Riders Of Vision

General => Board Archives => Topic started by: inanecathode on March 18, 2007, 10:44:00 PM

Title: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on March 18, 2007, 10:44:00 PM
Hi everybody :D
I'm new to the Vision (1982 according to the title, 1983 according to the seller). I recently bought one for a paltry 400 bucks. Seat in good condition, all plastics present, free rolling in neutral, parked in a shed for a year cause the guy didnt have time to fix it properly.

The good:
Plastics mostly there (missing left side battery cover)
Seat perfect besides a small tear right in the middle
Electrics good (possibly not the starter, more on that later) No, electrics bad. Bad electrics bad!
Brand new tires (yaaaaay)
Original keys (nice huh?)
Fork seals apparently good Nope, both bad it appears (h2o agrees)
$400 why not?

The bad:
Starter (i can hear a relay or something clicking, after reading this site over a bit i think it might be full of oil)
Clutch won't return (clutch lever pulled, won't return, clutch constantly disengaged [i've had this on a suzuki before, and it was just the clutch splines crapped up])

The ugly:
Part of the driveshaft is uglified with rust (surface rust though, no worries)

Im looking forward to sharing my Vision Journey with you all :D


Part two:
(im deciding to include this in the same post as to not spam the forum with my stupid questions :D)

Has anyone here ever had their clutch not want to return back? Where is the clutch pack anyway, i can see the cable going to a little armature thats directly beneath the middle of the case (i hope its not there :o) What precautions/procedures do i need to take to get to the clutch pack to see if its just sticking because it's dry? Turns out the cable was siezed up, another donation for this one!

How do i go about fiding the following:
New oil seal for the starter Found this via a kind donation by Night Vision (thanks bro!)
Brake pads for the front disc Dennis kirk! Woo!
Battery cover (left side) Still looking for this actually
Also turned out the engine was siezed, or the transmission, or clutch pack, something was. Nothing a little fifth gear and epic grunting couldnt solve


Thanks in advance for your help :D
(pictures on the way :D!)


Everything in red is an update circa may second. Decided to do this after searching build threads top and bottom for the solution to problems because they get solved halfway into a thread.
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: reckon on March 18, 2007, 10:57:27 PM
1st thing replace the battery


THEN check it again,...I bet it cranks


the clutch packs like to freeze up after only a short time sitting (3 or more months), kick it into gear and rock the bike back and forth while trying to pull the clutch lever,......it'll take a few tries but it should pop free after a few rocks back and forth,...the clutch is under the right side engine cover, right by the rear brake pedal, you can remove that adjustment cover (looks like a giant flat head screw dead center of the engine cover) use the handle in the tool kit under the seat, or use a big dull chisel, or a quarter in a pair of vice grips to remove the adjustment cover, that lets you look inside and get a better idea if it's just frozen, or totally hosed.


then take it from there,...but DEFINITELY  battery 1st


Welcome to the forum, and to your V
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: Night Vision on March 18, 2007, 11:16:17 PM
Quote from: inanecathode on March 18, 2007, 10:44:00 PM

How do i go about fiding the following:
New oil seal for the starter
Brake pads for the front disc
Battery cover (left side)



welcome to the forum... if you only have one disc up front, it's most likely an '82 (post pics and we'll tell ya)

New oil seal for the starter  : pm me you your name and address, I'll send you one, then go here http://www.ridersofvision.net/Technical/Starter/starter.html

Brake pads for the front disc : eBay / Dennis Kirk

Battery cover (left side): Tiger has lots of parts, go here http://ridersofvision.net/forum/xzindex.php?topic=6172.msg52756#msg52756 
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on March 18, 2007, 11:22:50 PM
Ok, thats cool about the trick to free up the clutch.
I've had the battery on trickle charge all day, my DVOM says it's putting out 12.6 volts (but thats not under load, i don't know if its a phantom charge or not, battery was new last year according to the seller)

How can i tell if the clutch is hosed? Any tell tale signs i'll see when i open up the adjustment cover?

And heres a REALLY stupid question: How do i start it? Transmission in neutral, kill switch in the on position (what are all the switches on both hands btw, all my writing is rubbed off, so all i have is a mess of switches and levers), then.... hit the starter? Are there any silly safety features like a clutch safety switch, kickstand switch (lol, ive heard of those before) or anything like that? This is my first electric start bike (my right leg loves it already :D)

Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: h2olawyer on March 18, 2007, 11:35:58 PM
The Vision has both the clutch & kickstand safety switches.  Tranny in neutral & clutch switch is bypassed.

Switches:
Left hand top to bottom
Hi / Lo headlight beam
Turn Signals
Horn
Choke Lever

Right hand top to bottom
Kill / Run switch
Start button

Should take care of those questions.  Welcome to the Forum & Vision ownership!

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: Kevin on March 18, 2007, 11:49:13 PM
Welcome to the Vision group. Starting procedure for these bikes, set the petcock to prime,pump the throttle a couple of times,full choke, cross fingerrs. :o
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: reckon on March 19, 2007, 12:40:33 AM
Quote from: inanecathode on March 18, 2007, 11:22:50 PM
I've had the battery on trickle charge all day, my DVOM says it's putting out 12.6 volts (but thats not under load, i don't know if its a phantom charge or not, battery was new last year according to the seller)

a new battery only costs about $50-$70, and that way, you'd know fast, if it's the starter, or just the battery.

they ALWAYS say they put a "new battery in it last year", and "last year" usually works out to 3 or 4 summers ago.

the charging systems on these bikes aren't the longest lasting, or the best designed, so a NEW battery is CRITICAL to keeping your stator in good health (part of the charging system) so getting a NEW battery every other year or so, is a smart thing to do, because a stator costs from $70-$150, and takes draining the oil pulling the left side engine cover, not to mention the getting stranded who knows where, as when they go, they just go, with little or no warning.

even though the guy I bought my bike from said "I put a new battery in it", and it's output was fine, I went and got a SLA (sealed lead acid) battery anyway, just to be sure.
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: louthepou on March 19, 2007, 07:10:04 AM
Hi there, welcome!

Just to add to the apready excellent answers stated above:

Begin with starting the bike. Once that's solved, let it warm up a bit, drain the hot oil, replace with new. Start the bike, let it warm up again, and then use the clutch a bit; it may just work. That happened to me on a few used Vision engines.

Cheers!

Lou
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on March 19, 2007, 07:51:02 AM
So the tranny has to be in neutral, and the kickstand up for it to start?
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: Night Vision on March 19, 2007, 07:59:25 AM
the bike will start in gear with the clutch pulled and the kickstand down, but as soon as you let the clutch out, the kickstand safety switch will kill it.
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: YellowJacket! on March 19, 2007, 11:09:35 AM
I'm one of the guys that "just put a battery in it last year" and I can tell you from experience that it is a safe bet that its bad.  Mine would show 12.9 volts when hooked up to the trickle charger, 12.5 right after being disconnected and 10.5 after cranking just a few seconds. I took the battery back to Advanced Autoparts where I got it and the warranty had run out just under a week earlier.  So, it was almost exactly a year old.  A new battery cost me just under 30.00.
As for starting, there is a cut off relay on the side stand.  Many ROVr's have disconnected the relay but lets assume your s isn't.  The bile won't start with the kickstand down.  It will start on the centerstand though.  So, put it up on the center stand, make sure the kickstand is up.
1. Put the choke on 1/2
2. snap the throttle 3 times.
3. wait about 15 to 30 seconds (varies by individual bike)
4. Turn the key to run position
5. press the ignition kill switch in the run position (front down)
6. press the start button.
The bike will at some point start.

As for the clutch, it is possible that the cable is either dirty or bound.  When I first got my bike the cable was very dirty and corroded.  I got a cable luber from a local bike shop and that freed it up nicely.  After rebuilding the bike, I routed the cable worng and it bound up.  I found out - through here - how to correctly route the cable and it worked like a charm.

As for other reasons the bike won't start, the other guys and you are on the right track.  It is possible that there may be oil in the starter.  Could be a relay or a short.  Also, check your fuses and the connectors.

Other litle things like side cover should be easy to find.

With a little work <grin> you should have your bike running.

Welcome to the ROV!

Where are you located at?


David
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: Coil Coyle on March 19, 2007, 12:16:20 PM
Quote from: inanecathode on March 18, 2007, 11:22:50 PM
DVOM says it's putting out 12.6 volts

Welcome, Inane. You need 11+ on the DVOM while cranking.

Jumping from a car will not hurt anything, CRANKING FOR A REAL LONG TIME WHILE HOOKED TO A CAR WILL HURT THE STARTED MOTOR.

$0.02
;)
Coil
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: Kenny on March 19, 2007, 12:31:31 PM
Hi,
   And welcome to the site, fire away with the questions -we have all been in the same boat as in Newbies.
  I would add one item to Dave's starting tecknique "Set your petcock to Prime" I find both our visions respond to this if they have been sitting awhile. Strange though I cannot use the same starting routine for both ie:  one needs the choke (enriching lever) along with three throttle cracks while the other needs only the throttle action.
                      Have fun Ken S
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: Night Vision on March 19, 2007, 12:40:18 PM
Quote from: DaveTN on March 19, 2007, 11:09:35 AM

The bile won't start with the kickstand down. 


"Bile is a thick digestive fluid. It is secreted by the liver and stored in the gallbladder"

my bike starts with the kickstand down... maybe you need your gallbladder back  :D
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: don_vanecek on March 19, 2007, 12:47:11 PM
OK, I'm going to give you a different perspective on this.

If the bike will not crank over no matter what method you have tried, (and you can trace that juice goes down to the starter motor, an easy test, take off the big wire to the starter-tells you other problems as already talked about are not messing you up) then your going to need to take the starter off and see if it is full of oil and needs to be rebuilt.

Now, for step two, you may have had to stick about $70.00 bucks or so into rebuilding the starter first, here is step two.

If you can crank the bike over do not be surprised that it will do nothing. BUT I would suggest-and you may have to take the tank off to do this-that you put a small amount of gas or starter fluid directly into the carbs and see it the bike will run-all but just for a second or two. If it will run for just that brief moment or two you then know that it should then be worth your while to proceed to solve the other problems a V that has sat will have such as cleaning the carbs up. Please be careful doing this but in my opinion this will tell you if you have a working machine that just needs some TLC to be an everyday rider (or should be worth sticking some additional funds and time into).

2 more cents worth.
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on March 19, 2007, 01:45:39 PM
I'm located in colorado for whoever asked,
Is the battery that's in the vision, is that one thats commonly available, or do i need to get a special order deal?

I'll pick up a cable luber while i'm down in town today, if the clutch cable is bound that'll do 'er, if it isnt bound, i bet it needs a good lubing anyway.
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on March 19, 2007, 01:48:02 PM
I'm located in colorado for whoever asked,
Is the battery that's in the vision, is that one thats commonly available, or do i need to get a special order deal?

I'll pick up a cable luber while i'm down in town today, if the clutch cable is bound that'll do 'er, if it isnt bound, i bet it needs a good lubing anyway.
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: Night Vision on March 19, 2007, 01:54:55 PM
Wal-Mart carries a satisfactory battery for the V for around $35.

wow, that's two Colorodeos lately..
you do know there's a big V meet in CO this year right?
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: h2olawyer on March 19, 2007, 02:00:58 PM
Another Colorado Visionary?  Where you at?  I'm in Ft. Collins.  There's another in the Denver area.  Were a couple others in that area as well, but haven't heard from them in a while.

The battery is readily available (amazing) size is YB14L-A2.  Wal-Mart, Target, Kmart, Batteries Plus, Interstate Batteries all carry them.  I've even seen them in some Checker Auto stores.  Wal-Mart is probably cheapest $35 or so.  Got mine (sealed maintenance free - not AGM) from Interstate $70.  No atter which battery you get, keep it on a battery tender (float charger) when not out riding.  Keeps the battery in good condition & helps it last much longer.

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: YellowJacket! on March 19, 2007, 05:01:14 PM
Quote from: Night Vision on March 19, 2007, 12:40:18 PM
Quote from: DaveTN on March 19, 2007, 11:09:35 AM

The bile won't start with the kickstand down. 


Yup, yer right.  was thinking about my recent surgery.  ;D

David

"Bile is a thick digestive fluid. It is secreted by the liver and stored in the gallbladder"

my bike starts with the kickstand down... maybe you need your gallbladder back  :D
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on March 19, 2007, 07:23:25 PM
I'm located up near Black Hawk if you're familiar with the area.

Well i got the battery back in the bike and hooked up (correctly i assume, hooded wire/red wire goes on positive, correct?). With the key off my dvom reads 12.6 volts, key on 11.5.
Upon starting:Rather loud click/quiet clunk and nothing. DVOM says it goes from 11.5 volts to 3 (7 volt drain o_O)
I think i can feel a bit of a click from the starter, and definitely a loud, feelable click/clunk coming from a cylinder mounted near the battery (starter selenoid?)

I'm thinking either the battery is pooped from sitting out for a year, or the starter is flooded (just guessing, i have no idea outside of a dead battery why i'd clack, but not turn the starter)

I couldn't get the clutch lever to go back, i put it in gear, rocked it back and forth, even went down the driveway (uhg, had to push it back up) at 15mph mph and popped it up into second, still nothing. (If it helps any, the clutch is pulled back enough that it barely starts slowing down if i pop it in gear while in motion.

I had the clutch inspection cover (giant plastic screw/cover) off, and im not seeing anything other than a bolt coming through with a nut on it, and a ring of bolts. Is there something i should be looking for? Tell me if this is a good plan: Try to take the clutch cable off and see if its actually the cable or the clutch pack itself. If it's the cable then i should lube it? (what are these exactly, i couldnt find any at harbor freight) If it's the clutch pack it's self, i figure i'll just pull the right side cover off and um... hit it with something?

Anyway, thanks for your continual help.
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: Lucky on March 19, 2007, 07:54:01 PM
definetly pull the cable & see if it's frozen...after sitting a year, it's likely.  also, if i remember right, there is a spring on the pivot under the bike that the cable hooks to. is yours there?

no, don't "Hit stuff".  get a manual for the bike (i offer them on CD plus a ton of other stuff as well, pm me if interested) & that will guide you thru testing & repair...

--Lucky
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: h2olawyer on March 19, 2007, 08:26:39 PM
I know the area fairly well - Blackhawk & Central City.  Kind of ruined the towns when they allowed casino gambling, though.  Haven't been there since.  Hope you aren't closely tied to the gaming industry.  If so, I don't mean any harm.  A former Forest Service associate of my dad moved there after he retired.

One of my favorite rides in this area is from Estes Park to Nederland.  You're not too much farther down that road.

Once I get my V running & charging again - should be next week - I can take a ride down your way for a visit & see how you're proceeding - provided the roads are getting sand free.

Definitely lube your clutch cable.  You can make a lube setup by using some plastic wrap around the cable, sealed around the housing with a rubber band.  Pour a little oil into the "funnel" and let it  drain down until you see some coming out the bottom end of the cable.  Even if that's not your problem, it will serve a necessary maintenance function.  A cable luber is a small item that attaches to the end of the cable & allows you to spray chain / cable lube directly into the housing.  Most motorcycle shops should carry them or be able to order one for you.

Here's one by Motion Pro from Dennis Kirk:

www.denniskirk.com/jsp/search/search.jsp?resultType=results&store=Main&searchString=cable%2Bluber%2Bis_nla%253A%2B0%2B%2Bbrand_id%253A%2B498&userString=cable+luber&page=1 (http://www.denniskirk.com/jsp/search/search.jsp?resultType=results&store=Main&searchString=cable%2Bluber%2Bis_nla%253A%2B0%2B%2Bbrand_id%253A%2B498&userString=cable+luber&page=1)

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: Retro Randy on March 19, 2007, 08:59:58 PM
Quote from: inanecathode on March 18, 2007, 10:44:00 PM
Hi everybody :D
I'm new to the Vision (1982 according to the title, 1983 according to the seller). I recently bought one for a paltry 400 bucks. Seat in good condition, all plastics present, free rolling in neutral, parked in a shed for a year cause the guy didnt have time to fix it properly.

The good:
Plastics mostly there (missing left side battery cover)
Seat perfect besides a small tear right in the middle
Electrics good (possibly not the starter, more on that later)
Brand new tires (yaaaaay)
Original keys (nice huh?)
Fork seals apparently good
$400 why not?

The bad:
Starter (i can hear a relay or something clicking, after reading this site over a bit i think it might be full of oil)
Clutch won't return (clutch lever pulled, won't return, clutch constantly disengaged [i've had this on a suzuki before, and it was just the clutch splines crapped up])

The ugly:
Part of the driveshaft is uglified with rust (surface rust though, no worries)

Im looking forward to sharing my Vision Journey with you all :D


Part two:
(im deciding to include this in the same post as to not spam the forum with my stupid questions :D)

Has anyone here ever had their clutch not want to return back? Where is the clutch pack anyway, i can see the cable going to a little armature thats directly beneath the middle of the case (i hope its not there :o) What precautions/procedures do i need to take to get to the clutch pack to see if its just sticking because it's dry?

How do i go about fiding the following:
New oil seal for the starter
Brake pads for the front disc
Battery cover (left side)


Thanks in advance for your help :D
(pictures on the way :D!)

welcome to ROV. If you need parts I have some in the "swap shop" section of the forum.
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on March 19, 2007, 09:12:05 PM
Actually i live right on highway 119, the highway that goes between estes park and black hawk, small world, eh? Blackhawk itself is totally gone, replaced by casinos, central city is alright though, still all the old buildings around.

Is there anyway to force the oil from the luber down inside the cable, i'm thinking if its frozen the oil will just sit in the funnel and not drain down through the cable.

I havent checked directly but i do remember a spring being hooked around the pivot down there. I nudged it a bit with a deadblow and a screwdriver (lightly, dont worry :P) and it didnt budge.

I did order a repair manual, haynes both for my vision and my xt250 (anyone know any xt250 forums lol?)

h2o if you want to swing by some time that'd be cool :D, maybe go for a trail right with my dualsport :P
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: QBS on March 19, 2007, 09:17:37 PM
Very rare for a clutch to stick in the disengaged position.  Investigate clutch cable routing.  Disconnect cable from clutch arm under right hand side of engine and see if the arm doesn't move back to engaged position.  Suspect either corroded or misrouted cable.

Run car battery power straight to the starter motor using jumper cables.  Positive is connected to the starter motors' power wire attachment lug. Negative is grounded to the engine or frame.  Bike should be in neutral.  If starter motor is good, engine will crank with authority.  Poor cranking means starter probably has a bad oil seal.  Strong cranking can indicate a list of possible problems including: corroded electrical connections at the battery or starter solenoid(however, your click clunk sounds like the solenoid is being activated), and or, a bad battery.
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: h2olawyer on March 19, 2007, 09:46:54 PM
Quote from: inanecathode on March 19, 2007, 09:12:05 PM
Is there anyway to force the oil from the luber down inside the cable, i'm thinking if its frozen the oil will just sit in the funnel and not drain down through the cable.

I did order a repair manual, haynes both for my vision and my xt250 (anyone know any xt250 forums lol?)

h2o if you want to swing by some time that'd be cool :D, maybe go for a trail right with my dualsport :P

With the plastic wrap method, gravity is all that gets the oil down the cable housing.  The lube tool used a spray type chain / cable lube.  It is forced into the housing by the pressure in the spray can.

