It came from a 84 UK xz550. My project bike also is a euro. It's a 85 and has a very rusty non adjustable shock model 82.

Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: XZv2 on February 11, 2007, 01:21:23 PM
Hi, Tremalzo, what is the year of manufacture mentioned on the steering head aluminum label and what is the frame- and engine number of the 85 bike?
Is the adjustable rear shock you bought from the UK similar to the 400 adjustable that is shown in the xz400 topic on xz550.nl?
XZv2
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: tremalzo on February 11, 2007, 02:15:29 PM
Hi XZv2

The UK shock is different from the one in the xz400 topic. Next weekend I'll sent you a pic and the other info at your pm.

Frans
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: XZv2 on February 25, 2007, 02:46:49 AM
I received an answer to the question on the enigmatic light in the XZ400 tacho-unit (see xz550.nl topic XZ400).
An XZ400 rider from New Zealand informs me that his bike has such a light: it is a warning light that comes on at speeds above 80 km/h. 
XZ's are wonderful bikes, some versions have really remarkable goodies!!
XZv2
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: Night Vision on February 25, 2007, 08:41:07 AM
I would think that little bulb would have burned out by now, if it were on my Vision  :D

did Tremalzo ever send a picture of that shock?
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: XZv2 on February 25, 2007, 03:48:53 PM
Yes, NightVision, the bulb would burn most of the time, here also. It is also not so useful in New Zealand, that seems to have a 100 km/h speed limit.

Yes, Tremalzo did send a picture of the rear shock. It is the standard shock for the 83 XZ550 RK models, with a five-step adjustment for the hydraulic damping. Different from what I found on the UK XZ400.
XZv2
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: Lucky on February 25, 2007, 09:03:45 PM
Ok, so i have to wonder what triggers the light???

I can see if the TCI triggering the light to keep from over-reving the bike (with or instead of the rev limiter) but the speedo is a completely mechanical unit, there are no wires or electronics, & you said the light triggers at 80 km/h...

did they add a sensor to the speedo?

--Lucky
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: XZv2 on February 26, 2007, 02:28:11 AM
Yes, that is an interesting question, Lucky! Should be some kind of switch in the speedo. The speedometer of the XZ400 tach-unit I photographed in the UK (see picture at xz550.nl topic xz400) has a white (or originally different colour?) for 80+ speeds. This bike was sold new in Japan. I received the information that it is a 80+ warning light from an xz400 rider in New Zealand, where bikes with a similar tacho-unit are riding. I will try to find out how it works.
XZv2
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: kiwibum on February 26, 2007, 05:20:21 AM
Hi Guys
It was me that sent XZv2 info about the 80km/h warning light. When I pull the intruments off again I'll look into how it operates, at the time I just wanted to stop the dam light coming on at 80 so unpluged it. I'm going to put in an electronic circuit and reuse the light to indicate for over and under voltage of the charging system, need to find a circuit for this first, I figure if I have it solid red for under 12.5v and blinking for over 14.8v it should give me good indication of what is going on and if the stator fails.

Neither of my XZ400's have the adjustable damper shown on XZv2 review of the differences.  The NZ ones don't have the nice aluminum foot pegs either. I haven't seen any with factory fairings it appears only the 550 has them here, they seem to be the budget special!  Then saying that they have twin discs and air caps on the forks.

Steve
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: Riche on February 26, 2007, 11:56:37 AM
XZv2

Do you have a better/clearer image of the spec sheet than the one on your website? I can't get a good readable print out of the image on the website. If it is Japenese I may be able to get it translated.
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: kiwibum on February 26, 2007, 02:32:18 PM
I have better copies of them, PM me your email and I'll send them to you.
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: XZv2 on February 26, 2007, 05:53:53 PM
Hello, Riche, I sent the best files that I have to your email address. They are better than the small file of the website. I hope it is of use to you, or the ones Kiwibum will send you. Please let me know if you can read the Japanese or other East Asia language used in this folder.
XZv2

Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: Riche on February 27, 2007, 12:01:19 PM
Thanks XZv2 I'll check them this evening. If your files are not clear enough I'll PM kiwibum. I don't read Japenese myself but a friend, Hiroshi, does. It's his native language. Either he or one of his co workers should be willing to translate if indeed it is Japanese. It's good to catch this now before they head back to Japan.
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: Riche on February 27, 2007, 07:50:40 PM
XZ2v, didn't get any mail from you.

kiwibum, you have a pm
Thanks in advance
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: XZv2 on February 28, 2007, 01:17:19 AM
Riche, I did send it to the address I found in your profile riche@hiredguns-hq.com. It did not come back. Perhaps the attachments (2,6 Mb in total) were too large??
I can send these in smaller parts if the address is correct.
XZv2
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: Riche on February 28, 2007, 12:07:02 PM
XZv2

Maybe they arrived after I was able to check my mail. The size would be no problem for that mail server. I did get some frokm kiwibum and printed them. Koichi is going to interpert for me. If he has time I'm going to ask him to tell me about what is on xz-style.com. We will have to look at it on his laptop because my computer here doens't have the proper files installed.

Thanks
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: kiwibum on February 28, 2007, 03:55:29 PM
I looked at xz-style using http://babelfish.altavista.com/ helps give an idea on what is there, mainly diary of the restore work done and rides.  Ryuji english is pretty good if you want to send him an email to say hi or ask about the site, we have exchanged a couple of messages, really nice guy, lots of time for him.

Steve
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: Riche on March 04, 2007, 09:58:21 AM
kiwibum

Can you post the files I sent you? Or maybe send them to XZv2. I wil not be able for another week + because the files are on my work computer.

TIA
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: XZv2 on March 04, 2007, 02:02:47 PM
Riche, I tried to send the files that I have again to you. Hope they come over now, and that they are better than those used on my website.
XZv2
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: Night Vision on March 04, 2007, 03:17:43 PM
XZv2; I think someone is messing with your email   >:(
I sent you one in February I guess you didn't get either
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: XZv2 on March 04, 2007, 05:27:42 PM
I did not receive that, NightVision. I just sent you a mail with two email-adresses. Please try again, XZv2
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: kiwibum on March 04, 2007, 08:45:00 PM
here you go, being busy, just won an exhaust system on ebay and now trying to source some braided brake lines, looking at fork rebuild as well, it's all go.

(http://www.kiwibum.com/images/stories/projects/xz/XZ400_lores.jpg)
Higher resolution files here:
PDF 200KB http://www.kiwibum.com/images/stories/projects/xz/XZ400_spec.pdf (http://www.kiwibum.com/images/stories/projects/xz/XZ400_spec.pdf)
JPG 600KB http://www.kiwibum.com/images/stories/projects/xz/XZ400_hires.jpg (http://www.kiwibum.com/images/stories/projects/xz/XZ400_hires.jpg)

hope these are useful, XZv2 has just sent me some useful info and photos on the 400-550 Cylinders and Pistons. Basically the cylinders and pistons are the same length just different bore diameters which means there is a bunch of room for stroking and swaping parts. Since the cylinders are the same length as the 400 which doens't have a fuel pump, I have to question why does the 550 have a fuel pump? I had read it was because the carbs were higher than the petcock and it was needed to get the last of the fuel out, my 400 happily drains down below reserve, haven't been keen to run it out all together though.

Steve
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: XZv2 on March 05, 2007, 12:29:44 AM
Thanks for the translations, Kiwibum. Good question on the fuel pump. The engine parts seem to have a similar height between 550 and 400.  The carbs are the same type BD34. The only difference is that the 550 has larger main jets, in size ca 20%, so at top power more fuel is flowing thru 550 carbs than thru 400 ones. I suppose, a 550 can run equally well without a fuel pump. When I have some time I will put the data and photos I sent you on the xz550.nl website so they are available for everybody.
XZv2
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: kiwibum on March 05, 2007, 04:16:46 AM
Don't thank me, thank Richie, I'm just the messenger.
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: Tiger on March 05, 2007, 05:56:14 AM
:) I'm sure that I am right in stating that Brian Mathewson runs his "V" with-out a fuel pump, with no issue's...