Lucky has a FANTASTIC CD-Rom with all the repair manuals, tons of advertising scans, road tests, and other info for the Vision.  Well worth the investment.  Just received mine today.  Well worth the investment & I already have the factory & Haynes repair manuals (analog versions).

When I get the Vision charging again, I'll need to take a road test.  I'll let you know when & maybe we can meet up.  Would like to visit my dad's old work associate & see how he's doing.  He was also my old Boy Scout leader.

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on March 19, 2007, 09:58:20 PM
Cool man, sounds good. I'll get a car on it tomorrow, as well as shoot some penetrating oil down the clutch cable.
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: Tiger on March 20, 2007, 05:37:12 AM
Quote from: inanecathode on March 19, 2007, 09:58:20 PM
I'll get a car on it tomorrow

:) Hi and welcome to the "Family"... 8) If you use a car...make sure the cars ignition is switched OFF.

                               
8).......TIGER....... 8)
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on March 20, 2007, 07:56:38 AM
Quote from: Tiger on March 20, 2007, 05:37:12 AM
Quote from: inanecathode on March 19, 2007, 09:58:20 PM
I'll get a car on it tomorrow

:) Hi and welcome to the "Family"... 8) If you use a car...make sure the cars ignition is switched OFF.

                               
8).......TIGER....... 8)

Ah! Thank you VERY much, i was actually thinking this and decided that it was best to keep the car running for more juice :o!
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on March 20, 2007, 08:11:01 PM
Turns out it doesnt matter how much juice i have, because theres an open short in the starter. From the car right to the starter i touch the lead to it, and ZAP giant spark, lots of sound, no turning.
I took the starter out (probably the stupidest way, i didnt see how it could only be held on with one screw (turns out two, but one was missing [thank your amature machanic]) so i undid the long phillips head bolts, and pulled on the end of the starter. You can guess what happened then, luckily it was all still more or less together when i finally got the mounting end pried off.
After cleaning it of dirt (dropped on the ground, dirt driveway :D) i discovered a few things:
1) Ancient puddle of oil inside the starter casing (solidified somewhat into a gray paste
2) Someone has been into this starter before, for a few reasons:
    a) One of the orings that encompass the starter case was split, then glued back together/onto the starter
    b) The armature is scarred with sloppy tool work
    c) The commuter had been ghetto undercut with what might have been a chisel
3) The commuter is jacked up real bad, undercut with a chisel and apparently a shakey hand, the flats of the commuter are scarred to hell, and for the brushes sake, thank god it never turned, it would have ground those brushes down in a hurry
4) Oil, everywhere, inside the starter
5) I am an idiot, for two reasons:
    a) I didnt scribe the starter, at all, so even if i can get it back together, i wont know which part goes where
    b) Didnt spend the time fiding out how the starter comes out, so i ended up splitting the starter while on the bike (duh)
    c) (Potentially the most damaging) forgot to unbolt the power wire going to the starter when i threw the jumpers on there, thank god the selenoid wasnt activated or a recon i would have sent 24 volts through the poor thing :o

Anyway, i dont have a camera to get pictures, but it looks like the commuter is jacked. The flats are kinda pushed into eachother, and whats worse is the vertical portion (part that slopes out from the axis) is all pushed together too. I dont know if it's salvagable, or if it would actually be worth salvaging.
How do i test if the flats are touching? I dont know really how a starter works, and i imagine the ohm setting on my dvom wont really help, as the coils are touching inside the armature.

Which leads right on into my next question :D Is it worth rebuilding this? Its not just the seal, its the commuter/armature, seal, and the lack of scribage that leads me to think that its not really worth rebuilding. I don't trust professionals much in stuff like this (due to the fact that to do good work you have to care about what you're working on) and the guy who sold me the bike said "i had a mechanic work on it" and he jacked it up anyway. How much are new/rebuilt starters? How much would just the armature/commuter (in good condition) be, and would it be worth buying just that, and swapping my crap one for that one?



Act II: The clutch

Good news here (for what it's worth) while the oil was draining (curiously golden, lack of use altogether) VERY slowly (bike got cooooooold last night) i was dinking around with the clutch pivot thingamajig and happen to pry it out further, and it .... Moved! I then pried it out further, launched some profanity and tongue maneuvering at it and got the cable free, and the clutch pivot snapped right back to where it was supposed to, leaving me with the completely (omg is it ever) frozen clutch cable. I HIGHLY doubt i'll be able to free this, vice grips and a vise couldnt get the cable to budge, i think it's trashed.

Which leads me to my second question :D How much is a rebuilt/new clutch cable? Doesnt seem too special outside of the little steel circle that routes into the ring in the case right next to the pivot.


So in summary for those who are lazy like me (:D) and dont want to read this drivel:
Clutch cable is frozen, likely trashed
Starter commuter is all sorts of messed up, likely trashed
How much are clutch cables, rebuilt or new?
How much are starters, rebuilt or new?
Is it worth replacing/rebuilding just the armature/commuter?
How do i test the commuter to see if the flats are touching?
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: kwells on March 20, 2007, 08:30:08 PM
you need this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Yamaha-OEM-Clutch-Cable-XZ550-XZ-550-1982_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ50462QQitemZ270056057031QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V

that will take care of that...
sounds like you need in the very least a diagram to get ur starter back together...or perhaps Tiger can assist in providing a working version to you or even both items
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: Tiger on March 20, 2007, 09:16:58 PM
Quote from: kwells on March 20, 2007, 08:30:08 PM
you need this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Yamaha-OEM-Clutch-Cable-XZ550-XZ-550-1982_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ50462QQitemZ270056057031QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V

that will take care of that...
sounds like you need in the very least a diagram to get ur starter back together...or perhaps Tiger can assist in providing a working version to you or even both items

:'(...Sorry, S.O.L. when it comes to starter motor's, they are like rocking horses shite around these parts :'( However, I should have a used working clutch cable...

                                     
8).......TIGER....... 8)
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: QBS on March 20, 2007, 09:30:35 PM
Suggest you forget about any thought of salvaging your starter motor.  Its' got way too much baggage to deal with.  Start searching ebay, junk yards, and maybe Old Biker Barn(google it) for a used replacement.  Get Lucky's CD.  It might be possible to salvage your clutch cable with PB Blaster, but in the long run you'll probably be better off with a new one.
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on March 20, 2007, 10:04:35 PM
It might not be so bad actually, in my haste to diagnose the commuter i forgot to test whether the brushes, even if the terminal was grounded. I figured it might not be after thinking a bit because of two things:
1) I didnt see any burn marks on the commuter, if it was such a fat short, there had to be some sort of scortch mark
2) I didnt clean the oil totally off the cap portion

For about 30 seconds, i had conductance from the positive brush to the cap metal, then it went away. Even stranger is that i got 10 ohms or so between the negetive brush and the positive terminal. Even more worrying was that with the armature inserted and sitting where it's supposed to, i get ZERO resistance from the case to the positive terminal...

Perhaps i could clean up the commuter a bit, run a chisel across the gaps, sand it a bit then just cleaaaaan the thing?  :P ::)


Edit: PS Pictures coming soon of the starter AND the bike :D (just a hint, the pipes are /fantastically/ clean and rust free :D)

Edit2: The more i think about it the more it looks like somebody looked at the bike, said "bad starter" took the starter apart, cleaned it, maybe put new brushes in (brushes look brand new), tried to start it, it shorted, then said "Eh, it's a Vision, of course it doesnt run"

Edit3: (gah, keep thinking of things to tell you guys) The starter looks keyed, and other than screwing up the shims (i think they're shims, thin washers on either side of the armature [omg that explains the weird wearing, previous inept mechanic screwed up the shims and ended up smashing the brushes against the side of the commuter]) i dont think i can put it together wrong, maybe put the planetary off by a tooth, but i can tell its wrong by just turning it by hand me thinks.
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: h2olawyer on March 20, 2007, 10:29:20 PM
You WILL know if the planetary gears are off by a tooth.  It will be very difficult to turn.

Glad you are getting things sorted out.

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: YellowJacket! on March 20, 2007, 10:54:44 PM
You might want to look into having the starter rebuilt.  I got lucky and drove 50 miles to a literal hole in the wall shop (aint they the best though) with piles of old starters and alternators on the floor and got mine rebuilt for 50.00.  When I got it back it looked brand new.  And better yet... it worked.
Mine was probably in better shape than yours.  It was filled with oil and the brushes were crap, and there was the goo in it too.  :o

Oh, and to reiterate that battery thing.  (even though thats less of a problem for you now)..I left mine on the tender overnight until the green light came on and wham started right up.  These bikes are battery hogs.  They lovem fully charged.

David
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: h2olawyer on March 20, 2007, 11:26:38 PM
My V has lived on a battery tender for three years.  I agree - these bikes require all the battery you can give 'em.

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: Lucky on March 21, 2007, 12:10:30 AM
PLEASE don't use a chisel to undercut the mica on the comutator!

a simple & effective, (& correct!) tool is to use a fine tooth hacksaw blade. get a handle for it (fits around the blade) or wrap it in electrical tape to hold it.

--Lucky
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on March 21, 2007, 07:44:40 AM
I'm lucky enough to have an electrical system GOD for a instructor in my school, who specializes in stereos and starting systems, i'll take the kit and kaboodle to school and have him look it over. Im definetly thinking fixing whatever is hard shorting should be a priority, before i go get the thing rebuilt.

How do i go about getting the clutch cable and new starter seal on the way here? How does it work, buying something from somebody on this forum o_O?
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on March 21, 2007, 08:02:18 AM
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f40/inanecathode/HPIM0612Small.jpg)
Parts explosion! Boom!


(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f40/inanecathode/HPIM0613Small.jpg)
Tooling marks?


(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f40/inanecathode/HPIM0614Small.jpg)
You can see the edges of the commuter pushed into eachother


(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f40/inanecathode/HPIM0616Small.jpg)
Some sloppy chiseling here if you ask me!


(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f40/inanecathode/HPIM0617Small.jpg)
Brushes look fan-diggity-tastic. Not even worn round yet!




I think it's important to mention that theres NO burn marks on the end of the commuter, the short wasnt here, or hasnt been here yet, it appears as if the current has jumped through the cap, or the brushes at the cap before even reaching the commuter. Doesnt mean that it wouldnt have shorted at the commuter anyway however.
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: Lucky on March 21, 2007, 08:07:59 AM
that actually looks fairly normal.. not pretty, but they work.
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: Night Vision on March 21, 2007, 08:22:54 AM
if you want a starter nose seal, I told you to PM me your address and I'd mail you one.

Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: Coil Coyle on March 21, 2007, 09:56:45 AM
You need to grind a fine tooth hacksaw blade until it is as thin as the gap between the commutator bars. Then saw out just the copper that is bridging between the bars. You want to have no connection between the bars down in the grooves, just the brown insulation. Then smooth the edges with a file, sandstone or sandpaper (silica). If you use garnet or emery paper you will short the commutator with the abrasive.

;)
Coil

Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: YellowJacket! on March 21, 2007, 10:42:40 AM
Quote from: inanecathode on March 21, 2007, 07:44:40 AM
I'm lucky enough to have an electrical system GOD for a instructor in my school, who specializes in stereos and starting systems, i'll take the kit and kaboodle to school and have him look it over. Im definetly thinking fixing whatever is hard shorting should be a priority, before i go get the thing rebuilt.

How do i go about getting the clutch cable and new starter seal on the way here? How does it work, buying something from somebody on this forum o_O?

There are a couple ways we do it.
Some of us just give each other parts.
Some of us trade parts.
Some of us charge a nominal fee.
Some of us sell it outright.
Some of us sell it for a donation to the ROV website to keep it running.
Then there are the auctions.  A few of us (including one "unknown" member) will put up parts for auction through the site.  We'll list a starting and ending time and how the bids are to be submitted.  Kinda like our own "V"-Bay. !hey did I just make up a name for our auction site!?!?
Tiger has his own "parts emporium" that he updates regularly.
And, a lot of us will post good finds on ebay in the swap shop forum.  They are most of the time NOT things that we are selling, rather just links to ebay auctions that we feel might be useful to our "family".
Payment is on the honor system.  Many of us use paypal, but a check in the mail is usually acceptable.

BTW, I may have an old, but not stuck clutch cable in my parts box.  I'll look later and let you know.

David
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: Night Vision on March 21, 2007, 11:11:49 AM
"V"bay  :D I like it...
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on March 21, 2007, 11:56:54 AM
Ok, i picked/sawed the gaps between the commutator flats with emory cloth and a jewlers saw, they looked fine, so after a light greasing and some dvom work it all looks how it should.
Put it in a vice, hooked up the neg of my jumpbox to it, touched the positive and "POW" spark again. "What the hell?" i thought, so i got up the nerve and touched the positive and pressed it on the stud on the starter, it sparked a bit but it spun! Im not sure how fast it's supposed to turn, but it turned alright (pretty sure because of the gear reduction it's not supposed to go real fast)

All i have to do now is replace one of the case seals (some nubbin glued a broken one back together) and put the right kind of nose seal into it and its good to go!

Just waiting on a confirmation of who to get my lovely working clutch cable from ;)


PS: For jumping it, i can leave the battery hooked up and jump it like i would another car except with the car not running, correct?
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: dj on March 21, 2007, 12:41:20 PM
Cathode - when testing the starter like that it will spin very fast!  So fast that if you are holding on to it it will jerk out of your hand (learned this by mistake).

Jumping the bike is pretty simple.  Just make sure the car is NOT running, as this will be to much voltage and can damage things.
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: YellowJacket! on March 21, 2007, 02:28:46 PM
I found my spare clutch cable.  Its stuck but in good condition. I'm going to lube it and see if I can unstick it.  If I can, Its yours for the cost of shipping.  The only thing missing is the rubber accordion boot from the end.

I'll get back at you in a little bit after lubing it.

David

EDIT:  A few squitrs of "Dry Slide" and shes as slick as......  well, lets say that it works perfect with no binding at all.  PM me your address and I'll get you a postage quote.  I'll send Priority Mail, so you should get it by the weekend.  ;D

David
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: Lucky on March 21, 2007, 10:23:43 PM
Don't forget, Mutt went & picked all those parts last fall too, his avitar is probably bugging him to get them moving...
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on March 21, 2007, 10:58:26 PM
Oh man, you guys are awesome i swear! I was dreading going through a page long list of part numbers and seal sizes and such >< The clutch cable is going to make my freakin month i swear, i might have this thing running by next week (spring break yeaaaah)

I ran into a bit of a queer situation though today, i wanted to finally get a look at the nose seal installed in this starter as it was 'rebuilt' and i doubted anyone would take the shaft out as its stuck in there pretty good, and behind a couple jesus rings. I took the shaft out and lo and behold theres a seal there. Im not sure what the stock one is supposed to look like, but looks reletively new and if im not mistaken it resembles the kind of nose seal i need. I didnt take it out yet (not sure how to get it out without trashing it [although im replacing it anyway for reasons talked about in a bit]) but the correct seal is supposed to be a spring loaded type, not a balloon type you see on transmission seals, correct? Either way, i need to install a new correct seal anyway, because the starter was loaded with oil, for one of four reasons:
1) The guy was too lazy/ignorant to clean the oil out of the starter (uhhhh why did it fail in the first place? was it.... engine oil?)
2) The seal is actually the stock one, and i have (once again) no idea what i'm looking at
3) The seal is new and it failed because
    a) Its not the right size
    b) Its the right size, but the wrong application for that design

Anyway, i do need to do the new seal, i don't think a dollar fifty or so is too much to spend on extra assuredness.



PS Once again thanks a TONNE for the clutch cable and nose seal guys, you truely have the Vision
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: h2olawyer on March 21, 2007, 11:16:11 PM
If the seal has a spring reinforcement, it is a replacement - simple as that.

You are discovering one of the main reasons the Vision is such a great older bike - the people on this forum are the best.  It's really like a family.  People who haven't heard of the ROV but owned or worked on Visions in the past will likely tell you these were real lemons.  Not at all true.  They do suffer from inherent carb problems, iffy stators and sub-par suspensions, all true.  The engine is one of the most amazing pieces of engineering put into a motorcycle in the early 80s.  Once you get the carbs thoroughly clean & adjusted / synched, the Vision really comes to life.  Then you find you want to upgrade the handling & stopping abilities.  When that's done, you still find yourself longing for the much rarer 83 anyway.  Yet the 82 still provides a real great time.

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: kwells on March 21, 2007, 11:27:33 PM
cept me...i like my 82s...not a fan of the faired 83 is really the reason
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: Coil Coyle on March 22, 2007, 03:50:04 AM
Quote from: inanecathode on March 21, 2007, 10:58:26 PM

1) The guy was too lazy/ignorant to clean the oil out of the starter (uhhhh why did it fail in the first place? was it.... engine oil?)
2) The seal is actually the stock one, and i have (once again) no idea what i'm looking at
3) The seal is new and it failed because
    a) Its not the right size
    b) Its the right size, but the wrong application for that design

A Vision

Inane, Or he put the spring seal lip toward the starter instead of toward the oil. The spring side faces the crankcase, not the starter.

If you used Emery make sure you sawed after the sanding. A singlr tiny grain stuck in the groove will make that spot arc and shortly the bars will short together. Sand silica) is always used to clean DC motor commutators because all of the other abrasives will conduct electricity enough to enable an arc to start between the bars right where the grit is. It soon will bridge with copper thats following the arc.

$0.02
;)
Coil
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: dj on March 22, 2007, 07:28:42 AM
Quote from: inanecathode on March 21, 2007, 10:58:26 PM
Oh man, you guys are awesome i swear! I was dreading going through a page long list of part numbers and seal sizes and such >< The clutch cable is going to make my freakin month i swear, i might have this thing running by next week (spring break yeaaaah)

I ran into a bit of a queer situation though today, i wanted to finally get a look at the nose seal installed in this starter as it was 'rebuilt' and i doubted anyone would take the shaft out as its stuck in there pretty good, and behind a couple jesus rings. I took the shaft out and lo and behold theres a seal there. Im not sure what the stock one is supposed to look like, but looks reletively new and if im not mistaken it resembles the kind of nose seal i need. I didnt take it out yet (not sure how to get it out without trashing it [although im replacing it anyway for reasons talked about in a bit]) but the correct seal is supposed to be a spring loaded type, not a balloon type you see on transmission seals, correct? Either way, i need to install a new correct seal anyway, because the starter was loaded with oil, for one of four reasons:
1) The guy was too lazy/ignorant to clean the oil out of the starter (uhhhh why did it fail in the first place? was it.... engine oil?)
2) The seal is actually the stock one, and i have (once again) no idea what i'm looking at
3) The seal is new and it failed because
    a) Its not the right size
    b) Its the right size, but the wrong application for that design

Anyway, i do need to do the new seal, i don't think a dollar fifty or so is too much to spend on extra assuredness.



PS Once again thanks a TONNE for the clutch cable and nose seal guys, you truely have the Vision

Cathode - It very well could be the "upgraded seal", but if the person who rebuilt the starter before you didn't get all of the old seal out then the new one doesn't fit in properly (causes all kinds of problems).  It can allow oil to leak back in or in some cases to case the starter motor to bind and not want to turn (trust me I know from the first time I rebuilt my starter and didn't get all of the old seal out).  :-[
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on March 22, 2007, 07:39:45 AM
I'll have to pull the seal out to see if its the spring reenforcement. Either way i'm replacing it because it leaks :D
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: dj on March 22, 2007, 07:48:19 AM
Just make sure that when you take the old one out to scrape out every last little bit of the old one, or the new one wont fit right.
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on March 22, 2007, 07:51:37 AM
Will do!  ;D
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on March 23, 2007, 02:50:06 PM
Pictuuuuuuuures!

(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f40/inanecathode/HPIM0626Small.jpg)

Tadaaaa! Note the exhaust!



(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f40/inanecathode/HPIM0625Small.jpg)

It's still RED!



Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: h2olawyer on March 23, 2007, 05:02:29 PM
Good looking start!  With a little time & patience, that engine should shine up great.  Looking at the headlight, looks it had a shark fairing mounted on it at one time.  The gasket around the headlight ring is one clue.  Also, it has the lower mounting bracket still in place, where the front turn signals are located.

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on March 23, 2007, 06:52:14 PM
Quote from: h2olawyer on March 23, 2007, 05:02:29 PM
Good looking start!  With a little time & patience, that engine should shine up great.  Looking at the headlight, looks it had a shark fairing mounted on it at one time.  The gasket around the headlight ring is one clue.  Also, it has the lower mounting bracket still in place, where the front turn signals are located.

H2O

It did? The headlight mounting bracket you speak of, is it a rubber L profile piece that goes around the entire headlight? Is the 'shark' fairing the factory option? What's the lower mounting bracket look like? (the computer i'm on has crappy graphics)
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: h2olawyer on March 23, 2007, 07:23:58 PM
The rubber gasket is the piece between the headlight glass & chrome trim ring.  It seals around part of the shark fairing to keep dust out of the area behind the glass on the fairing.  It should pull out fairly easily, but you might want to loosen the headlight glass to make sure you don't tear it.

The shark fairing was a factory option for the 82 Vision.  See Dave TN's Yellowjacket for an excellent example.  I had one on my V since new - until I got my full fairing a couple years ago.  Said it before - In my opinion, the Vision with the shark fairing is the best looking of the bunch but the full fairing makes riding it more comfortable.  (My opinion only - no offense meant!)

The lower fairing bracket is what your turn signals are mounted to.  It is a kind of formed rod with two threaded holes where the bottom of the fairing is bolted to the bracket. The naked Vision has the turn signals attached to the headlight brackets.  Note the two holes aft of the headlight bucket.  That's the normal mounting point for the turn signals when there is no fairing.  To attach the bracket, the horn cover must be removed as well, so that is missing on yours.  I might have a spare one for you, though.

H2O

Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: Night Vision on March 23, 2007, 07:42:17 PM
... but, you won't need that stuff if you're going to the full fairing....

hang on to it though... it's hard to find the headlight seal and "tow bar" (lower faring mount for the shark faring). you're still missing the ears/upper shark fairing mounts  ...

it's much easier to find the horn cover and put the signals back on the headlight than to find the mounts for the shark faring 
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: h2olawyer on March 23, 2007, 07:59:47 PM
Very true, NV.  Its amazing how much stuff gets removed in order to install the full fairing.

I sold my old shark fairing to Professor Rex after I got the full fairing.  When I bought the bike from him, it had been knocked over while he was in New Orleans for a while.  The fairing body is now very hosed.   :'(  However, I do have all the mounts and am looking for another shark fairing body.  Luckily, the mounting hardware was only tweaked a bit & the windscreen is still in useable condition.  The headlight seal & the gaasket for the glass headlight cover are also in great shape.  The glass cover for the headlight shattered, though.  At least Gustafsson has those available.

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: YellowJacket! on March 23, 2007, 08:40:05 PM
The shark fairing is the one on my bike.

David
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: h2olawyer on March 23, 2007, 09:48:31 PM
Every time I see that yellow bike with the black shark on it, I like it even more.  Great color scheme & the Yellowjacket moniker really fits.  The mirrors even look like antennae!

Not to worry, I won't copy it.   ;D

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on March 23, 2007, 10:25:26 PM
I got my repair manual for my Vision today as well!
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: YellowJacket! on March 24, 2007, 12:01:16 AM
Quote from: h2olawyer on March 23, 2007, 09:48:31 PM
Every time I see that yellow bike with the black shark on it, I like it even more.  Great color scheme & the Yellowjacket moniker really fits.  The mirrors even look like antennae!

Not to worry, I won't copy it.   ;D

H2O

;D
Thanks H2O

I have to post some new pics since I painted the fairing gloss black.

David
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on March 25, 2007, 11:17:46 AM
My lovely lovely new clutch cable came in the mail yesterday! Slicker than snail snot, clean as a whistle it looks like an oem nos part :o
Thanks Dave :D!

(waiting on the starter nose seal, good weather to put er back together)
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: YellowJacket! on March 25, 2007, 12:17:03 PM
Quote from: inanecathode on March 25, 2007, 11:17:46 AM
My lovely lovely new clutch cable came in the mail yesterday! Slicker than snail snot, clean as a whistle it looks like an oem nos part :o
Thanks Dave :D!

(waiting on the starter nose seal, good weather to put er back together)

My pleasure.  Glad to help. ;D

David
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on March 27, 2007, 03:04:54 PM
WOOOOO!  ;D ;D ;D

Starter nose seal got here today! Currently assembling the starter :D

In other news, i got a dirtbike helmet from 1986 i've finished sanding (prep for painting, and to check for damage) and currently painting. Sure it's not a street bike helmet, but it might go cool with my vision :D
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: Night Vision on March 27, 2007, 03:08:00 PM
be very careful with those planetary gears.. they can be very tricky. DO NOT juice your starter until you can turn the final gear by hand.
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on March 27, 2007, 07:10:29 PM
Starter is rebuilt and in (i can turn it by hand)
Clutch cable is in, works fine.

BIG problem though.
I put it up on the stand, put it in gear and tried to hold the clutch in and turn the wheel by hand. That worked fine, until i let the clutch out. Sure the wheel stopped spinning, but i couldnt get it to turn the engine over.
I then put it in the highest gear it could go it, pulled the clutch in and rode down the driveway. I popped the clutch and all that happened was the rear wheel locking up and sliding to a stop. Even with throwing my weight onto the rear part of the seat and popping it at much higher speed i couldnt get the engine to turn over.

What should i do now? Please don't tell me it's the S word  :-[
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: h2olawyer on March 27, 2007, 07:46:52 PM
Try it in second or third gear.

Try tip # 1:

www.xz550.com/tip.html (http://www.xz550.com/tip.html)

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on March 27, 2007, 07:48:16 PM
I dont think the clutch is stuck, it goes in and out fine. With the clutch lever in it rolls, with it out it doesnt (if its in gear, if its in neutral it rolls either way)
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: Night Vision on March 27, 2007, 07:51:38 PM
don't be surprised if you weren't in "high gear".. that's kinda tough to determine unless you know you started in neutral. clicked down once to get into first.... push bike, upshift past neutral two get into second, let clutch out, push bike, ... pull clutch in, shift into third, let clutch out.... etc.. etc...

it's hard to go from first into fifth without things moving
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on March 27, 2007, 07:53:03 PM
I did, i rocked it back and forth and clicked it up until it wouldnt click any more.
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: Night Vision on March 27, 2007, 07:59:46 PM
get a bigger hill!! , or not

I would try turning the bike over "clicking" the starter... I get tuckered out pushing a 500lb bike very far  :P
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: Tiger on March 27, 2007, 08:03:25 PM
Quote from: Night Vision on March 27, 2007, 07:59:46 PM
I get tuckered out pushing a 500lb bike very far  :P

...Quit smokin' then... ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: Night Vision on March 27, 2007, 08:12:32 PM
touche
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: Night Vision on March 27, 2007, 08:17:30 PM
inan.... you can also remove the plate on the center of the left side case and turn the crank with 13mm ? socket to see if she turns over...

take the plugs out to make it ... wheeze... easier  :D
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: YellowJacket! on March 27, 2007, 08:24:19 PM
Did someone say wheeze?  I'm a Respiratory Therapist.  I can help!  ;D

David
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: NewVisionGuy on March 27, 2007, 09:53:55 PM
Quote from: Night Vision on March 27, 2007, 07:59:46 PM
I would try turning the bike over "clicking" the starter... I get tuckered out pushing a 500lb bike very far  :P

I too  get tired  after pushing my V around for a bit.  Last fall, when the stator went out,  I ended up pushing mine two miles.  From now on,  I'm carrying and extra charging system with me when I ride.   ;)     

BTW,   Cathode...  that bike looks remarkable similar to mine.  Nice looking bike.    AWESOME to ride.  I hope you get to experience your Vision on the road soon. 
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on March 27, 2007, 10:21:32 PM
Ok well, it's all under control now. I got sick of the vision gods tormenting me, so i popped it all the way up into 5th and yarred it forwards and backwards as hard as i could. It went "click/snap" then suddenly rolled free. Thinking "aw crap i probably broke something" i turned it around and rolled it down the driveway, popped the clutch and "putputputputput" weee! Un-s-worded!

Invigorated, i pushed it up my driveway (even after it finally working, thats a long driveway man) threw it up on the stand. I left the old battery in to crank it over to take advantage of whatever juice it had left. I hit the starter and got a rather healthy sounding "yamahamahamahamaha" that gradually got a little slower. Not starting (not suprised, i'd be blown away if it actually started). The fuel filter was only about 1/8th full, and wouldnt move with the petcock on prime. The previous owner at some point put on a lawnmower type fuel filter on it (clear plastic cannister type):
A) It's too big
B) It's installed backwards
C) Theres a huge loop of line going down and back up to the filter

This leads me to believe that theres no way, even with a full tank, that there'd be enough pressure to go through the loop and the filter. (is this a fuel pump i see on the petcock by the way? little diaphragm type?). I drained the fuel out of the tank (smelled good, looked a bit opaque for gas) filled it up by about 3 gallons, still no fuel moving through the filter. I'm planning on taking all the fuel line out (its a bit crispy) and putting a little cone type filter inline.


Part Two:
After i figured that the fuel end of the equation isn't happening, i took the tank off (wow, that's EASY, way to go yamaha), took off the air box cover (what's this vacuum pot thing? cold air controller?). Using a bit of gas from the tank i dribbled a small amount into each carb, opened the throttle, hit the starter "yamahamahama BANG!" backfire nearly gave me a quick shave. A bit more gas into the carbs, opening the choke (lol, oops?), moving of my head from directly above the carbs (lol, oops?), open the throttle and give her a shot "yamahamahama vroooo- putputputput"

She runs!!!!!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

It was too dark to check the plugs or monkey with the lines anymore, so i buttoned it back up to continue later!


[Synopsis for those who dont want to read my essay :P
Gas from tank opaque/orange
Fuel petcock only spat fuel out on res and prime (probably too low fuel level, didnt check it after refueling)
Goofy-ass filter setup, WAY too much line imo
No fuel going through filter, petcock working fine (muppet installed the filter backwards anyway)
With a bit of gas down the carbs it runs :D]


This leads me to beli
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: YellowJacket! on March 27, 2007, 10:30:49 PM
I found out that KABANNNGGG can = dirty spark plugs.  I'll bet if you just clean them up a bit, it'll be easier to start.
My guess also is that if your carbs are dirty then your petcock is too and if your petcock is dirty then youyr carbs are as well.  Either way, your carbs are probably dirty.
Also, try draining your tank via the petcock.  IF it drains, on prime, then you are in good shape.  Could be just a crappy in-line filter.
Glad to hear that things are sounding good.  I remember well the first time mine fired up. ;D

David
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: h2olawyer on March 27, 2007, 10:33:17 PM
The vacuum diaphragm on the petcock is what controls the fuel flow in the ON position. In Prime, the fuel should flow freely.  The fuel pump is located between the carbs.

Did the backfire sound like a rifle shot?  Visions are notorious for that.

Congrats on getting it freed up & started!

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on March 27, 2007, 10:35:16 PM
Lol, it's quite a feeling. I think the most satisfactory fire-up i've had was my xt250. That thing WOULD. NOT. START. I finally got fed-up with the yamaha gods and damn near ripped my right leg off kicking it over, but on the very last kick i could muster it started right up!

My plan of action now is to replace the fuel line and install one of those little clear cone sintered broze filters inline, and to take as much slack out of the fuel line as possible. I'll also pull the plugs to check the condition and more than likely clean them up a bit and re-gap them.

Probably a secondary mission is to replace the air filter on this thing, its d-i-r-t-y dirty!

EDIT: Lol, now that you mention it, i saw a few heads go to the windows in the house next door, probably thought i was shooting at them :o (backfire looked cool as hell too, eyebrows may disagree)
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: h2olawyer on March 27, 2007, 10:40:18 PM
Quote from: inanecathode on March 27, 2007, 10:35:16 PM
EDIT: Lol, now that you mention it, i saw a few heads go to the windows in the house next door, probably thought i was shooting at them :o (backfire looked cool as hell too, eyebrows may disagree)

ROFL   :D  :D  :D

That backfire is something to be experienced - from far, far away!

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on March 29, 2007, 07:45:04 PM
This suuuuuuuucks, i'm in a handy mood and theres 4 inches of snow on the ground and freezing temperatures. I can't work on the vision until monday :/
The yamaha and weather gods must be consipring i tell ya!
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: Tiger on March 29, 2007, 07:53:22 PM
Quote from: inanecathode on March 29, 2007, 07:45:04 PM
This suuuuuuuucks, i'm in a handy mood and theres 4 inches of snow on the ground and freezing temperatures. I can't work on the vision until monday :/
The yamaha and weather gods must be consipring i tell ya!

...Makes the first ride all the more enjoyable... 8)

                   
8).......TIGER....... 8)
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: QBS on March 29, 2007, 08:39:13 PM
The purpose of the long line loop is to not kink.  My '83 has a similar set up (desighned by me).  Been working for many years.  The fuel pump makes it so.  I hide the loop behind the left fairing lower.  Backfires are commonly caused by weak batteries.  Research using a car air filter on the bike.  Several here have done it, including me.  Cost $5.00, is real easy and works as good or better than OEM (more filter area).  Vacume pot thing controls air flap door for stumble control system.
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on April 01, 2007, 12:01:10 AM
The yamaha gods are indeed against me. On top of a rightly crap day yesterday, i also developed a bit of food poisoning that i ended up going to the hospital over. Hopefully tomorrow should be a bit warmer, and i might be able to get a new fuel filter and some new line in there.

I'm probably going to have to clean out the carbs real well (and get the choke cable freed up as well, it's stuck just like the clutch). Anyone have any tips on tearing down the carbs for a good cleaning and dipping? I dont want to end up destroying any gaskets or rings with the carb soaker.
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: Night Vision on April 01, 2007, 01:01:03 AM
I'd start by getting the jets out first... if they're stuck... you might be stuck.

each carb has three jets. the one on the bottom of the carb is a bugger because it's hard to get a big enough driver in there.

get a spare driver and grind/file the sides down.
you want a good stout screwdriver because those brass jets are prone to stripping...

you want to give them your best shot.... a good quick "snap" turn
do one carb at a time...

others will add their tips
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: h2olawyer on April 01, 2007, 01:26:52 AM
After removing the jets, remove the top of the carb.  Remove the pin holding the float.  Be careful with this step - the posts holding the float pin are prone to breaking.  Find a small drift or other sturdy thing to push with that is just a little smaller than the float pin.  Press the pin out of the posts.  It's kind of tricky but doable.  I've done several.  The first time the pin is removed is the most difficult.  After that, they go in & out a little easier.  Note that the pin has a head on one end so don't push on that end of the pin.

Try to carefully remove the gasket.  There are still some floating around, but are not common.  If you do tear the gasket, you can make a new one out of gasket material from an auto parts store - just take the gasket with you to get the correct thickness.

Remove everything except the butterfly from the carb.  Remove the carb drain screw as well.  there is a rubber o-ring on the screw - remove it & set aside.  Remove the mixture screw.  There should be a spring, washer & a tiny o-ring on that screw as well.  Set that o-ring aside.  Remove all the rubber hoses as well - set them aside.

Carefully, using vise grips, remove the accelerator pump nozzle.  Stay away from the small tube & pull up while rotating it back & forth a little.  Be careful & not allow the small tube to contact the carb body.  They can break off.  Repairable but a real PITA.  There is a small brass weight & a steel ball under the nozzle.  Do not lose them.  Turn carb body upside down with your hand underneath it to catch the weight & ball.  Set them aside - with the rubber parts.  Normally no need to dip them.  Find some picture hanger cable.  Take one strand from the cable & use it to clean out the tip of the nozzle. 

Put all the metal bits in the dip for about 30 minutes.  Remove them & rinse with clean water.  Blow air through all the passages.

Reassemble.

Lucky may have some more hints - he's done more of these than anybody.  I've only done three sets so far.  Will be doing another set this week.

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on April 01, 2007, 09:59:38 AM
Does the 82 version have accelerator pumps?
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: h2olawyer on April 01, 2007, 02:23:49 PM
Yes, the 82 version does have accelerator pumps.  If you can find them buried in all that snow!

Actually it is one pump that supplies fuel to both nozzles.  The front carb is supplied via a small hose linking the carbs together.  The pump & actuator are on the rear carb.

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on April 01, 2007, 04:26:49 PM
It may be my zonked body/brain, but after putting on the new fuel filter and line, setting the petcock to prime, i can't seem to get the accelerator pumps to pump. Theres a little screw in the bottom right corner of the float bowl (viewing the bike from the left side. When i unscrew that a few turns, fuel starts dumping out of a vent pipe(?) from the bottom of the frame of the bike.

Taking in concideration my zonked brain, can anyone give me a general direction to go in with these carbs? I want to start with the easy problems first, moving to the harder ones.


PS Looks like theres no tubes or screens on the petcock going into the fuel tank. Odd.
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: h2olawyer on April 01, 2007, 06:34:54 PM
The screw you found that leaks after being turned is the carb drain.

The accelerator pump diaphragm may be hosed - or more likely, the nozzles are plugged.

The tube / screen on the petcock is what allows for a reserve function.  Run inlet is higher than reserve.  The screen is sort of a fuel filter.  It's all one piece.

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on April 01, 2007, 06:51:05 PM
How can i, or can i, get to the accelerator pump without removing the carbs?
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: Night Vision on April 01, 2007, 07:25:09 PM
I believe you can take the carb tops off without pulling the carbs. make sure you put a paper towl in the throats so nuthin falls in...

you can then pull accel nozzles out.... if you are going to do all that, why don't you

.... dig it out of the avalanche  ::) and clean/dip the carbs...
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on April 01, 2007, 09:29:45 PM
I probably will just clean/dip the carbs. They probably need to be all cleaned out anyway.
What after all that snow and all...
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: h2olawyer on April 01, 2007, 10:17:49 PM
With any luck, the snow packed so tightly in the carbs they were force cleaned.   ;D  Maybe you can have them stuffed, too!

Dipping the carbs is a good idea.  I'll be doing mine in the next couple days.  Runs pretty good, but could definitely be better.

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on April 01, 2007, 11:01:51 PM
This weird realm of "Runs good, but could be better" is totally new to me lol. Im used to small/old bikes that IF they run, it runs good. If it doesnt run good, it doesnt run period.

Im missing the petcock tubes and screens it looks like, when i pulled it out there was nothing on the other side, just two holes.
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on April 08, 2007, 10:44:33 AM
6 inches snow on the ground right now... And it's supposed to get nice on monday, but i WORK on monday!

GAH!
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on April 10, 2007, 11:32:56 PM
Oh ffs, snow storm in this week.
I swear i HAVE to make this year's ROV meet, it's practically in my backyard!
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: h2olawyer on April 11, 2007, 12:02:28 AM
I'll have a spare Vision along - just in case.   ;D

When the weather starts improving, I'll swing down your way with tools & parts to see if we can git 'er done.