               
8).......TIGER....... 8)
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: XZv2 on March 05, 2007, 04:55:28 PM
Probably Yamaha, desperately looking for possibilities to lower costs for the 400's (that certainly were as expensive to make as 550's), found out they could save a fuel pump without ill effects.
It is in fact surprising they kept the fuel pump on the later 550's.
And it's surprising they sold the 400 with 2 disks.
XZv2
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: Riche on March 05, 2007, 06:21:49 PM
Could it be the 400cc engine had something to do with road tax in the countries they were sold in?

Thanks for posting/hosting kiwibum
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: kiwibum on March 06, 2007, 02:04:47 PM
Not sure about Japan but it wasn't the case here in NZ, 60cc is the brake point and back then there were no new rider restrictions on size of bike.
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: don_vanecek on March 06, 2007, 03:57:59 PM
The dyno run looks like 45 hp from a 400 cc engine? Not too shabby! I still wonder if the Vision had sold better if Yamaha would have done a 650 or 700 cc version like Honda did with the CX500 (do I have the letter correct-the cross wise V twin they made for several years-not the later VT500-come to think of it I guess the VT engines got bigger also). I remember test riding a CX500 sometime before I bought my Vision and thinking to myself, Geez, this thing is hardly any faster then my CB350 twin-needless to say I didn't buy it!
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: Superfly on March 06, 2007, 05:19:32 PM
XZv2,

Just a curious question....
Are the wrist pins for the pistons the same on the 400's & 550's?
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: XZv2 on March 06, 2007, 05:42:00 PM
Superfly, do you mean the piston pins (see ill. 11.3 on page 63 Haynes where a circlip of a piston pin is removed)?
The diameter of the pins is the same of 400 and 550, and the connecting rods are the same. The pistons of the 550 fit on a 400 connection rod. I suppose the piston pins of the 550 are longer than of the 400, because the 550 piston is 80 mm diameter and 400 73 mm. I did not measure the length of both pins up to now, but I fitted a 550 piston to a 400 connecting rod, a perfect fit.
XZv2
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: Superfly on March 06, 2007, 06:03:09 PM
Thank you for the response, I was just curious.
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: kiwibum on March 06, 2007, 11:17:18 PM
XZv2
Just to clarify, are you saying:
1. the connecting rods are the same "length"? or
2. the crank and pin holes in the connecting rod are the same for both 550 & 400?

I calculate that the connecting rods must be different lengths since the stoke length changes and that the 550 rod will be shorter than the 400 one since the cylinders are the same length.