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on April 11, 2007, 07:45:33 AM
Wow hey that'd be fun :D
I'll bring the carb cleaner!
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on April 16, 2007, 08:00:39 AM
I know it should be in my haynes manual, but for the life of me i can't find where the stator plug is. It has a picture, but it doesnt actually say where the thing is located.
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: Night Vision on April 16, 2007, 08:25:45 AM
the three prong stator plug goes to the regulator/rectifier that is mounted on the backside of the battery box (stock position)
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: Lucky on April 16, 2007, 08:32:13 AM
2 importaint things:
1) The sator plug will fit in the TCI. if you accidentally do this you will fry a $400 (from the stealer) part!
2) look for electrical tape & solder, someone may have already hardwired the stator (reccomended)

--Lucky
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on April 19, 2007, 10:23:25 PM
All riiiiiiight  :o :o ;D ;D got the carbs off today:

1) I am dumb. Didnt plug the intake boots, got a bunch of gas in there (it'll evaporate out, right?)
2) Haynes says "work the carbs out the frame to the left" lol, easier said than done, that's a tight fit. Square peg needle eye o_O
3) Got the carbs seperated from eachother and the fuel pump. The rear carb from the accelerator pump down is leaky yellow (you know the leaking fuel color) front carb is golden.
4) Despite the gas in the tank at the owners place before i bought the v smelling dandy, what came out of those carbs IS NOT gas anymore. Dude, i know the smell of varnish a mile away. One smell you wont forget.
5) Leaving the carbs for dissasembly tomorrow

The intake boots, at least the rear look GNARLY, like split pretty bad at the very top clamping end, i suspect this isnt critical as its just part of the mating surface, but still. Damn. I dispise that overwhelmed feeling you get right as you start unscrewing screws and pulling lines off, im assuming the V carbs only go together one way, and if you dont have any pieces left over you probably did it right (i hope :o)

Anyway, in a somewhat unrelated note, dude i need front brake pads. They're worn down, well, lets say pretty damn far (about 2 miles out of cutting the rotor with the backing plates [thats something i need alright, a wiped rotor :o])

So, mister h20, you're welcome to come up and clean my carbs whilst i enjoy the cool mountain breeze and a tall glass of sweet tea :D

Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: h2olawyer on April 19, 2007, 10:47:16 PM
I'll be happy to come up and supervise you cleaning your own carbs.  Don't think you can afford my rates for that type of work.  And you thought attorney fees were steep! ;)

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: kwells on April 19, 2007, 11:36:16 PM
yah...I could ride out just to double the rate!
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: Tiger on April 20, 2007, 05:46:36 AM
yah...I could ride out just to double the rate...

:o...and add to that Tiger's air fare, board and lodging's, a couple of bottle's of single malt scotch and my hourly rate...Your "V" will be guaranteed to run sweet with all the experience you will have hired, eh boy's ;D ;D :D :D :D :D :D... ;)

                         
8).......TIGER....... 8)
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: supervision on April 20, 2007, 07:47:22 AM
 Watch out if H2 helps you, you might have to do thirty days in the hole!
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on April 20, 2007, 11:30:12 AM
Quote from: h2olawyer on April 19, 2007, 10:47:16 PM
I'll be happy to come up and supervise you cleaning your own carbs.  Don't think you can afford my rates for that type of work.  And you thought attorney fees were steep! ;)

H2O

Rofl
Too late though, already have the front carb dissasembled and VERY clean. Waiting on the sun to dry out the carb halves, and my hands to warm up from the carb cleaner (crc freeze! aaaah!)

The haynes helps alot with this, and keeping a clean and orderly work area helps immensely, almost makes me want to do the carb on my lt2-100.... Naaaah
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on April 20, 2007, 12:02:02 PM
Okey dokey, front carb is back together, no left over parts or stuck pieces. Onto the rear carb!
I'm pretty sure the accel pump diaphragm is leaking, where do i get a rebuild kit for it? I'm conflicted on wether to take the fuel pump apart or not... If i do, do i have to replace all the gaskets and pieces?
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on April 20, 2007, 12:05:09 PM
When I did my fuel pump, the rubber diaphragms looked pretty bad, and the gaskets.  However, the thin film plastic valves looked good.  I did replace them, but thinking back on it now I probably wouldn't if I had a chance to do it again.  Keyster offers rebuild kits for the fuel pump, as well as the accel pump.  If you do the accel pump, make sure you keeep track of what goes where, it's fairly complex for how small it is.

Lucky has warned people to get in touch with him before rebuilding.

Brian
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on April 20, 2007, 12:44:38 PM
I'll go ahead and contact keyster about the fuel pump/accel pump rebuild kits. I'll put em in when i get em, but i'll assemble the whole thing temporarily.
As far as the accel pump goes, doesnt look to complicated. Diaphragm, intake check valve, weights and check balls. None of the nozzles seem clogged, clear crc came out instead of the nasty orange stuff i've been seeing all day :o
The accel pump diaphragm, at least the lower flap is pretty crispy, cracked and such, not really flexible. The top flap is worn, but not as bad as the lower.

I'll just put it back together as is and put the new parts in when i get em.
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: kwells on April 20, 2007, 12:58:53 PM
so that means you'll be riding this weekend...how are your tires?
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: h2olawyer on April 20, 2007, 02:16:33 PM
Lucky's warning to contact him prior to rebuilding is mainly for 83 carbs - due to their scarcity & the lack of replaceent parts should you goof something up.  However, if you have ANY questions on your 82 carbs, it's still a good idea to ask about it.  Many of us have some extra 82 carbs so finding replacement parts isn't nearly as big an issue.  However, its still wise to ask before damaging something because there will be a day when 82 parts are as scarce as the 83 parts are now.

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on April 20, 2007, 02:30:17 PM
Carbs are together and ready to be installed! Accel pump definitely needs a new die-a-fragum, operating the accel pump with fuel in the rear bowl it won't pump. Once i open the throttle and operate the pump by hand it does start to work off the throttle actuation.
Naw kwells, i probably wont be riding this weekend, i have work and what not. I still have to install the carbs, make the bike run, check the charge voltage, change the final drive oil, replace the right hand mirror (mirror is broken off the mount :(), check the front brake fluid, replace the front pads, and last but not least replace the brake tensioner bolts. Oh, and get it registered and insured. And get a street helmet...

Tires are good though :D


PS Ceramic pads, uni air filter, and fram oil filter are on their way!
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on April 20, 2007, 06:59:22 PM
I think i found the fuel pump repair kit on keyster... im not sure if it's it though. And it looks like the accel pump diaphragm only comes in the carb rebuild kit, 27 dollars for a bunch of parts i dont need, and one i do. Anyone on here have any spare good accelerator pump diaphragms?
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: h2olawyer on April 20, 2007, 07:36:56 PM
I just might have a good accel pump diaphragm.  Need to go out to the garage and tear into one of the spares.  Won't guarantee anything, though.  Mine may all be as decrepit as the one you have.

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: Lucky on April 20, 2007, 11:41:25 PM
I have a new diaphram you can have, send me your address.  also, make sure the well (small hole) on the other side of the pump (in the bowl) is CLEAN also, stick the tip of a dental pick in hole in the diaphram side of the pump & make sure the ball check isn't stuck.

you should be able to hear the ball check & weights move under the nozzles when you shake the carb, also the nozzles should be clear, if not, remove them & clean them out with a single strand of picture hanging wire, or the wire from one of those sewing needle threaders.

--Lucky
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on April 21, 2007, 12:39:24 AM
Aye, i poked the diaphragm side check ball with a needle, seemed free enough to me, but blasted it with CRC anyway, still had a bit of orange come out. Pulled both the accelerator shnozzles and cleaned out the passage beneath the best i could, when i shake the carbs i hear em rattling now :D didnt so much before.

Also, lucky, you're the man! Sending you a pm now.
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on April 25, 2007, 10:25:41 PM
Bling!

First. Lucky rocks. This dye-a-fragum is fan-diddly-tastic (aside from a moment of panic when i thought my diaphragm was triangular). You visionaries are true pals really. Without the parts you've all sent i'd be up a creek i tell ya (seriously, how would i have found out the starter nose seal is bad if i wasnt for browsing these forums, or repair it with the one that was sent to me!). This weekend looks cherry to put her back together. Just put the accel pump diaphragm in there, (somehow) install the carbs, and start thrashing. I've got two fully cooked, er i mean, charged batteries and an itch to hear this bike rumble. I've also gotten my airfilter (SPONGE!? They havent put sponge filters on bikes for... eons? (it IS a uni filter though...)) Oil filter, and brake pads (slowing down is for sissies anyway... merely asthetic)

In other news, looks like my dad is getting a 1976 goldwing with a burnt up clutch for 500 bucks. Anyone ever put a clutch into a goldwing? Figure just remove the radiator and push the engine forward off the tranny... Not sure how they set up the clutches in longitudinal mounted engines like this, or of this size, whether its a clutch pack or a single disk or what....
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on April 28, 2007, 09:58:49 PM
Turns out you just take off the rear tire and the mufflers. It looks cherry, 20k real miles, pegs hardly warn, been garaged its entire life :D


furthermore.


ITS ALIIIIIIVE! Threw the carbs on, filled up the bowls, got the accelerator pumps going, with a few pops and gurgles it fired right up. Idled perfectly, reved up beautifully. Sounds freakin awesome guys, never heard a bike like this run before.  ;D ;D ;D ;D
My to do list now:

That being said, i have a few questions:


I'm TOTALLY jazzed now. I'm gonna make the ROV meet :D!
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: h2olawyer on April 28, 2007, 10:33:13 PM
Great news on both bike fronts!

I use Bel-Ray 80w-90 Hypoid Gear Oil (aka Gear Saver).  Yamaha recommends 80w Hypoid.  All the fluids & lubes, except for coolant, in my Silver bike are Bel-Ray.  Just had good luck with that brand in my dirt bike so I continue to use it.  I used Yamalube oil for years but now use Bel-Ray 0w-40 EXS full synthetic in the engine.

I have Bel-Ray dot4 brake fluid.  No particular reason other than when I installed the dual discs & braided stainless lines, I knew I was starting with an entirely clean system.  Dot4 will withstand a little higher temperature & absorb a little less water over time than dot3, but the differences are negligible.  Dot3 works just fine.  Make sure it is new, though.

To install a voltmeter, tap into a wire that's hot when the key is on.  Use that for the positive side of the gauge.  For the negative, find a spot to ground it or even go direct to battery negative.  I have mine hooked into an auxilliary fuse block located up in the fairing, mounted to the fairing bracket.  Also have a ground strip located there.  Ran a wire direct from the battery to the fuse block and installed a 40A relay, using the license plate light wires as the relay trigger.  That way, the auxilliary block turns on & off with the key.  The ground strip is wired directly to the battery.  The power center gives me 5 or 6 extra circuits.  I've currently got the auxilliary lights, voltmeter and power port for the helmet camera wired through it.  Will be adding heated grips later and may make an additional hookup for heated clothing as well.

The voltmeter will be most accurate if you can hook it up avoiding the bike's original wiring harness.  You can use larger wire and it doesn;t compete for power.  When I had it hooked up in a circuit inside the headlight bucket, it read about 2 volts low.  Now, through the power center, it reads very close to what my digital voltmeter displays right at the battery posts.  Some volt gauges are adjustable to compensate for the variations as well.

Hope the hints help.  As for fluids, use whatever you like.  There are as many opinions on oils as there are riders.  Just make sure you don't use one with a friction modifier or your clutch will slip.  Some full synthetics can cause clutch slippage as well.  A friend with a Venture used Royal Purple synth oil and experienced clutch slippage.  Went to Bel-Ray and it went away.  I don't like using the cheapest available (unless it is a well known brand on sale) but that's just for my own peace of mind.  It normally doesn't cost a lot more to use good quality lubricants - especially on the maintenance schedule I'm on with riding under 3,000 miles per year these days.  That puts the engine oil at two changes per year - but I normally go to a semi synth or dino oil for the winter storage period, so I have been changing mine in March, July and November.  I may get a ride in here & there from November to March, but won't normally get more than 100 miles on the "storage" oil.

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on April 29, 2007, 09:49:04 AM
Are you f'ing serious? (to the bike) the freakin brake pads are too thick. I've sucked the piston back into the caliper, and the fixed (not the one on the piston side) is too thick to allow the rotor to clear both the pad and the caliper itself. It's getting stuck on this little tab of metal that sticks out a bit from the caliper where the rotor is supposed to spin by.
Any reason why i shouldnt start sanding down the fixed pad?

Edit: I am dumb. Apparently in my quest for the holy grail of finding a part bad straight out of the factory, i forgot that the caliper is mounted on sliders. Solution? Slide the caliper over.
Vision: 226 Me: 0
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on April 29, 2007, 10:33:52 AM
WOO! First ride! Took a spin around the subdivision today, one thing to note: OMG IT'S NOT A DUAL SPORT! Dirt roads. Mud. Yeah, didnt lay it over but, yikes.
Raises more questions than answers really:
Tach doesnt work?
Horn doesnt work?
Neutral light doesnt work?
High beam light... does work?
Turn signals don't work?
Brake lights don't work?
This is really weird, because i could have sworn that all of the above (save for maybe the tach) did work when i first got it... Definitely the horn worked, i know that. Anyone have any clues? Or tips for testing? (Maybe h2o or kwells feels like a ride up here soon to help... ;D)

First off, the most annoying thing. Something is cocked up with my throttle cable. It idles at the regular speed only if i reach in and hold the throttle lever onto it's stop. If i pop the throttle up a bit and return it, it won't go back to idle and stays at pretty high rpm what's worse is it steadily creeps upward in rpm until i push the throttle lever down against it's stop. As you can tell, the throttle cable/grip isnt letting the throttle return. It looks kinda bent up down near the throttle lever where it attaches, and the grip is sticking in some places, and down right rotating around the handlebar at some points.
Second off, somethings still screwy with the carbs (or ignition really now that i think about it, carbs don't act this regular). When i goose the throttle pretty hard it stumbles a bit, sometimes doesnt even accelerate, misfires like crazy, but if i get on it gently and keep the throttle under 25% application it accelerates nicely. Once it gets to a certain rpm (not sure which, tach not working grrr) it just wont rev any higher (pretty sure it's not the red line) it gets real... blatty? i guess? Sounds like its only running off one cylinder maybe. Sounds like a lawnmower does when you try to peg it with the choke engaged if that helps.

I havent looked at the plugs yet, or the electrical, both because i wanted it to run first, period, and i'm total crap with electrical systems.

Questions comments concerns?

P.S. Really, if one of you rov'ers isnt doing anything tonight (sunday) i wouldnt mind if i was paid a visit ;D Perhaps lend your brilliant vision vision to help a young vision welp in need :D


Edit: Found a vacuum leak, one so far now. The stupid petcock control vacuum line (yamaha: "I know! Lets put non-fuel grade hose, next to a source of fuel! Brilliant!") After spraying some carb cleaner around the fitting the bike stumbles a bit, and i can here the leak g oing "pft pft pft pft pft" when it gets wet.

Edit2: Charging voltage is fan diddly tastic, steady 14.22 volts :D
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: YellowJacket! on April 29, 2007, 10:50:10 AM
Regarding the throttle Check you YICS for leaks and also check for vacuum leaks.  Also, as I found out, the throttle cable is VERY finicky about how it is routed.  Anything but thr right way will result in some sort of binding.
If everything up front is not lighting up, check your connections in the headlight bucket...then double check them.  Also, check your fuse block under the seat.  Mine was corroded and one of the clips was holding the fuse in place but was not making good contact.

Welcome to the world of RIDERS of Vision.....Its fun to be a rider now, huh.  ;D

David
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: YellowJacket! on April 29, 2007, 10:53:30 AM
Quote from: inanecathode on April 29, 2007, 10:33:52 AM
Edit: Found a vacuum leak, one so far now. The stupid petcock control vacuum line (yamaha: "I know! Lets put non-fuel grade hose, next to a source of fuel! Brilliant!") After spraying some carb cleaner around the fitting the bike stumbles a bit, and i can here the leak g oing "pft pft pft pft pft" when it gets wet.

Edit2: Charging voltage is fan diddly tastic, steady 14.22 volts :D

Great minds think alike!  Looks like you found one of my suggestions while I was typing it.  ;D

David
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: Night Vision on April 29, 2007, 10:55:06 AM
carbs: since you took them apart and cleaned them, did you sync then after you put them back on?
throttle: lube cable, clean lube/throttle slide on hand grip, check routing.
electrics: check fuses, pull relays and clean all connectors.

a neglected Vision will still be a negelected Vision unless you go through all systems hoses etc and clean / check for functionality...

for example: say someone puts in a new starter nose seal... maybe they sand and shine the cable end going to the starter, how about the other end going to the starter solenoid? 
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on April 29, 2007, 11:02:07 AM
carbs: since you took them apart and cleaned them, did you sync then after you put them back on? No
throttle: lube cable, clean lube/throttle slide on hand grip, check routing. Thouroughly soaked the cable with silicone, have to still do the slider
electrics: check fuses, pull relays and clean all connectors. Will do :D

a neglected Vision will still be a negelected Vision unless you go through all systems hoses etc and clean / check for functionality...

for example: say someone puts in a new starter nose seal... maybe they sand and shine the cable end going to the starter, how about the other end going to the starter solenoid? :-X mmmmmm no, i sure didnt


As far as being an actual 'rider' of vision, i can say that i can feel theres a tonne of oomph there for the grabbing, just has to be tuned right. Probably due to watching the throttle instead of everything else, i almost couldnt make a hill due to not shifting down  :x. The vision sure handles differently than my dualsport, thats for sure. Oh, and it doesnt have knobbies. Kinda forgot that at one point. Got 1/4 into a turn and remembered "oh bugger, street tires". Also, the starting for this bike is weird, couldnt get it to start for the longest time until i just let go of the throttle and let the choke out. For some reason it didnt respond to pumping the throttle (probably flooded)

Ouch *bandaids finger* i think i'll take out the plugs when its cooled off a bit... Next projects:
Check and clean all fuses/relays
Replace crispy petcock vacuum hose
Sync carbs (A) Don't know how B) scary process, only experience with syncing was a goldwing with bad sync :o)
Put a nut on the engine mount bolt ( :o :o :o)


Edit: Whoa, wait. Theres no yikes on my bike!? I thought when you guys meant yikes chamber you meant the little box that the coolant lines go into. Looking at the picture in the haynes manual, where there should be the yikes, i have nothing, just open space. Theres a couple plugged vacuum nipples on the intake boots or near there that i think are supposed to go to the yikes... Can the vision even run right without this?
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on April 29, 2007, 01:00:57 PM
The YICS tubes go into the heads, not the carb intake boots (I assume it's the same for an 82).  Many people run with them capped off and no YICS.  There is controversy (  ;D ) on whether the YICS does anything.

That being said, I still have mine

Brian
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: YellowJacket! on April 29, 2007, 01:23:50 PM
Quote from: inanecathode on April 29, 2007, 11:02:07 AM
Edit: Whoa, wait. Theres no yikes on my bike!? I thought when you guys meant yikes chamber you meant the little box that the coolant lines go into. Looking at the picture in the haynes manual, where there should be the yikes, i have nothing, just open space. Theres a couple plugged vacuum nipples on the intake boots or near there that i think are supposed to go to the yikes... Can the vision even run right without this?

Yikes!  no YICS!  I have ridden mine with, without and with a leaky one.  With a sealed YICS I can feel a big difference in how the bike runs...much better.  With a leaky one, it "hunts" for a stable idle, boggs down and runs like crap.  With no YICS, it feels mushy and does not accelerate well.

The YICS ports are on the lower part of each cylinder housing.  It looks like a nipple adapter sticking out of the cylinder.  It could be either capped or have the hose attached with a plug in it.  Check to see if someone ran a hose between both ports.  It will cause problems if its done that way. If you are not running a YICS, each port should be individually plugged.

David
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on April 29, 2007, 01:55:16 PM
Yeah, they're both individually capped. I'm kinda neutral on the yikes thing, if it accelerates ok, and can keep up with traffic i don't mind much.
I've searched and searched for the cheapo syncing device linked on the forums (i know its here somewhere)
I've also had a brain wave. The throttle cable and slide work fine, but its adjusted all the way in. Is there an adjustment at the carb end of the throttle that'll allow me to move the cable towards the throtlle lever a bit? Seems real odd to me that the throttle cable is adjusted too tight, and the adjustment is turned all the way in. Off the top of my head, maybe i have a cable stay reversed, or crud in it or something.

Theres a yellow/black wire clipped at the TCI box, that's the rev limiter right?
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on April 29, 2007, 02:52:06 PM
Quote from: inanecathode on April 29, 2007, 01:55:16 PM
Theres a yellow/black wire clipped at the TCI box, that's the rev limiter right?

Yup, the yellow with black wire is rev-limiter.

Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: h2olawyer on April 29, 2007, 02:53:53 PM
The el-cheapo manometer is here:  www.xz550.com/art_files/4dollarmano.jpeg (http://www.xz550.com/art_files/4dollarmano.jpeg)

There is an idle adjustment at the carbs.  Located aft of the throttle cable attachment.  If you need to have it screwed in very far to make it idle, there's still some issues with your carbs.  When it is screwed in too far, the bike takes forever to return to idle.  Your carb problems could be crud, mixture, synch or (more likely) a combination of them.  I had to dip my carbs twice the first time I tried to rebuild them.  The first time through, I got most of the gunk out, but didn't have this forum to get all the good info about making sure they are surgical theater clean, and how to get them that way.  Also didn't have a fuel filter inline at the time.

If my headache goes away in the next couple hours, I may be able to get up to see how you're coming along - but I wouldn't count on it today.

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on April 29, 2007, 04:21:50 PM
Well, invitations open :D
I suspect its the cable holding the idle high, i can literally see it not resting on the stop, and when i reach in and press it back it returns to a nice idle speed. I'll see if i can't bend/reverse the throttle cable stay and see if i can irk some slack out of it at the carb end, and fix the vacuum leak and see if that helps things :D
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: YellowJacket! on April 29, 2007, 05:37:59 PM
I wonder if the person before you fitted the wrong size cable.

David
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on April 29, 2007, 07:24:58 PM
Oh ffs, now it's only running the front cylinder. Any ideas? Suppose just check spark and go from there. Seeing even more leaks out of the boots now  :-\
Got the hose and nut on now though.

Rear cylinder no spark. Plug cap good, plug (probably original) is servicable.
Where do i go from here? Totally lost at this point.
Furthermore, how do i fix the boots?
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: Lucky on April 29, 2007, 08:49:12 PM
to patch the carb boots, clean them with brake cleaner (leaves no residue) and coat them in "liquid electrical tape" (ava in several colors i believe)

before you go chasing all over electrical land, it's 90% chance it's carbs.  do the easy stuff first: synq & set the pilot screws, if there is ANY improvement, pull the carbs, dip & rebuild them. if they are 83's take out a loan & send them to me for rebuilding. 8)

double check your YICS for leaks too, but i'll bet it's carbs. oh you haven't got one...

--Lucky
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on April 29, 2007, 10:05:24 PM
Theres no spark to the rear cylinder, dont think that's carbs  :P
I have. NO idea what i'm doing with electrical. I know i should check the coils, but i have no idea where they are, how to get to them, how to check them, and what i should be looking for...
So far my only thought has been: It was running fine (electrically speaking) until i parked it, came back to it, and suddenly theres no spark in the rear cylinder. Something came loose (i find it a rather small chance that something spontaneously broke in that short amount of time) or got fried some how.

Feelin pretty bummed, and totally lost. Carbs are one thing, but i've never had a no-spark occurance in any of my vehicles, two wheels or otherwise.
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: YellowJacket! on April 29, 2007, 10:13:51 PM
Did anything get wet?  Did you hose it down?  Water in the TCI can do things like that.
Did you say earlier that the rev limiter wire  was cut?

I had a problem like this early on.  It turned out that my spark plug wire was not inserted tightly enough into the coil.  To find the coil, follow the spark plug wire up until it ends into a black plastic thingy.  Thats the coil.  The wire is held in place by a twist on collar..pressure olds the wire in place.  Loosen the collar and make sure the wire is pused in, then retighten the collar.
You'll have to remove the tank to get at the coils.

David
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on April 29, 2007, 10:15:25 PM
Are they secured by these little acorn nuts through the frame?
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on April 29, 2007, 10:21:55 PM
yup. 

Brian
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on April 29, 2007, 10:34:07 PM
Can they be tested outside the bike, or do i need a ground?
How does one go about testing them anyhow?

Recap so far:
Tach not working
Rear cylinder not getting spark (plug good, plug cap good)
Horn, signals, neutral lights not working

Plan on running a bunch of tests tomorrow.

PS How do i remove wires from the TCI plug?
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: Brian Moffet on April 30, 2007, 10:12:07 AM
You can put a multimeter (ohm setting) between the orange wire and the spark plug connection and measure the resistance there (I think 7900 ohms).  Then measure the resistance between the main electrical contacts, they should be 2.75 ohms.  You can find this information in the service manual on page 169 (on the CD from lucky).

As far as removing wires from the TCI connector, I wasn't able to out in the boondocks when I cut mine,

Brian
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on April 30, 2007, 10:15:17 PM
*sighs*
I really don't know what i'm looking at. I'm getting all sorts of different resistances. I don't even know how to read my dvom with the ohm setting  :-\
I'm really confused now, all i'm certain of is the rear cylinder isnt getting spark.
The book says to check the resistance between the red/white stripe wire and the orange on the coil to test the primary coil. I did this for both sides and got 2.8-2.7 ohms a piece. Seems ok to me. I go to test the secondary coil resistance (book says to go between the orange wire and the spark plug wire) i get nothing from both coils there.
I'm not one to throw parts at stuff, but hell what can i do?
Only other thing of note is that there's a spot of rust inside where the spark plug wire lives inside the rear coil.
Pretty frustrated at this point. I'm thinking i need help :/

EDIT: Twitch. Twitch.
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: YellowJacket! on April 30, 2007, 10:53:06 PM
If you are up for it, I have a spare coil that I know is working.  I can send it to you to try out...to rule out a bad coil.  SHipping shouldn't be more than $5.00 each way.  If it works, we can negotiate a price. ;D

David
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on May 01, 2007, 09:03:33 PM
Oh where or where to begin!
First off, a HUUUUUUUGE thank-you-very-much to h2o for coming up and helping me with my vision today! Seriously i couldnt ask for a more like minded individual. Not only that, but tolerating the condtions up here today, rain showers all day with no shelter (psst, bob, suns out now that you left :O) and an umbrella at one point.
We determined that the rear cylinder isnt getting a spark for some reason. Took the plug out and rested it on the block, yup, no spark. Swapped the coils over, no spark. Swapped tci's out, no spark. Swapped wires out, no spark. Finally (probably in frustration with the yamaha gods) someone (dont remember if it was h2o or I) put the dvom on the spark plug and got conductivity between the plug wire hookup (little nubbin on the top). We decided that aint good at all. Plugs should have infinite resistance, at least on the digital read.
The weird thing was, the plug looked fine, really. Neither he nor i have ever seen a bad sparkplug. Sure, dirty ones, broken ones, cruddy ones, burnt ones, but not one that looks perfectly servicable but won't spark. After throwing in a good looking plug and setting it on the head it sparked, and boy did it. Bright blue-yellow very loud spark.

Pause for a minute. Occam wins here i think, bad sparkplug is pretty basic imo, but seriously the plug looked fine, really. Really it did..
Unpause

Having gotten the second wind of a solved problem, we took a road trip (just down the road) to my grumpy ex-boss at the local garage to find a plug that'll replace the one i have. No joy on that venture (im sure she had one, she's just lazy...), so i emory clothed the heck out of the thing, and upon placing on the block it sparked well now (good enough i'm sure).

Hooking everything back up again, both plugs go back into the cylinders and all the plugs go in their respective recepticals. Just a touch of choke and a few pumps from the throttle aaaand!
Yamanayamanayamana for a good 30 seconds. We could only irk out a cough and a SPECTACULAR backfire a few times. What the hell? We didnt touch the carbs, at all. Didnt even look at em. Tried every combination of gas/choke/trottle and couldnt get anything. Accelerators spraying, plugs firing, nothing. Even dripping some gas down the carb throats gave nothing. Perhap's its just incredibly flooded for some reason. What's even weirder, is all the indicators started working up front, neutral, oil, tachometer, but upon application of the turn signal they all died again. Perhaps it's because /everything/ is soaking wet at this point?

What the hell's going on with my vision? It's got this weird disease of having totally unrelated systems fail. We joked the rear tire would go flat if we touched the carbs, and if we touched the fuses the caliper would start leaking. Sounds funny, but really? What the heck?


Highlight reel!
-Almost electrocuting both h2o and myself several times with the wasted spark
-h2o:key off?   inane:yup   h2o turns key off X 100
-Height of both pairs of eyebrows after good plug sparks
-Height of one eyebrow of each pair after bike refuses to start
-Height of feet on inane's part off the ground after the first 'vision-splosion'
-Bad spark plug! No! No! Bad sparkplug!

Things i've learned!
-Spark plugs do just 'stop working for no reason'
-I need a garage/shed/tent/bunker to work in
-Visions have invisible links to everything else in the bike. Touch one thing, another part malfunctions
-I need a garage/shed/tent/bunker to work in
-Turn petcock OFF of prime when you take the fuel line off  :-X
-Front plug is NEIGH IMPOSSIBLE to remove
-Might want to check my brake caliper bolts... just a hunch...  ;)
Did i mention i need a garage/shed/tent/bunker to work in yet?


Line of attack from this point forward:
-Let it dry out. Water's bad, mmkay?
-Make ABSOLUTELY SURE both plugs are ACTUALLY SPARKING
-Replace fuse box (rushed fingers broke a fuse mount :()
-New spark plugs. New wires. New spark plug caps. (suggestion to all vision riders [cept h2o and his immaculate visions grumble grumble])
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: YellowJacket! on May 01, 2007, 09:15:14 PM
I think tiffinator had a similar problem and it turned out to be a bad turn signal relay.  It was putting a big drain on her system and I think she even burned out her diode a couple times from it. hey, where's she been anyway?

David
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: Lucky on May 01, 2007, 11:46:49 PM
the MSF instructer from Nashville? she sold her V last fall...  thought you knew.
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: kwells on May 02, 2007, 12:23:08 AM
awesome narrative....should have called me..I could have left early from work and nearly gotten shocked as well....think we need to change this title to "Not so New to The Vision but still Working it Out"
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: YellowJacket! on May 02, 2007, 05:37:02 AM
Quote from: Lucky on May 01, 2007, 11:46:49 PM
the MSF instructer from Nashville? she sold her V last fall...  thought you knew.

Tiffinator from Louisiana

David
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: Tiger on May 02, 2007, 06:32:11 AM
:)...Before you do anything else...BUY NEW, spark plug's, spark plug lead's and spark plug cap's.

These are the first things I rip out and throw into the garbage, EVERYTIME. You can very rarely tell, just by looking, if these part's are good or not. It's one of those area's that get overlooked time and time again... :o The price of these part's are nil compared to the frustration you experienced trying to start your "V".
After trying to start your "V" several times you may need to re-charge your battery... ;) you could also try "bump starting" her...

                   
8)........TIGER....... 8)
Title: Re: New To The Vision
Post by: inanecathode on May 02, 2007, 07:36:53 AM
It's uphill to everywhere around here lol
Figure i'll just scummy around napa and what not looking for plugs wires and caps. About the caps, i know people stock bulk wire, and plugs, but those caps, are they vision specific or are they used on other vehicles?
Kwells, once me n' h2o figure out a good time next week i'll let you know what day so perhaps you could come over as well (only if you want to of course). We'd have a regular mini-OnROV COROV meet!

H2o got me thinking about repainting my vision. Black is Sooooo played, i'm thinking of trying to match http://www.tocmp.com/brochures/Chev/1965/Caprice/images/1965Ccapricebrochurepage1_JPG.jpg Pow, that color. (H2o if you wondered what that rusty bohemouth in the driveway looked like new, there ya go :D [that's the exact model minus the vinyl top])
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Lucky on May 02, 2007, 08:00:02 AM
the wires are not the same as automotive wires (resisitor core) you need bike wires (solid core)  most bike shops will carry it in a bulk roll, but call around first.
the caps are common, inexpensive NGK items.

--Lucky
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on May 02, 2007, 08:03:05 AM
If NGK B8EA is what this bike uses (pulled it out with h2o) then they're gonna be kinda hard to find :o
I might try running by some yamaha/other stealerships to see if they've got the wire.

Edit: D8EA, not B8EA
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: YellowJacket! on May 02, 2007, 10:22:11 AM
I just pulled some out of my bike that are less than a year old (sept last year).  I changed over to the irridiums.
If you want my regular ones, you can have them.  I can get them mailed out this afternoon.  PM me the details if you do.

David
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: h2olawyer on May 02, 2007, 12:31:44 PM
Plugs are also available from auto parts stores - at least they used to be.  Got my last couple sets at Checker but it's been a couple years.

The plug caps need to have 5K ohm resistors in them.  Available from Dennis Kirk if you can't find them locally.

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on May 02, 2007, 05:33:29 PM
Got the plugs, keeping the old caps (can't find em anywhere in that style), and got some resistorless wire (59 cents a foot!)

Got the plugs in, got the wires in, went to start it and!
... silence, not even a click.



Turned the key on, THEN tried starting it: "yaaaaamaaaaanaaa-click-POOF putputputputputput"
It's ALIVE! ... Again!
The accelerator shnozzles barely sputtered gas, so i didnt push my luck (or the weather) by putting the tank on, bowls are probably empty by that point. Both old plugs show conductance where there should be none. Once again, that's the weirdest thing i've seen in a while!
So it IS running now, again, quite well i may add.
I bet the carbs need to be sinked (synced? sinqued? cant spell today), and the air adjustments need to be.. adjusted i guess, and more vacuum leak tests.

So that's good :)
Hey h2o do you have a manometer or liquid electrical tape  :D?
Or a spare yikes box kicking around ;)?
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: h2olawyer on May 02, 2007, 06:23:04 PM
I happen to have 2 homemade manometers (thanks Professor Rex for the spare).  It's yours when I can get back down there - unless I end up riding the V.  Won't fit too well.  You can build one for about $10 or less.  The only spare YICS I have is on the parts bike.  It leaks but I'll get it fixed and can get it to you next week.  I don't have a spare chrome YICS cover, though.  May see if I can get it  sealed up without needing the cover.  At least you will have the box and can maybe locate the cover.  You can also contact samsr - he may have a YICS he's trying to get rid of since he's parting out that 82.

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on May 02, 2007, 06:37:50 PM
Okey dokey! I'm off to get the idle mixtures right then :D
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: ProfessorRex on May 03, 2007, 03:34:38 AM
Quote from: h2olawyer on May 02, 2007, 06:23:04 PM
I happen to have 2 homemade manometers (thanks Professor Rex for the spare)...... You can build one for about $10 or less.

That's where that thing went!  Seriously I think I spent $3 on it, works like a charm.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on May 03, 2007, 09:21:22 AM
Ok then, lets take a hard left turn here. Mechanical end of things are starting to shape up pretty nice. Now, as h2o can tell you, my vision is a bit... ugly. I would like to repaint it and or fix the rusty spots i have on the frame and the drive shaft tunnel. Should i just go nucking futz with a sander on the tank and plastics then take them to a body shop? Or dare i try to get some decent results with rattle cans?
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: YellowJacket! on May 03, 2007, 10:50:29 AM
I stripped mine bare and went nucking futz with a sander (lots of pics btw) and rattle canned the frame.  Turned out very good. Used Satin Black.

Tank and plastics were sanded and primed then painted with an air sprayer...not the greatest job for a first timer, but good for now.  My neighbor works in a paint shop and is going to do my tank and plastics over for me.



David
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Brian Moffet on May 03, 2007, 10:57:14 AM
I painted my frame with a rattle-can of appliance paint, gloss black.

Looks pretty good, though if I bang the tank edge against it when I'm putting the tank back on, it will scrape the paint off.  I may have to put some padding there (being the frame right below where the tank "ears" are (what are those things called?))

Brian
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: h2olawyer on May 03, 2007, 11:58:33 AM
I used Krylon satin black Fusion paint to touch up a few rust spots on my frame.  Hard to tell the difference between those spots & the OEM coating.

You can get good results using rattle cans, but a more durable finish will come from a spray gun.  Pumpkin will be painted sometime this month - likely a "driveway" job with a spray gun.  The Silver V will get done professionally - at least the 83 tank & I'll have the fairing done at the same time.  The rest of the plastics on it are in pretty good shape.

Do what you feel confident with.  A mistake can always be sanded down & repainted if you don't like the results.

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on May 03, 2007, 09:54:31 PM
That's true about the sanding part. I dont honestly think i want to, or can be bothered to, strip the bike totally down to the frame. If/when i repaint it i'll just do the tank/plastics and maaaaybe the fenders. For the rust (surface) on the frame and tunnel, most likely i'll just tape it off and brush on some black rust protector. Still looking for that unique color, i like to stand out! When we get a group shot of the visions this year i want mine to be the only bike of it's color :D!

Another hard left here, my brother just bought a 1979 CB650 for 500 bucks, and MAN OH MAN! Is it beautiful. Not a single scratch, rust mark, faded anything, even the seat is perfect. I mean, even the guages are still red, grips are still squishy, all the pin striping is there, and the engine makes intel jealous with cleanliness!
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on May 09, 2007, 10:36:43 AM
Alrighty then! Got my liquid electrical tape, and all my riding stuff should be here today. Might be the first (legal) test drive today!
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on May 09, 2007, 01:23:22 PM
Eek! Oil leak! At first i thought it was the crank split (omg no) but, after a bit of engine-gunk (r) cleaning, it appears that it's just the oil drain plug. Any ideas on how to seal it?
Got the intake boots sealed up hopefully fully, and the final drive oil changed!
Anyone have suggestions on what kind of oil to oil my air filter with?
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: kwells on May 09, 2007, 02:01:14 PM
As I understand...don't use a detergent oil, it can break down the foam over time.  Your oil plug leak could be because you don't have a plug washer.  Those can be found at just about any parts store. 
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: h2olawyer on May 09, 2007, 02:04:12 PM
I agree with kwells - you need a new gasket for the oil drain plug - or maybe try tightening it just a little more, but be careful - you don't want to strip the threads.

I use Yamaha foam filter oil on my Uni Filter.  You can run it dry for a while as long as it's not too dusty.  There are several brands of filter oil.  It is generally thick & sticky stuff.  I found the K&N oil I use on my truck's filter is too thin.  It oozed down into the airbox & made a real mess in there.