Steve
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: Riche on March 07, 2007, 09:18:31 AM
a different deck height on the piston could be used to get the same results. Shorter crank through/same rod length/higher deck. (deck height would be the distance from the centerline of the piston pin to the top of the piston)
economics, use the same rod and it's cheaper. you have to change the piston anyway because of the different bore size. Just a guess on what they might have done :)
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: kiwibum on March 07, 2007, 07:50:39 PM
That's why I asked as I think the pistons are the same height, in a message from XZv2 he mentioned "The pistons have the same heights above the small end bearing." Agreed it would have been easier to use difference piston lengths. I hadn't thought of that, if I build a stroked crank that might be one way to go if there is a problem finding the correct length connecting rod.
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: XZv2 on March 08, 2007, 02:54:18 AM
Hi, Kiwibum and Riche, I went yesterday evening back to the workshop to measure again the differences. I mounted the crankshaft of both 550 and 400 in the left carterhalf. The difference in stroke is caused by a different crankshaft. The "throw" of the 400 crankshaft is 47,6 and of the 550 it is 55 mm, measured at the top of the connecting rod. The connecting rods have the same imprinted numbers 11H-00 and seem to be the same length, but it is difficult to measure with the tools at hand (too long distance to use my calipers).
The small end diameter (and piston pin diameter) is exactly the same. With the crankshaft turned up, the connecting rod of the 550 sticks out a few mm more above the "carter level" (the plain on which the cylinder is mounted) than in the 400.
I measured before that the cylinders have similar heights and that the distance between piston pin and piston top are the same, but that cannot be true because both pistons came to the top of their cylinder, and I measure now that the connecting rod of the 550 sticks out more from the carter than the 400.
I will mount a piston and cylinder of a 400 and 550 on each carterhalf with crankshaft and try to measure everything as precise as possible.
Remember the difference here is half the difference in stroke, that is 55-47,6 mm=7,4 mm:2 = 3.7 mm. I do not know now where this difference is situated.
However, I cannot do that now: busy times because I have to go tomorrow to Italy for my work up to March 18. After that I will have some busy days again. I will do the measurements later this month and make pictures of it all. You will have them. My apologies that I cannot do more at this moment. XZv2 
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: kiwibum on March 08, 2007, 05:12:38 AM
Hi XZv2
thank you for all this information, nice to be able to get it, I have no time to build an engine at the moment, just planning for one, so when ever you get the opportunity to do some more measurements and post the information will be fine. The way my work load is stacking up I can't see me attempting anything until the end of the year anyway. Thanks again and have a great day.
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: XZv2 on April 22, 2007, 10:30:03 AM
Hi, Riche, Kiwibum and others, I am back after a busy period.
I put the 550 and 400 parts on the workbench today and measured up all parts. Riche, you were right with the idea that the distance between the 400 piston pin and the top of the piston is larger than in a 550. Indeed that distance is exactly 3,7 mm larger, and it makes up for the shorter stroke. 
The connecting rods are the same.
The piston pin of the 550 is 3 mm longer than the 400 (69 vs 66 mm) and has a thicker wall, same outside diameter to fit the rod.
Striking is the larger water mantle in the cylinder of the 400.
I put pictures of the 400 and 550 pistons fitted to one piston pin and some other pictures on xz550.nl topic XZ400.
XZv2
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: Lucky on April 22, 2007, 11:02:07 AM
Excellent write up XZ, thanks!
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: kiwibum on April 22, 2007, 07:08:57 PM
Hey Great work XZv2
I'm assuming the valve sizing is different in the heads as well between the two.  Looks like a capacity upgrade on a 400 might not be that difficult, something I want to work on in the summer, I would like to build a 650cc motor. 400 are easy to get here to use and make spares, 550 not so easy.

Steve
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: XZv2 on April 23, 2007, 02:04:50 PM
Yes, Kiwibum, the valve sizes are different between the 400 and 550 and also between inlets and exhausts. I will measure them, 400 is really smaller than 550.
The camshaft are different too. The inletcams of the 400 have a height of 36,3 mm (550: 36,8 mm) and the exhausts 35,4 (550:36,3).
Also, look at the picture of the 400 cylinder with the large water mantle at xz550.nl topic xz400. I doubt if this cylinder has enough "meat" to bore it out for the use of a big oversize piston.
Probably for making a 650 it would be best to use 550 cylinders and use oversize pistons in it, 550 cylinder heads (for the bigger valves) and 550 camshafts, and make your own longstroke crankshaft. XZv2
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: kiwibum on April 24, 2007, 04:09:35 AM
Thanks XZv2
I figured that I might need the 550 heads and cylinders to build something bigger but was hoping on being able to do it just with a 400???. Shame, another poor 400 has just come up on the local auction site for $80NZ, very tempting to get for parts but I've already got one for that. Anyone interested in 400 gearing, flywheel, short bar raisers, 83 style foot pegs etc? Maybe could do a swap for some 550 heads & cylinders. Might put a post up for it.