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on May 09, 2007, 02:34:25 PM
Right on then, i'll be in town today anyway, probably just swing by the yamaha stealer and get some filter oil.
Looks like i'll be needing a throttle cable, i've freed up the routing on the one i have, oiled the heck out of it and the slider and it still wont return to the idle stand off unless i hold it down with my finger :/
Also i'm on the lookout for a petcock rebuild kit, or a petcock that will match the V tank (honestly, i think i can handle turning the fuel off when i park it o_O)
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on May 10, 2007, 07:56:09 PM
Alrighty then!
H2o came over today, and after a bit of adjusting, syncing we went for a ride! First ride for me on this bike, and first ride of the bike for probably around 2 years.
It just WOULD NOT idle right, acted real odd, choke modulating rpm... Turns out i forgot to plug in the vacuum line to the petcock. Not only was it starving of fuel, it had a mass vacuum leak. Pretty uneventful ride to Black Hawk and back. I'll tell ya though, that front brake is spooky. Its either crammed with air or super low on fluid, its either right up against the grip or half an inch in, never know where it'll be. I managed to strip one of the screws holding the master cylinder cover on, so that'll get done when i can find a screw to replace it. Something is up with the rear brake as well, the pedal is hanging down, and upon adjustment it pops back to where it was.
Overall it was a good ride, good yunch (burgahs), and it barely even rained! The throttle cable seems to be doing much better, and upon opening it we found that it works MUCH better, it actually snaps back to the idle stop, cool eh?

Edit!
Alright well, found out what was wrong with the front brake. It was both super low on fluid, packed with air, and the brake fluid in there resembled milk. All of that's flushed out, and now the front brake is hard. (might need a rebuild kit for it though, if you jam it, or just use it regularly its hard, but if you sneak the handle in real slowly it'll go all the way to the grip)
Found out what is (sadly) wrong with the back brake. The part that sticks out with the splines that hooks up with the lever is totally wiped out, maybe not totally theres a few splines left, but whats there is almost totally smooth and wrapped around quite a bit. The lever itself is also pretty screwed up. I'll be needing both that spliny piece and the rear brake actuation lever dealy.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Brian Moffet on May 10, 2007, 07:58:49 PM
Quote from: inanecathode on May 10, 2007, 07:56:09 PM
It just WOULD NOT idle right, acted real odd, choke modulating rpm... Turns out i forgot to plug in the vacuum line to the petcock.

When I put my bike back together after doing the carbs, I forgot to plug the YICS back in, so I had two leaks.  It would run for a little while and then die.  Run for a little while, then die.

Welcome to the club  ;D

Brian
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on May 10, 2007, 07:59:59 PM
Quote from: Brian Moffet on May 10, 2007, 07:58:49 PM
Quote from: inanecathode on May 10, 2007, 07:56:09 PM
It just WOULD NOT idle right, acted real odd, choke modulating rpm... Turns out i forgot to plug in the vacuum line to the petcock.

When I put my bike back together after doing the carbs, I forgot to plug the YICS back in, so I had two leaks.  It would run for a little while and then die.  Run for a little while, then die.

Welcome to the club  ;D

Brian

I'm of the 'no yikes' club at the moment!
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Tiger on May 10, 2007, 08:05:53 PM
Quote from: inanecathode on May 10, 2007, 07:56:09 PM
I managed to strip one of the screws holding the master cylinder cover on, so that'll get done when i can find a screw to replace it.

:) p.m. me your name/address and I'll send you two new one's... 8)

                       
8).......TIGER....... 8)
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Night Vision on May 10, 2007, 09:25:54 PM
Quote from: inanecathode on May 10, 2007, 07:56:09 PM

Edit!
Alright well, found out what was wrong with the front brake. It was both super low on fluid, packed with air, and the brake fluid in there resembled milk.

good thing you caught it now.... after awhile, brake milk turns to cheese! pm me if you need a pic of a master packed with cheese  :(
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on May 10, 2007, 10:14:22 PM
Quote from: Night Vision on May 10, 2007, 09:25:54 PM
Quote from: inanecathode on May 10, 2007, 07:56:09 PM

Edit!
Alright well, found out what was wrong with the front brake. It was both super low on fluid, packed with air, and the brake fluid in there resembled milk.

good thing you caught it now.... after awhile, brake milk turns to cheese! pm me if you need a pic of a master packed with cheese  :(


Lol i think i do need that pic now!

Thanks for the offer tiger, but i'm gonna simply run down to McGukins and get a couple socket heads that fit where these go, probably replace the damn set screw for the choke cable housing down by the carbs, this thing is stuck super hard!
Plan of attack!
-Find brake drum cam-splined-thingy to replace the bad one Obtained!
-Find brake drum splined lever thingy to replace the bad one Obtained!
-Socket head screws to replace master cylinder cover screws
-Pet cock rebuild kit (damn thing leaks in the on position Ordered!
-Oil the air filter Got the oil!
-Replace rear mixture screw
While i wait on the parts i need to get my vision safe on the road, i'll be (attempting) to paint the plastics and fairing using the roll on rustoleum technique.

Hard left!

Sanded my right cover down with 400 grit paper (probably should have  used a higher grit) and put on my first coat of Hunter Green rustoleum paint. Observations:
I think i missed a few spots while sanding, the paint pulls away from these spots.
I can see why this would turn out really nice, just by self leveling its very smooth and very glossy
I mixed my first coat too thick, more like runny yogurt than milk (needs a milk consistancy)
Its hard to sand black paint off of a black part, dont know when you've gone far enough

I'll fill in the parts that i missed and see if the paint will stick (relax relax, just a practice run anyway :)) then go ahead and wet sand with 400 grit again, one more coat, then 800, one more coat, then 1500, then polish :)
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: h2olawyer on May 10, 2007, 11:04:58 PM
Great ride to visit inanecathode & grab some lunch in Blackhawk.  Gotta love Buffalo Burgers!

After a few glitches, fits & starts, his V is beginning to run pretty good.  May need another carb cleaning and definitely needs a new mixture screw for the rear carb.  Should be running great with a little more time & effort.  I suggested running some carb cleaner through it (the gas additive type).  Like most bikes, it needs to be run a bit before the full benefits of cleaning are fully realized.  This will be a very fine addition to the running ROV Visions when he gets the brakes sorted & the carbs entirely done.  Carbs are very close.  We got them even closer today.

As a quick note - my silver V ran fantastic on the ride.  Did 200 miles round trip today & it never missed a beat.  Temp is running lower with this stator & it charges @ 14.7 volts, steady as a rock.  Drops a bit at idle (couple tenths).  Also, runs a little over 14 volts with the aux lights on.  This OEM stator seems to be a good one - THANKS, PROFESSOR REX!!!  The 35 miles of straight, 65 MPH running is a little boring, but the temp stayed just left of center.  Ambient temp was 80 (F).  This stator not only charges stronger, it seems to be running cooler as well.  Even in the 35 - 45 MPH sections the bike stayed cooler.  I used to need to run my cooliing fan when going less than around 40 MPH to keep the temp near the center.  Not the case now.   ;D

H2O

Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: ProfessorRex on May 11, 2007, 03:04:22 AM
Quote from: h2olawyer on May 10, 2007, 11:04:58 PM
This OEM stator seems to be a good one - THANKS, PROFESSOR REX!!!  The 35 miles of straight, 65 MPH running is a little boring, but the temp stayed just left of center.  Ambient temp was 80 (F).  This stator not only charges stronger, it seems to be running cooler as well.  Even in the 35 - 45 MPH sections the bike stayed cooler.  I used to need to run my cooliing fan when going less than around 40 MPH to keep the temp near the center.  Not the case now.   ;D

I told you Rob, Those parts are BLESSED WITH ELFEN MAGIC!!!  Seriously though, I paid $15 for that stator on ebay, I can't believe it's good!  I bought it with the intention of re-winding it! HA!

-Rex
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on May 14, 2007, 07:59:40 PM
Sorry about the slow update, if anyones been following my other thread (shakes head), my stupidity caused the shearing of my rear brake tensioner bar bolt, and the subsequent destruction of my axel nut, actuating rod, brake cam and brake cam arm. I just returned from h2o's house with the needed parts, and a trip to ace hardware for the BTB. All the parts are on, most importantly they're ALL TORQUED DOWN!

Just waiting on a few things:
Master cylinder rebuild kit
Master cylinder cap screws
Good weather for:
-Resyncing
-Remixing
-More painting

Good to have the V back to where it was before my stupid brain affected it.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Brian Moffet on May 14, 2007, 08:07:26 PM
Quote from: inanecathode on May 14, 2007, 07:59:40 PM
Master cylinder cap screws

I bought mine at a local hardware store, I believe they are 4 mm x 8 mm long.  I grabbed a couple of stainless steel flush hex driver type and they work great.  Spent about 50 cents on them.

FYI
Brian
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on May 14, 2007, 09:40:33 PM
I got some coming from one of our visionaries :D
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Aelwulf on May 15, 2007, 12:08:46 AM
Hi all. :) Just joined, tried hitting the forums from the site a couple times and some reason didn't work.  That, or I was just hitting the wrong button (always possible).

I have an '82 Maroon Vision I bought for $100 about two years ago.  Guy had it sitting for around five years to restore it.  It's rather beat-up but I figured it'd be a good first bike being under 600CCs and a top speed around 60 MPH (according to the speedo anyway).  I got to replacing most of the things the guy said it needed and getting a couple of parts off eBay since I didn't like the looks of the original (such as the radiator nozzle).  Then my crew rotation got in the way and it sat for almost two years for me.  I now have a guy doing the 'heavy' work on it to get it up and goin'.  By now it pretty much just needs fork seals, a stator and a gas tank (frakkin' rust spots, and a bad attempt at sealing it by someone).  The first two I've ordered off eBay and will be bringing to him shortly.  The gas tank is proving problematic though.  Anyone know a good site to get reliable new or rebuilt ones?  One of the dealerships in town is claiming to be able to get a new silver tank, but it's an arm & a leg (if they actually can).  Everywhere else I've found that has tanks they're not serviceable.  Thanks for the help, and I look forward to lurking around. :)
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: kwells on May 15, 2007, 12:15:33 AM
not going to find a ready to use tank for cheap. 

This is one available but is going to need some work as well

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/82-Yamaha-Vision-XZ550-XZ-550-Fuel-Gas-Tank_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ35586QQihZ009QQitemZ190111586376QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: h2olawyer on May 15, 2007, 12:17:24 AM
The supply of useable tanks is dwindling.  They all tend to rust out at the lower corners.  If the rust isn't too bad, you can fix the holes and linr the tank using either POR-15 or Caswell products.  They do come up on occasion on eBay.  However, those are tough to decide whether they're useable or not.

If all else fails, the dealer can actually get one & you can afford it, the new one would be your safest bet.  You should still line it before using it, though.  It would prevent the tank from ever rusting out again - at least for many, many years.

There has been talk of molding some plastic tanks in the same style, but I don't know where that project is at this point.

Welcome to the forum & good luck getting your V into good, safe riding condition!

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Aelwulf on May 15, 2007, 12:30:38 AM
Thanks.  If it's a matter of repairing one there's a radiator shop in town that does bike tanks so I'll see if they can do it.

I've heard of POR-15 and been to their site once, I'll keep that in mind.  Thanks for the input. :)
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: YellowJacket! on May 15, 2007, 09:25:00 AM
I used an epoxy like "fuel tank sealer" plus Lucky, um I mean, "Lester the good Vision Gremlin" took my tank to have some of the bigger holes welded.  Afterwards, I sprayed the under side of the tank with spray on truck bed liner to add an extra layer of protection.  Its sealed up pretty darn good now without a hint of a leak or smell of gas.  oh boy did I just majorly jinx myself......

David
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on May 15, 2007, 06:37:28 PM
Man, stripping these fairing pieces by hand is total BS, theres like 4 layers of paint plus 2 primers, it's hard as a rock, and smells HORRIBLE when it gets in the air. I got a quote from a local metal finishing place that has a plastic bead machine, 50-100 bucks to strip the whole fairing.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: h2olawyer on May 15, 2007, 06:50:39 PM
Why strip the whole fairing?  If the paint on it is securely adhered, I'd just sand it to give it teeth, then prime and paint it.  That's what I did with my fairing.  Even used the crummy Dupli-Color rattlecan primer & paint.  Didn't come out as glossy as I'd have liked, but otherwise, I'm very satisfied.  The paint is sticking great.  However, I will be getting it professionally repainted next winter.

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on May 15, 2007, 07:19:22 PM
The fairing apparently used to be silver, that paint is (was) sticking fine, but the subsequent layers of crappy rattlecan (i mean, real crappy) and latex house paint leads me to stripping it all the way to the gelcoat. The residue from sanding this thing smells HORRIBLE, this sickening sweet smell that gives me a wicked headache.
Eeeeeew:
(http://i9.tinypic.com/5yt9tuq.jpg)
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on May 15, 2007, 08:46:32 PM
And now for something more pleasant. Keep in mind this isnt shined at all, its just how the paint dried after BRUSHING it on.

(http://i2.tinypic.com/4yg5oq8.jpg)
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Night Vision on May 15, 2007, 09:06:36 PM
eco-vision eh? I think Brewski's is green also .

kudos to you for breaking new ground here and trying the paint. I take it you aren't using the foam roller like the Charger guy did?

I'm tossing the idea around of Por-15'ing my frame I'm stripping down... I wire brush it to bare metal and it starts to rust... y-not?
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on May 15, 2007, 09:31:57 PM
Quote from: Night Vision on May 15, 2007, 09:06:36 PM
eco-vision eh? I think Brewski's is green also .

kudos to you for breaking new ground here and trying the paint. I take it you aren't using the foam roller like the Charger guy did?

I'm tossing the idea around of Por-15'ing my frame I'm stripping down... I wire brush it to bare metal and it starts to rust... y-not?

Naw im just using a foam brush. I thought green would be fairly unique, and a departure from black and red.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: h2olawyer on May 15, 2007, 09:45:21 PM
Looking pretty shiny already - at least the Pennzoil bottle reflects nicely.

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on May 15, 2007, 09:53:48 PM
Quote from: h2olawyer on May 15, 2007, 09:45:21 PM
Looking pretty shiny already - at least the Pennzoil bottle reflects nicely.

H2O

Yupperz! The dust looking stuff is just that, dust.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Aelwulf on May 16, 2007, 12:45:43 AM
Quote from: kwells on May 15, 2007, 12:15:33 AM
not going to find a ready to use tank for cheap. 

This is one available but is going to need some work as well

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/82-Yamaha-Vision-XZ550-XZ-550-Fuel-Gas-Tank_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ35586QQihZ009QQitemZ190111586376QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW


Put a bid on it just to see.  Not going much higher than it is now though.  Also asked about the side panels but then saw the prices he wants for 'em in different auctions.  It doesn't look like he has the battery cover (least not anymore), wants $20 just for the other large cover and $30 I think it was for the two small thin ones under the seat. :P No thanks there.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on May 20, 2007, 06:10:04 PM
Picking up the fairing lowers and body tomorrow. Barring bad weather, tomorrow will be painting day. Hopefully it'll rain after they're cured so i can... WET SAND!
yuk yuk yuk
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on May 21, 2007, 09:33:08 PM
One phrase: Oh for F*CKS sake.
Pieces i got back were stripped alright, right down to the WORST excuse for a gel coat i've ever seen. Its totally pitted, holy, cracked all over (gel coat, not the fiber glass). I spent most of today gassing myself with bondo and filling in all the holes/cracks/damage i could find. I'm 70 percent happy with the job i did, and i hope the smaller holes i left will get filled in with paint.
Onto even MORE happy stuff!
I brought the cb750 i bought home, MISTAKE. Miss V is jealous now, i fired it up to get it synced right and the mixtures set, and its just not running right at all:
- It takes a long long time to come down off of 3000rpm when i blip the throttle
- Once down around 1500 rpm, the throttle stop adjustment seems to do absolutely nothing to the idle speed
- It might just be cause i have bad hearing perception, but the mixture screws dont seem to be doing anything unless they're at the very extremes of the adjustments. Case in point, i can unscrew the front carb mixture screw ALL THE WAY OUT and it won't stumble
- The V burnt me more times than i can count
- The idle problem seemed to get a bit better when i took the syncing tool off, so i trimmed back the stretched out ends of the hoses a bit, don't even get me started on how hard it is to sync this thing now, i can't get them to level out at all, one will climb way way up, i'll blip the throttle, and it'll go shooting up the other way. When i adjust the sync rod one way the idle gets lower and stumbly, when i adjust the other way the rpm's climb rapidly.
- Periodically the rpms will just climb and climb, up to 4k rpm without any user input

Any suggestions? I tried looking for a vacuum leak with whatever carb cleaner i had leftover, and i dont think i spotted anything, i cant tell if the rpms rise because of the cleaner or they rise because it's seeking a bit.

part two:
I got the skinny side cover and master cylinder screws from lou today (thanks lou!), and the brake parts from tiger (thanks tiger!).
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Lucky on May 22, 2007, 12:08:33 AM
you have a BIG vacuume leak, probably the YICS, but check everything.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on May 22, 2007, 12:19:02 AM
Aye no yics hooked up yet, i squirted carb cleaner all over and didnt hear a huge change in rpm. Any other places i should look in particular?
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: h2olawyer on May 22, 2007, 12:35:09 AM
You did hook the vacuum lines back to where the manoeter was connected, right?  Did it idle OK then?  Wonder if there may be a leak in the manometer tubing?

Keep looking over all the vacuum lines to make sure everything is connected.  Also, make sure the YICS caps are not leaking.

Couldn't tell for sure if you were talking about the CB or the V with the problems.  Told you the V could be a jealous mistress!   :D

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on May 22, 2007, 12:39:30 AM
I know :( unfortunate it is!
I think it may be the caps leaking, i know for sure the manometer tube is leaking, the idle issue got better after i unhooked it and plugged the pet cock back in and the plug on the other side.
I suppose i'll just replace the caps, i'm pretty sure the intake manifolds arent leaking, then again its hard for me to hear the changes in rpm...
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on May 23, 2007, 11:47:51 AM
Ick!
I can't find the vacuum leak :/ Is it really leaking though? It runs great other than the slow return to idle from 3k (also have a problem, it doesnt like WOT off of idle, i have to kinda coax it up to 3k rpm, from there WOT gives me near instant rpm response)
I tried carb cleaner EVERYWHERE i could reach, didnt hear a change in idle. I havent taken the tank off again yet, perhaps the vacuum flapper is leaking. I do know that theres some real hard vacuum lines i need to replace, fuel pump being one of them.
On a negetive pressure system like this, should i be putting hose clamps on every line/cap i can find, screw type or just the spring type?
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Night Vision on May 23, 2007, 12:56:42 PM
save me the trouble of searching 11 pages of this thread...

have you totally disassembled the carbs and dipped them at least once?

did you clean all of the passages with an appropriate sized wire?

does moving your choke lever do anything when it's running?

do your choke plungers retract all the way?

what's the average wing velocity of a unladen african swallow?
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on May 23, 2007, 01:29:56 PM
Quote from: Night Vision on May 23, 2007, 12:56:42 PM
save me the trouble of searching 11 pages of this thread... K

have you totally disassembled the carbs and dipped them at least once? Didnt dip, but cleaned VERY thouroughly with crc

did you clean all of the passages with an appropriate sized wire? Nope, didnt want to either, i've ruined jets with even brass wire before :o

does moving your choke lever do anything when it's running? Yes, idles higher when it's half applied, kills it when it's fully applied

do your choke plungers retract all the way? yes

what's the average wing velocity of a unladen african swallow? 42

Went to start it this morning (pretty cold, probably 50 degrees or so) wouldnt start wouldnt start, turned the choke all the way off, suddenly it started alot better :o

I'm getting a vacuum cap set and a handful of clamps/new hoses. All new hoses, all new clamps.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Brian Moffet on May 23, 2007, 01:38:24 PM
Quote from: inanecathode on May 23, 2007, 01:29:56 PM
Yes, idles higher when it's half applied, kills it when it's fully applied
Went to start it this morning (pretty cold, probably 50 degrees or so) wouldnt start wouldnt start, turned the choke all the way off, suddenly it started alot better :o

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but these two items sound like the bike is running too rich, not too lean.  A Vacuum leak would cause the bike to run too lean. 

Brian
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Ken Williams on May 23, 2007, 01:48:55 PM
I have experienced a problem that caused unwillingness to return to idle.  The cause was hard deposits in the bleed holes located in the carb bore wall, adjacent to the throttle plate in the closed position.  The fix was breaking off the deposits by running a wire through the holes.  My carb cleaning technique was insufficient to remove these deposits without usage of a wire. 

I believe unwillingness to return to idle indicates a lean condition. 
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Night Vision on May 23, 2007, 03:06:56 PM
Quote from: Ken Williams on May 23, 2007, 01:48:55 PM
I have experienced a problem that caused unwillingness to return to idle.  The cause was hard deposits in the bleed holes located in the carb bore wall, adjacent to the throttle plate in the closed position.  The fix was breaking off the deposits by running a wire through the holes.  My carb cleaning technique was insufficient to remove these deposits without usage of a wire. 

I believe unwillingness to return to idle indicates a lean condition. 


I missed those tiny bleed holes and the choke supply circut also the first time around. The idle increasing when the choke is partly applied would also indicate its running lean... BUT

Don't be a "SillyCathode" you are chasing your tail trying to tune carbs that aren't spotless...
get a six pack of guitar strings and clean dem carb passages. The jets come out so that is not a valid excuse...
and the correct answer is 24
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Aelwulf on May 23, 2007, 03:20:59 PM
Quote from: Night Vision on May 23, 2007, 03:06:56 PM
and the correct answer is 24

I thought it was 42? ;)
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Night Vision on May 23, 2007, 04:54:12 PM
Quote from: Aelwulf on May 23, 2007, 03:20:59 PM
Quote from: Night Vision on May 23, 2007, 03:06:56 PM
and the correct answer is 24

I thought it was 42? ;)

I should have clarified the answer was to be in mph not km/h...

The airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow is roughly 11 meters per second, or 24 miles per hour, beating its wings 7-9 times per second. And a 5 ounce bird cannot carry a one pound coconut


you may be thinking of an unladen European swallow, which tops out at 42 km/h
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: h2olawyer on May 23, 2007, 06:27:52 PM
Ok - now that the airspeed velocity of the unladen swallow is answered, what is your favourite colour?   ;D

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Night Vision on May 23, 2007, 08:29:09 PM
Quote from: h2olawyer on May 23, 2007, 06:27:52 PM
Ok - now that the airspeed velocity of the unladen swallow is answered, what is your favourite colour?   ;D

H2O

3
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on May 24, 2007, 02:09:45 AM
Lol!
*Applies judicious usage of forum rudder*

So the moral of the story, is i should take the carbs *back* out again, and dip them?
About the dipping:
What is EVERY rubber/fiber/dissolvable piece i need to remove? I'm seriously paranoid about destroying internal components. After i take the  float bowl drain screw out and the float/needle assembly, are there anymore o-rings etc i need to worry about? Will carb dipping stuff remove hard deposits (worried im going to damage or miss passages, which ones in particular should i be looking for)?
I'm off to get a vacuum cap set, clamps, and some carb cleaner and go to work on this thing before i go taking stuff apart again :o

On a side note, anyone ever done fork seals before? Any good faqage on the subject?

Part two!
The extra pair of righteous bags have been successfully delivered to aelwulf, and after a brief visit with him and samsr and samsr's wonderful garage-o-parts i'm several pounds heavier in parts:
1 Clutch switch (dont ask how i know mine is broken, it involves a freshly painted harley chopper, a glass case, and a 82 vision starter)
1 Seat pan with bits of foam (project actually, plan on making a solo seat)
1 End body cap, tail light piece (related to the above, plan on (samsr's suggestion) making a fairing type deal that blends the end cap and the rear of the seat by both not looking totally stupid, and not looking cafe-ey)
2 Rear brake springs (brake switch spring, brake tensioner spring)
2 Hinge pins (score!)

Drive to and back from fountain sucked really, pretty heavy rain, low clouds, highly reflective road surface. No fun.
Happy to report that both aelwulf and samsr are totally sane, all together stable individuals... Cept the whole 'owning a V' part...

Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Night Vision on May 24, 2007, 07:47:06 AM
Quote from: inanecathode on May 24, 2007, 02:09:45 AM

So the moral of the story, is i should take the carbs *back* out again, and dip them?
I would

About the dipping:
What is EVERY rubber/fiber/dissolvable piece i need to remove? I'm seriously paranoid about destroying internal components. After i take the  float bowl drain screw out and the float/needle assembly, are there anymore o-rings etc i need to worry about?
there are itsy-bitsy orings and washers at the ends of the pilot screws. don't lose them. you may need a paper clip or wire to get the orings out.

Will carb dipping stuff remove hard deposits (worried im going to damage or miss passages, which ones in particular should i be looking for)?

All of them! it's pretty intuitve once you get in there and start poking around. the only real tricky ones / easy to miss are the tiny air bleed holes near the butterflies and the choke circut supply passage. search canandian lou's post on the latter

I'm off to get a vacuum cap set, clamps, and some carb cleaner and go to work on this thing before i go taking stuff apart again :o

might as well try so techtron too if you want to go that route

On a side note, anyone ever done fork seals before? Any good faqage on the subject?

yes, they are easy and covered well in the Haynes manual

Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on May 24, 2007, 11:13:39 AM
Ah ok, just browsed the haynes manual about the fork seals. Doesnt look too scary, although the 'dampner rod holding tool' might be hard to manufacture :o
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Brian Moffet on May 24, 2007, 12:00:18 PM
I put together mine from the hardware store, long bolt and 2 nuts.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Night Vision on May 24, 2007, 07:22:00 PM
or a short bolt, two nuts, couple of 3/8" ratchet extensions and wrap the joints with duct tape so it don't come apart

piece of pie and punch  ;)
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on May 24, 2007, 07:40:52 PM
Alright well, thrashed on the bike a bit today. Seems to run perfectly fine when it's cold/warming up but once it's totally warmed up it runs really weird, seeking, randomly racing, stalling out. I think i found a leak in the aft intake boot up where it connects to the carb, im not sure liquid electrical tape will fix that, it looks pretty trashed. I'm thinking about getting ahold of a pair of good intake boots and dipping the carbs. Anyone have any good intake boots (no cracks or damage around the head end or the carb end)?

IF it's a vacuum leak, the only things that could leak are the intake boots, vacuum caps, and lines. I'll replace the bad ones and see where i go from there...
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Tiger on May 24, 2007, 07:49:22 PM
Quote from: inanecathode on May 24, 2007, 07:40:52 PM
Anyone have any good intake boots (no cracks or damage around the head end or the carb end)?

::) I have more chance of becoming the POPE...and I'm a W.A.S.P... ;D ;D :D :D :D :D... ;) However, here is a quick fix...Get a bicycle inner tube, cut to the length required and stretch over the boot...Bobs yer uncle, fixed ;)

                               
8).......TIGER....... 8)
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on May 24, 2007, 07:56:50 PM
Eh i dont think that will work actually, its hard to describe how it's damaged, but the mounting ring that goes around the carb is totally split open, good half inch down the throat.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on May 24, 2007, 08:02:21 PM
GAH! 50 bucks a piece for new ones. FFS It's always stupid problems like this that keep me off the road.
Furthermore
I really dont want to dip the carbs, i'm very worried i'll end up nuking an o-ring i can't even see...
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Night Vision on May 24, 2007, 08:59:16 PM
Quote from: Tiger on May 24, 2007, 07:49:22 PM
...... here is a quick fix...Get a bicycle inner tube, cut to the length required and stretch over the boot...Bobs yer uncle, fixed ;)

that was the preferred fix before the liquid tape.......

Quote from: inanecathode on May 24, 2007, 08:02:21 PM
GAH! 50 bucks a piece for new ones......

your choice.... one large or what? $5 for an inner tube?

Quote from: inanecathode on May 24, 2007, 08:02:21 PM
Furthermore.....I really dont want to dip the carbs, i'm very worried i'll end up nuking an o-ring i can't even see...

suit yourself......
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: dj on May 24, 2007, 10:56:45 PM
Quote from: inanecathode on May 24, 2007, 08:02:21 PM
I really dont want to dip the carbs, i'm very worried i'll end up nuking an o-ring i can't even see...

If you are really worried about that then check with Lucky and see if he is still doing the rebuilds.  Not sure what he usually charges though.  Just PM him and ask.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on May 24, 2007, 11:20:49 PM
Feeling a bit better about dipping the carbs now. I successfully dipped the #1 carb on the (shhh, V might hear this) cb750k as an experiment i put an old o-ring from a trash carb in the basket with the parts, and it came out intact and still springy. This means even if i do miss an o-ring (believe me, i wont leave any in if i can handle it) it should still be fine.
I repeal my anti-dipping standing, in favor of dipping. (Im not sure how strong the stuff i got is, blue and yellow can i got from napa, pretty generic looking. Seeeeems to do alright on the softer deposits, but doesnt seem to touch oxidation, that and the oring i put in there isnt melted after 30 minutes)

Now, onto the boots:
The consensus is i should use a ring of innertube around the inside diameter of the intake boot to seal the split? I see how this will work, but on the other hand is there any reason LET won't hold up instead?

Sorry if i came off defensive before, having a pretty shitty day so far. Started off with 2 inches of snow lol
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Night Vision on May 25, 2007, 07:26:06 AM
The consensus is get new or better boots, but in lieu of that, you could try liquid tape or the inner tube fix. I think the tube is intended to go on the outside of the boot.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: QBS on May 25, 2007, 08:43:54 PM
RE: the inner tube fix...cut a length of tube same length as the height of the intake manifold (aka:rubber boot).  Cut round holes in the cut inner tube section that match the vacuum fittings projecting out of the manifold.  Coat the outside of the manifold with silicone seal.  While the silicone seal is still unset, slide the cut inner tube piece over the manifold(making sure that the vacuum fittings pass through their respective holes in the inner tube piece).  Allow time for the silicone seal to set up.  As always, declare victory.  Cheers.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on May 25, 2007, 09:04:17 PM
Alrighty, planning on going to steeles tomorrow and see if i cant find a couple good looking boots.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Tiger on May 26, 2007, 07:20:16 AM
 :) Here is a used set on eeee-bay...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/82-YAMAHA-550-VISION-XZ-INTAKE-MANIFOLDS_W0QQitemZ130117729251QQihZ003QQcategoryZ35595QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

                           
8).......TIGER....... 8)
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: zore on May 26, 2007, 10:12:30 AM
I always thank my brother in law for keeping my xz in a garage all it's life.  Nothing was dry rotted on it from sitting in the sun.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on May 26, 2007, 05:08:07 PM
Steeles was closed today, i called boulder bike works, message said they were open on saturdays. 50 miles later, they are in fact, closed.
Got a bit of cleaning done on the engine, used some 'mothers mag and aluminum polish' on what i could find. Results on non-clearcoated parts is fantastic, on the frame tubes is also fantastic, and it made the headers shine like new :D. You dont really appreciate how many un-gettable nooks and crannies there are on the V until you have to clean it. Onto the q-tips!

Bondo's "black restore" stuff is just about useless incase anyone is wondering. Basically it comes down to water based black paint, goes on streaky, comes out streaky and BARELY darker than the chalked up plastics i already have. Two thumbs down, plus it smells. I'll try a few more products before i throw up my hands and just paint them black. I've a notion armorall should blacken it up a bit.

I'm planning on taking the carbs out and using a bit of paper towel or fiberglass matting and making a tiny patch consisting of RTV and paper/fiber glass and laying it over, inside and out, where the split is on my boot and feathering it with more rtv. Hopefully that should hold alright.

Master cylinder rebuild never showed up, apparently it vanished on the way to the shop. Supplier says it shipped, invoice said it was billed, its not on backorder or out of stock, but it still just didnt show up, very odd. I'll just order one off the interwebs and do it that way.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Lucky on May 26, 2007, 06:56:48 PM
Hey inna-gadda-da-vida,

I have an 82 master cyl kit unopened, i have an 83 master (they are different).  so order the 83 kit & we'll swap.

DO NOT coat the inside of the intake with anything.  if something comes loose, where does it go? straight into the cylinder, plus it'll mees up your airflow.

--Lucky
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: QBS on May 26, 2007, 08:32:52 PM
In....ode didn't you catch Reckons' very recent strong recommendation regarding S100 engine restorer?
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on May 26, 2007, 08:37:24 PM
Re QBS: mmmmm no i dont remember that :/
Lucky: In the interest of time i'm going to see if i can't get it ordered myself and overnighted. Nothing against your most likely elven magic blessed kit, but i'm trying to get my V totally done this week (yeah yeah, totally done, but at least 90% done, roadworthy if you will)

Good call on the intake sealing, i wasnt thinking, i'll just go ahead and slather some around the throat with the carb mounted. The stuff is soft enough that i'll be able to just pull the carbs off of the goop when time comes to do that.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Lucky on May 26, 2007, 09:19:33 PM
in, it's memorial day weekend, no mail Monday, i'll ship it overnight on Tuesday if you want, & you can order & send me the 83 kit regular mail, save the overnight shipping charge.  i have an 82 kit i can't use, & can't afford an 83 kit right now...
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on May 27, 2007, 12:22:46 AM
Quote from: Lucky on May 26, 2007, 09:19:33 PM
in, it's memorial day weekend, no mail Monday, i'll ship it overnight on Tuesday if you want, & you can order & send me the 83 kit regular mail, save the overnight shipping charge.  i have an 82 kit i can't use, & can't afford an 83 kit right now...

Alrighty then, sounds like a plan. Pm sent.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on May 29, 2007, 12:12:48 AM
Had a nice ride, and a good visit with mister kwells, got my fork seals now :D. Gained some valuable insight into carb cleaning, plus its good to shmooze with fellow Vnaries :D

On a more serious side, miss V isnt running right at all. It wont start with ANY throttle, accelerater pump, enricher at all. Meaning you have to just let the throttle sit on the stop and crank it for a while. It doesnt idle without the throttle cracked, it doesnt like low end wide open throttle, or any sudden throttle changes under 5k rpm, on the way home it took a while to get below 3k rpm. I'm just going to take the carbs totally off, totally apart, dip, wire, and replace the leaky intake boot. Seriously though kids, enough messing around, im gonna fix it, and fix it right.
Tomorrow will be a steele's day, part of a painting day, and maybe a smidge of CB750 day. Kinda putting off the painting, it's not going as i'd like it to, but might as well just finish the job THEN see how it turned out.
Also, i will do the fork seals like i do anything else i dont know how to do... Get help! Only half kidding really, i wouldnt mind stealing precious V time from a fellow colorado visionary to help me do the forks. I don't know about their vision... or themselves for that matter lol.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: h2olawyer on May 29, 2007, 01:18:46 AM
If you can get your V running better, bring it down to Ft. Collins.  We can knock out the fork rebuild in a couple hours - max.  (assuming there are no serious issues with them)  I've done two sets so far & need to do Silver Vs again.  Unknown reason for it, but the right fork never really sealed well after the last rebuild.  Guess I'll try some actual motorcycle fork seals rather than the ones from my local bearing supplier.

I'd come up there to help, but I finally am home for an extended period & have multiple V projects to finish before the June party.

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Brian Moffet on May 29, 2007, 09:45:53 AM
Quote from: inanecathode on May 29, 2007, 12:12:48 AM
replace the leaky intake boot.

You probably know this, but this one is really serious and will cause huge problems.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on May 29, 2007, 11:56:02 AM
Eh? Don't follow :o
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: dj on May 29, 2007, 12:02:23 PM
Quote from: inanecathode on May 29, 2007, 11:56:02 AM
Eh? Don't follow :o

He is talking about the fact that if your intake boots are cracked that they could be cause a serious compression leak which will make the bike run like crap.  Fix those before doing to much more as that might be your problem.

Take it one step at a time as you might just fix the problem with step 1 instead of doing steps 1-5 all at once and not noing which one actually fixed it.  Just trying to save you some time and effort as this may be a simple fix.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on May 30, 2007, 03:12:30 PM
Picked up an idle mixture screw as my old one is trashed, and a drain screw because my o-ring is trashed on mine.
I'll just run a bit of wire through my jets to make sure they're clear, and clean/seal the new intake boot. About the intake boot, is it a bad idea to reuse the old gasket if it's not leaking? Also, is it a special composite or can i just whip one out of a chunk of gasket paper?
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Lucky on May 30, 2007, 04:00:08 PM
don't use wire to clean a jet, you'll gouge it, instead, use a piece of nylon fishing line.

you should be able to make an intake gasket out of the regular gasket material.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: samsr on May 30, 2007, 07:21:57 PM
If you take the carbs totally appart, DONT  forget to clean the small holes in the emulsion tubes.  Thes cause major problems.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Night Vision on May 30, 2007, 08:34:14 PM
Quote from: Lucky on May 30, 2007, 04:00:08 PM
don't use wire to clean a jet, you'll gouge it, instead, use a piece of nylon fishing line.

you should be able to make an intake gasket out of the regular gasket material.

yeah, thinking back, the kits came with new jets so I did not use my guitar strings on them...

thanks for making that clear
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 02, 2007, 12:08:13 PM
What's the default pilot screw adjustment? 3 turns out right?
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Night Vision on June 02, 2007, 12:31:53 PM
3x3 should get you going
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 02, 2007, 12:34:26 PM
cool
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 02, 2007, 01:59:59 PM
GAH!

I still cant get it to run right. I took the carbs out, cleaned out the pilot jets thoroughly (there was some crap sitting down in the pilot jet plug), sealed up the new intake boot, put it on, and its STILL running weird.
The front mixture screw does absolutely nothing, the rear mixture screw (when i can finally get to it) does absolutely nothing as well. It's racing on its own randomly, seeking, the idle adjustment does next to nothing, it's slow coming down off of rpms. And now, none of the instruments work. Tach is inoperable, idiot lights except for the bright bulb are inoperable, horn doesnt work, turn signals don't work.
And with the syncing tool, i have no idea what im doing or what's going on. Turning the sync rod one way, the idle increases alot, but the sync tool says they're way out of sync, turning the other way, i can get the sync tool to say they're synced right, but the idle is crappy.
Heads are going to start rolling soon, and i bet they won't be mine >=(
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Lucky on June 02, 2007, 05:39:42 PM
QuoteTurning the sync rod one way, the idle increases alot, but the sync tool says they're way out of sync, turning the other way, i can get the sync tool to say they're synced right, but the idle is crappy.

that's what should happen.

turn the synq rod (slowly allways) so that the balance improves. yes, the idle will change, but you adjust it with the idle screw. 

rinse & repeat.

eventually you should have it down to a managable idle & balanced carbs.  if you can't turn the idle down far enough, back off the adjusting nut under the run switch on the bars.