OK, I see what you mean about the "water mantle" now, I was originally thinking I would be able to resleeve it for the larger bore. Cams are easy to deal with, will need the profiles reground anyway from what I understand, meet a guy while I was in the US that had a shop designing cams and said to contact him once I'm at that stage for help on profiles. Bigger valves and ports more difficult, doable but easier to get 550 ones as you say.

Thanks again for all the photos and measurements.
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: Night Vision on April 24, 2007, 07:46:14 AM
Quote from: kiwibum on April 24, 2007, 04:09:35 AM

.... Anyone interested in 400 gearing, flywheel, short bar raisers, 83 style foot pegs etc? Maybe could do a swap for some 550 heads & cylinders.


I would be interested... the snazzy XZ400 seat with the seat strap would be desireable too.
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: kiwibum on April 24, 2007, 06:50:56 PM
Coil, NV
I can accommodate both of you, the more 550 engine parts I have as spares the better. I've bought the bike in the auction plus I have a spare already, I've been considering collecting spare bikes since some parts might be useful to you guys in the US.
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: XZv2 on May 07, 2007, 04:15:22 PM
Hi, Kiwibum and Robin Hood,
Kiwibum, at last I had time to measure the valves: the valve sizes of the 400 are 27 mm inlet valves and 23 mm exhaust valves (550 has 31 mm inlet and 26 mm exh., real big difference).
I also have a set of 550 Euro primary gears (72/34 teeth) for you in exchange for a 400 set. These 72/34 gears are certainly the best for an over-550 XZ.
I sent an email with photo of the heads to your email address. I hear from other people sometimes my outgoing or incoming mail is not working??!!
You can mail me at xzv2@hotmail.com. It works now.
Robin Hood, I sent you an email a few weeks ago on the 400 parts you might need. Mail me at xzv2@hotmail.com if you need parts. 
XZv2
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: The Prophet of Doom on May 07, 2007, 08:32:22 PM
Recently I discovered a XZ400 Supplementary manual, which I scanned and sent to Lucky for inclusion on his manuals CD.  This has all the measurements (and clearances) you can shake your stick at.

According to this the valve diameter for the for the 400 are IN 31mm (1.22in) EX 26mm (1.02in) so if XZv2 is correct heres a warning that all the data may not be correct, or there may be differences between XZ400 models

Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: Night Vision on May 07, 2007, 09:36:39 PM
Quote from: roro on May 07, 2007, 08:32:22 PM
Recently I discovered a XZ400 Supplementary manual, which I scanned and sent to Lucky for inclusion on his manuals CD.  This has all the measurements (and clearances) you can shake your stick at.

According to this the valve diameter for the for the 400 are IN 31mm (1.22in) EX 26mm (1.02in) so if XZv2 is correct heres a warning that all the data may not be correct, or there may be differences between XZ400 models


or that the manuals contain mis-information... seems like a coincidence that they are the same size as the 550?
I would bet on XZv2's measurements being the correct values.
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: The Prophet of Doom on May 08, 2007, 05:16:52 AM

Quoteor that the manuals contain mis-information... seems like a coincidence that they are the same size as the 550?
I would bet on XZv2's measurements being the correct values.

Yeah that's what I meant.  I was trying to warn peopple that the books should not be taken as gospel, but unfortunately ended up slurring XZv2's good name.  I apologise for this XZv2, and will re-word myself...

According to this the valve diameter for the for the 400 are IN 31mm (1.22in) EX 26mm (1.02in) so if XZv2 is correct (and I assume he is as he has a valve and a ruler in his hand) heres a warning that all the data (in the supplement) may not be correct, or there may be differences between XZ400 models.

I know that there are at least some differences between XZ400s, for example my 400 and the one parked down the road do not have slotted disks but most I have seen do;  mine has air forks, but the one down the road does not; neither have the alloy footpegs or adjustable rear shock that XZv2 talks about on his site.  Neither of us have been into the insides of our engines so cannot comment on this.

Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: XZv2 on May 08, 2007, 02:24:54 PM
Hi, Roro, and NightVision,
I photographed the 550 and 400 heads next to each other, clearly showing the difference in valve sizes. Usually I can show pictures on xz550.nl but our provider changed last week and, unfortunately I cannot upload new pictures for the time being. I will try to put the picture in this post. If you doubliclick on the picture you can see that the 400 head (left) has smaller valves.
My measurements of the 550 valves (31 and 26 mm) are confirmed by the Yamaha data (Euro Service manual 550 page 8-6; 550RJ US Service Manual page 8-4).
Anyway with the smaller bore of the 400 (73 mm in stead of 80 mm of the 550) it would be a wonder to have two 31 mm inlet valves side by side and a sparkplug in the centre......

Roro, I am very glad that you mention the data published in the 400 supplement. In this way we know where the faults are. There are more wrong data in the XZ manuals, for instance the Yamaha service manual of the Euro XZ550 wants you to believe the 5th speed gear wheel is a 70 teeth pinion gear in the XZ gearbox on page 8-71 (XZ550RJ manual has the same fault on page 8-23), and Haynes copied this fault on page 84). I counted the teeth of the 550 wheel and the correct figure is 30 teeth.

Very interesting, Roro to hear that there exists a XZ400 supplementary manual, I suppose it is a Yamaha Service Manual? Where was it published and as supplement to which Service Manual? Is it clear from the manual for which market the bikes of this Service Manual were meant. I have different Yamaha Service Manuals for the European 1982 550 models and for the US 1982 550RJ models. Is there perhaps also a different manual for the East Asia, Australia+New Zealand XZ550 + supplement XZ400??
XZv2

 
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: The Prophet of Doom on May 08, 2007, 05:43:05 PM
The XZ400 Supplement I have is 14X-28197-20, 1st edition, Sept 1985, Yamaha Motor Co, Japan.  It's for the 14x models starting Frame number 14X-000101 to to be read in conjunction with the  XZ550RJ Service Manual 16R-28197-60. 
I also have a XZ550 Service Guide, Yamaha Motor Co, Overseas Service Dept, Oct 1981, but it does not have a ref code on it.  Specs in this are for Euro models.

It's more common for Aus/NZ to get Euro models than Asia market models.  The 14x supplement includes wiring for the annoying speed flasher so am assuming for Asian market 400s.  The XZ400 sold here in the 80s did not have these.  Suits me as mine was imported used from Japan.

I have scanned both of these (10MB total) and sent to Lucky for inclusion on the CD as I believe he has somehow paid for the rights to publish these. 

Perhaps the administrators could start a sticky for manual errata?
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: XZv2 on May 09, 2007, 03:02:53 PM
Thanks, Roro, that's interesting information! The XZ550RJ Service Manual for the US models that I have has code 11616-02-82. The 550 Manual you have probably is for non-US 550RJ models?

Very interesting to know if in your 550RJ Manual in Chapter 2 under IDLE SPEED is mentioned in a frame :
Engine idle 1,100 +/- 50 r/min Pilot air screw 2 +/- 1/2 turn (such as in my Euro book), or just
Engine idle 1,300 +/- 50 r/min (such as in my US 550RJ Manual).

The EURO Service Manual is a trilingual book (English, German & French) and it has code 11U-28197-80, but that code is not mentioned in the book (such as in the RJ book) but in the right side corner of the front cover where is also mentioned XZ550 and '82.

Would indeed be a very good idea to look for a place where all misprints, typos and faults of the XZ Manuals are available for all of us. I just correct my manuals by hand if I see or are informed on such faults.
XZv2
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: haunter on May 09, 2007, 09:49:13 PM
well, speak quickly if you want em, before I toss em, I have a spare 550 engine with a bad piston and second gear, its got some very mild rust in the jug bore, nothing a hone shouldnt fix.

its mostly apart.

I would be willing to ship it for cost to anyone who wants it for checking, of course that could cost ALOT to get down under!
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: The Prophet of Doom on May 11, 2007, 04:40:48 PM
XZv2, neither of mine specify number of turns though do note idle speed.
550=1100
400=1300 +/- 50
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: The Prophet of Doom on May 11, 2007, 07:39:06 PM
I tell a lie,
The XZ400 Supplement shows under Carburetor:

Pilot Screw (PS) 3-1/2 +/- 1/2

Other carb Specs:
Main Jet Front 107.5 Rear 110
Main Air Jet 1.8
Throttle Valve #120
Pilt Jet #60
Pilot Air Jet #145
Valve Seat 1.8
Starter Jet #40
Fuel Level 21 +/- 1mm
Float Height 36 +/- 1mm
Idle Speed 1,300 +_/- 50 rpm
Vacuum pressure at idle > 150mm (5.91 in Hg)
Vacuum Sync Difference < 10mm (0.39 in Hg)
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: XZv2 on May 12, 2007, 01:34:10 AM
Thank you, Roro. I was interested in the first place whether your XZ550RJ Manual shows the "US-RJ data" (1300 rpm and no indication of pilot screw adjustment) for the 550 or the Euro data (1100 rpm +/- 50 and 2 turns out +/- 1/2).
Surprisingly, it shows a mix of both: 1100 and no indication of pilot screw adjustment.
And the supplement for the 400 does give a pilot screw adjustment.
Thank you for giving also the complete data for the 400 carburettor.
With your permission I will copy these data to the XZ400 topic on xz550.nl, mentioning: "source: Yamaha Service Manual, supplement for XZ400, # 14X-28197-20, 1st edition, published Sept 1985, data kindly supplied by roro"   
I have there a photo of an XZ400 carburetter with some data.
Would be nice to make the data complete with those you give here.
Only if you agree to this, of course.
XZv2
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: The Prophet of Doom on May 12, 2007, 02:00:41 AM
Sure, no problems.
Let me know what other data you want.  I don't want to incur the wrath of the copyright nazis, but they cannot restrict the distribution of facts

Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: XZv2 on May 12, 2007, 05:33:19 AM
Thanks, roro, that very kind. We're not publishing the content of books that people have available for sale....; we're just making available maintenance data to people addicted to a motorcycle of which production stopped 20+ years ago.....

As to other interesting data: I do not know what other data are in the XZ400 supplement.
Are there any illustrations in it that apply specifically to the 400?
If you compare the Appendices and Maintenance Spefications at the end of 400 Supplementary Manual with those of the 550RJ, you will see where any differences are. Those are interesting for 400 owners, I think.
Most of the maintenance procedures are similar as those of the 550, and most of the data are similar, I expect.
Thanks again, XZv2
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: The Prophet of Doom on May 12, 2007, 08:26:32 AM
I don't have time to go through it, line by line at the moment; perhaps after exams.  There are not many drawings, and these are mostly for explaining the measurements.  There is a full wiring diagram though.
The worst thing about the 400 is the lack of self cancelling indicators.
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: XZv2 on May 12, 2007, 09:22:18 AM
roro, take your time, no hurry. Exams are more important. Yes, self-cancelling indicators are attractive. I did not know the 400 does not have this. Success with your exams!
XZv2
Title: Re: XZ400 Discovery Tour
Post by: XZv2 on May 24, 2007, 03:19:44 AM
I ended my discovery tour of the "little sister of the XZ550".
The 400 engine was dismantled side-by-side with a 550. I collected all information I wanted. This information is available to everybody interested at xz550.nl topic xz400. I added also the carburetion data of the 400 supplied by roro. I removed the data on the rear shock absorber that probably is an aftermarket product.
I use at present 400 primary gears in my sidecarXZ, and I will use the light flywheel, the light balancer shaft, and the "close ratio" 5th gear wheels of the 400 engine in future projects.
I want to thank all of you for your interest, wonderful help and of course supply of information.
Finally, an extra thank you for Simcha who provided the 400 engine and who lifted, with a friend, the engine in the trunk of my car.
XZv2