--Lucky
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 03, 2007, 03:30:22 AM
It won't idle though, and the mixture adjustment does absolutely nothing.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Lucky on June 03, 2007, 07:16:56 AM
if the synq is way off, it'll idle like crap. you have to get the synq fairly close.

so we are clear, idle screw & pilot screws are different

I was refering to idle speed. i know your tach is out, but it should idle at around 1300.  guestimate it if you can.  any lower & it'll idle rough anyway (it'll lope like a big block with cams) remember a car will idle at 600-800 rpms, don't be fooled thinking the bike won't idle 'low enough', 1300 is normal for a Vision.  if H20 was there he could get you close by 'sound'

slowly turn the pilot screw in untill you notice a difference in the idle then turn the screw back out. it should smooth out again & then roughen again.  set the screw at the mid point.  82's will have a large 'midpoint'

repeat with the other pilot screw.

do all this with the YICS capped.

if your pilots screws can be turned all the way in or out without stalling the bike, the carbs are still dirty.

--Lucky
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 03, 2007, 11:19:04 AM
I suppose my carbs are still dirty then :/ my pilots do just as you said, no change.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: visionless on June 03, 2007, 11:26:21 AM
At this point you call your father who has owned a Vision since 1984 and let him fix it.  Wait I think that only works for me. Sorry!
                       Chris
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 03, 2007, 05:00:06 PM
Lol, well, i don't understand. Should i sync it to the guage? Or sync it till it idles higher?
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: h2olawyer on June 03, 2007, 05:21:38 PM
Synch to the gauge - you want equal vacuum from both carbs (or as close to it as you can get).  I may be able to find a day to get over & see if we can figure it out.  We had it working great once!  Guess some crap loosened from someplace inside the carbs and lodged in the mains.  We all keep saying it - clean them right the first time.  However, that often entails dipping them a second time - mine did.

As for your electrical woes.  Get yourself either a new fuseblock or some inline fuse holders (modern style, not glass tube).  Replace ALL the existing fuse holders & the ones remaining in the fuse box.  Discard the old fuseblock.  It is the most likely cause of your electrical woes.  When you do the replacement, solder the connections & protect them with heat shrink tubing.

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 03, 2007, 09:46:31 PM
Right on dude. I got a fuse block, just need some fuses and the nerve to start slicing and dicing :o
You're more than welcome to come over and get frustrated with me :D
(hopefully it wont rain :o)
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: h2olawyer on June 03, 2007, 10:24:05 PM
It ALWAYS rains when I go see you!   ::)  I'll see if I can find a day this week that has a lower chance of afternoon thunderstorms.

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 03, 2007, 10:31:19 PM
Lol, i'm in the RAIN zone.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: zore on June 04, 2007, 07:57:07 AM
This is what I do when i put a new set of carbs together.  Get a base line sync of the carbs with them bolted on and the engine off.  Take the idle speed knob and turn it all the way out until it no longer touches the throttle plate assembly but keep track on how many turns you turned it out.  Now I loosen the sync rod and turn it until it feels loose.  This will insure that both throttle plates are seated.  Turn the idle speed adjustment knob back in to where it was before.  This is a good baseline.  Next I get the fuel spray right by adjusting the fuel pump until i get a good steady stream thru out the entire throttle movement.

After started the bike and letting it warm up, I now start fiddling with idle mixture.  Working on one carb at a time, the idea is to adjust the screws and listen to the idle.  It should begin to raise as you adjust.  As the raises, turn the idle speed knob to lower the idle again.  Do this for each carb and you should be pretty close.   If it's running fine and is responsive, I may elect to leave the sync alone. 
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 04, 2007, 10:52:42 AM
It's on like donkey kong kids, i've got 6 hours before work, dark sunglasses, and carb dip.
Rawr

Also, i think i may end up dropping the fliff on new carb boots, i noticed today when looking at the front one that it's cracked even worse than it was before. I guess the rubber gets brittle, and i smacked it with the carbs going in :/ I noticed while taking the out rear one out i nudged it with a deadblow (seriously gently, not enough to break anything normally) and the side just totally caved it where all the cracks go.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 04, 2007, 12:13:49 PM
Just for giggles, heres a vid of what the V does (gets worse when it heats up more)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f40/inanecathode/th_V.jpg) (http://s44.photobucket.com/albums/f40/inanecathode/?action=view&current=V.flv)
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: zore on June 04, 2007, 12:27:14 PM
Because your idle mixture isn't correct, you have been forced to compensate by turning the idle knob in to get it to idle at the rpm you want.  The method I used to do my carbs is a good starting point.  If you've been just turning and adjusting randomly to try to get it to run, you'll just make things worse.  I'd get it back to a good base position.  Make sure the yics is blocked and spray some wd40 on those intake boots while it's running to see if that does anything.  If the engine speed changes, you've got a leak.  (Don't over do it with the wd40.)
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 04, 2007, 05:05:16 PM
Wee! Carbs are now dipped and put back together (thanks a tonne kwells!). He brought up a good point of which i agree, the front and rear cylinders and carbs are different. They're differently jetted, and with the sync rod off, you can see that the rear carb butterfly allows air past it (you can see light through it, and its the same way on the other carbs we looked at). I think (he does too) that you can't really properly sync them if the carbs are different. The vision is different, than, say, a cb750, as its not the same engine over 4 times (or two in this case) that the front and rear cylinder operate differently from eachother.
That being said, i think i'll try zore's method to zero everything out. He's right, it has been kinda a crap shoot trying to get things right, time to take it all back to zero and restart :D
Perchance h2o will assist in this stage (everyone needs a good excuse to ride anyway :))
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Night Vision on June 04, 2007, 05:40:35 PM
you can still sync the carbs with the $4 manometer even though they are jetted differently. Lots of us have.



Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: zore on June 04, 2007, 06:00:16 PM
I'm going to disagree with you here.  The castings for the front and rear carb are identical with the only differences in final machineing.  The front carb is machined wider about half  inch  deep.  After that, the throat of the carb is the exact same size.  The throttle plates are also the same number and size.

With the throttle idle adjustment knob all the way out and the linkage apart, they should be completely closed.  If one of the throttle plates is not all the way closed, then you either have the idle adjustment knob still touching the throttle linkage or a misaligned plate.  The idle adjustment knob need to be backed off all the way and can not touch the linkage or the throttle plate will not close all the way.  You'll find that your final adjustment wont be all that far from here.

Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: kwells on June 04, 2007, 06:12:14 PM
that's probably what it was.  I didnt mess with the throttle setting screw.  it may have been slightly touching and thus opening the butterfly slightly.  The carbs themselves are actually the same.  It's just fine tuning at this point.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Lucky on June 04, 2007, 11:01:10 PM
listening to the video, your carbs are out of synq...i can hear it....
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 05, 2007, 01:50:58 AM
Guage said they were in sync shortly before taking that video though o_O

Anyhow, tomorrow- er, later today (stupid closing shift) the carbs will go on, and i'll try zore's method in hopes of totally zeroing out the fuel system on this instead of making changes ontop of unknown variables.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: zore on June 05, 2007, 07:30:14 AM
Your high idle when you let off the throttle sounds also like a idle mixture issue or possible vacum leak.   All the adjustment in the world wont correct a vacum leak so make sure the system is sealed.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: zore on June 05, 2007, 12:32:03 PM
Wait a minute.  You are new to the vision but have almost 500 posts?  ;D.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Brian Moffet on June 05, 2007, 12:35:13 PM
And I still have less than a 1000  ;D
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: h2olawyer on June 05, 2007, 12:45:55 PM
Some people have turned on the "maximum verbosity" switch, while others have not.   ;D

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Aelwulf on June 05, 2007, 02:46:40 PM
Spam post spam post!!! :D

I've got quite a few for being a newer one as well (granted not 500 but still...) but I mostly just had a lot of questions and such for the process of *hopefully* getting mine to the working stage.  Now that that should be nigh *knocks on wood* I've gone more into lurker/listening mode for the moment. ;)
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Night Vision on June 05, 2007, 05:28:09 PM
OK,  I think I've got your problem narrowed down to 1 or 2 possibilities....

1) you have way too many keys on your key chain and they are shorting out your ignition switch....

or

2) your massive vacuum leak is at the port on the rear cylinder where the YICS box is supposed to be connected to..... is not capped

look about 30 secs into the video and you can see that the rear cylinder port near the intake boot is not capped. Either a non leaking YICS box needs to be connected by hose to that nipple or it needs to be plugged, capped, sealed or constipated in order to sync/tune the carbs...

same deal with the port on the front cylinder K?
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: h2olawyer on June 05, 2007, 06:39:07 PM
Good eyes, NV!!!   :o  That would sure cause many of the symptoms he's describing.  I know for a fact it used to be capped off.  Wonder when he lost it?

CHECK THE SIMPLE & OBVIOUS FIRST.   :D

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 05, 2007, 07:18:34 PM
It is capped though o_O
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f40/inanecathode/vacuum2.jpg)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f40/inanecathode/vacuum1.jpg)


I put the carbs on today, and made ABSOLUTELY SURE every line was plugged in, petcock was set right. The sync rod is totally zeroed out, the mixture screws are at 3 turns out (DAMN that rear mix screw is a pain to get at). With half or 3/4s choke it start wonderfully and idles impressively smoothly. That's about all it does. It wont rev higher without bogging out unless you eek the throttle up slowly, it doesn't really run above a certain rpm (not sure which, tach dead :/) and it smells pretty rich. It's totally out of tune and sync, i know that, so that's something to get done.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 05, 2007, 07:35:20 PM
Fiiiiive hunnnnnndreth poooooooost

That out of the way, mixture screws still don't seem to be making a huge difference in idle quality, i do detect a tiny change, but unscrewing the thing completely only changes the idle quality a tiny tiny bit.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: zore on June 05, 2007, 08:21:15 PM
You "zero'd" it out with the idle adjustment screw all the way out and not touching the throttle assymply right?  Can you take a picture of your idle adjustment screw where it is when it's running?
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 05, 2007, 08:50:35 PM
Probably 3 turns short of all the way in.
Sync tool is all messed up too, nothings making any freaking sense!
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Night Vision on June 05, 2007, 09:05:32 PM
Quote from: inanecathode on June 05, 2007, 07:18:34 PM
It is capped though o_O

hmmm, I've got a pretty good monitor at work and watched that loop lots of times before I made that prognosis.... but,  cappped is capped
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: zore on June 05, 2007, 09:23:38 PM
Well, I can offer you to give me a call some time tomorrow evening with your tools in hand and maybe I can help you out over the phone.  Up too you.  If you have verizon wireless, even better.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 05, 2007, 09:59:04 PM
Quote from: Night Vision on June 05, 2007, 09:05:32 PM
Quote from: inanecathode on June 05, 2007, 07:18:34 PM
It is capped though o_O

hmmm, I've got a pretty good monitor at work and watched that loop lots of times before I made that prognosis.... but,  cappped is capped

I know, i've seen it myself and it definitely looks like it doesnt it?
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 05, 2007, 10:03:25 PM
Quote from: zore on June 05, 2007, 09:23:38 PM
Well, I can offer you to give me a call some time tomorrow evening with your tools in hand and maybe I can help you out over the phone.  Up too you.  If you have verizon wireless, even better.

Thanks for the offer mate :D we'll see if h2o can't whip ole miss V into shape.

Im starting to think the intake boots are still leaking. Dig this, for giggles i unplugged the syncing tool and... It still ran, crappier, but still ran. I then plugged both zerts with my fingers, ran alot better. Unplugged the rear one, started running really crappy in a hurry, plugged it. Unplugged the front, and theres no change o_O none at all. I can feel it sucking but theres no change in how it runs from when its plugged off and when its not.
Does that mean anything?
Also worth mentioning when i spray wd over the front boot either it's sucking the stuff in, or its really thin, but i can see it pulsing, kind of beating, pulling and pushing the stuff out of the visible cracks.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Lucky on June 05, 2007, 10:26:13 PM
Quote from: inanecathode on June 05, 2007, 07:18:34 PM
The sync rod is totally zeroed out, the mixture screws are at 3 turns out It's totally out of tune and sync, i know that, so that's something to get done.


of course it's not running right...

synq rod totaly zeroed out: Wrong!  the rod needs to be adjusted so that the mercury, oil, vacuume or whatever tool your using to synq the carbs with are E-V-E-N! the throttle plates on the carbs may be set to open exactly the same but i'll bet you a million dollars the carbs are way out of synq at that point.

3 turns out on the mixture screws is also Wrong! you need to set the synq PROPERLY, then set the pilots as i've described more times than i can remember on this Forum.

"close" isn't close enough. do it right, do it completely, & do it once. Plus, you need to do this, we can explane how to do a job properly, but it is then your job to follow our instructions to the letter, not skipping steps, or assuming one step isn't needed or was just done because it's 'close enough. you'll be asking the same questions forever....
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 05, 2007, 10:28:41 PM
Quote from: Lucky on June 05, 2007, 10:26:13 PM
Quote from: inanecathode on June 05, 2007, 07:18:34 PM
The sync rod is totally zeroed out, the mixture screws are at 3 turns out It's totally out of tune and sync, i know that, so that's something to get done.


of course it's not running right...

synq rod totaly zeroed out: Wrong!  the rod needs to be adjusted so that the mercury, oil, vacuume or whatever tool your using to synq the carbs with are E-V-E-N! the throttle plates on the carbs may be set to open exactly the same but i'll bet you a million dollars the carbs are way out of synq at that point.

3 turns out on the mixture screws is also Wrong! you need to set the synq PROPERLY, then set the pilots as i've described more times than i can remember on this Forum.

"close" isn't close enough. do it right, do it completely, & do it once. Plus, you need to do this, we can explane how to do a job properly, but it is then your job to follow our instructions to the letter, not skipping steps, or assuming one step isn't needed or was just done because it's 'close enough. you'll be asking the same questions forever....

It is in sync though, according to the guage. The pilot adjustments still don't do anything... I can't perform the job if the bike won't cooperate :o
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Lucky on June 05, 2007, 10:31:34 PM
btw, did you get your master cyl kit yet? did mine ship?
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 05, 2007, 10:35:41 PM
Quote from: Lucky on June 05, 2007, 10:31:34 PM
btw, did you get your master cyl kit yet? did mine ship?

naw havent gotten mine yet, i'll look through the email to see if yours shipped
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Night Vision on June 05, 2007, 10:57:01 PM
Quote from: Lucky on June 05, 2007, 10:26:13 PM
Quote from: inanecathode on June 05, 2007, 07:18:34 PM
The sync rod is totally zeroed out, the mixture screws are at 3 turns out It's totally out of tune and sync, i know that, so that's something to get done.


of course it's not running right...

sync rod totally zeroed out: Wrong!  the rod needs to be adjusted so that the mercury, oil, vacuum or whatever tool your using to sync the carbs with are E-V-E-N! the throttle plates on the carbs may be set to open exactly the same but i'll bet you a million dollars the carbs are way out of sync at that point.

yep, I agree... I eyeballed the butterflies to be equal and the carbs were not at their final sync adjustment.... but were close enough to get the bike running


3 turns out on the mixture screws is also Wrong! you need to set the sync PROPERLY, then set the pilots as i've described more times than i can remember on this Forum.

three turns out was suggested as a starting point to get the bike running, again it may not be the final adjustment, but if nothing else, it will run and you have a base to count turns


if someone rebuilt or tore down a set of carbs to dip dip them, and had no idea how many turns the pilots were originally set at.... or messed the pilot and sync rod adjustments up while trying to tune the carbs.....

then having the butterflies opening equal, and the pilots out at 3 will allow the bike to run... then the fine tuning can be done using the recommended procedures 
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Lucky on June 05, 2007, 11:12:00 PM
Just as an FYI, "normal" settings for the pilots can range anywhere from 2.25 turns out to 5.25 turns out.  i've pulled several factory pilot plugs, both 82 & 83 & found both those settings & everything in between, plus all the rebuilds that i've done
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 06, 2007, 12:54:57 AM
Well, at the moment i'm stuck. Theres nothing 'wrong' with it, yet its not running right.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: zore on June 06, 2007, 05:00:15 AM
Quote from: Lucky on June 05, 2007, 10:26:13 PM
Quote from: inanecathode on June 05, 2007, 07:18:34 PM
The sync rod is totally zeroed out, the mixture screws are at 3 turns out It's totally out of tune and sync, i know that, so that's something to get done.


of course it's not running right...

synq rod totally zeroed out: Wrong!  
Actually it's not wrong.  The real idea of syncing the carbs is to ensure that the they open the same amount at the same time.  It's where you absolutely need to start at for a baseline (you never know who was monkeying around in there).  If all things were equal, the throttle plates should open at the exact same amount when you give it throttle.  It's not until you have the idle mixture and all that other aspects correct, that you should mess with that.  Secondly if you do not do it this way, one throttle plate will always be closed more than the other at full throttle.  Either it will open too far or not enough.  Changing the idle mixture will also change vacuum readings with out ever touching the sync rod. 

If you require alot of adjustment on the sync rod to get equal vacuum readings at idle, you really should be looking at other things first.  Vacuum leaks, mixture adjustment, valve adjustment and so on.  If everything is running right the throttle plates for both carbs should look like this   |  | at full throttle  and not like \  |  or |  /  at full throttle.  / | is another possibility or |  \.  And if you really muck it up  you could end up with   \  / or /  \ . 

One last thing.  You will absolutely get equal vacume readings by adjusting the sync rod at any given rpm or throttle position given what that thing actually does.  There is no way around not getting those results unless one cyl simply isn't firing.  So my point is that you could easily be masking some other real issues if you aren't carefull.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Lucky on June 06, 2007, 06:49:17 AM
wrong in the fact that equal throttle openings do not equal balanced carbs. other factors such as wear, valve adjustment, even tempurature affect how much the carbs flow & the cyls pull vacuume.

yes it'll get you close, but that ain't close enough...  the idea that synqing is to get them to open the same amount at the same time is wrong, it is to get them to pull THE SAME AMOUNT OF VACUUME.  but hey, there's nothing wrong with his bike, it just won't run right....
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: zore on June 06, 2007, 07:41:10 AM
Quote from: Lucky on June 06, 2007, 06:49:17 AM
wrong in the fact that equal throttle openings do not equal balanced carbs. other factors such as wear, valve adjustment, even tempurature affect how much the carbs flow & the cyls pull vacuume.

yes it'll get you close, but that ain't close enough...  the idea that synqing is to get them to open the same amount at the same time is wrong, it is to get them to pull THE SAME AMOUNT OF VACUUME.  but hey, there's nothing wrong with his bike, it just won't run right....

I'm saying that doing it that way can just band aid other problems if you don't address the basics first.  Sure you have equal vacume at idle, but that doesn't mean you're any where close to any of the operating rpms that you actually ride the bike at.  You can have valves out of adjustment and some cracked intake boots and still sync the carbs if you turn that rod enough but chances are it will still run like poop.  If you find that after syncing the throttle plates too each other the way i described, that you end up having to turn the sync rod a whole lot to get the readings you want, you may want to start looking at some other things.  My sync rod is possibly 1 turn away from being my original setting after checking everything else.

You need a starting point and the best starting point is to sync the carbs to each other.  Just because it's a vision doens't mean it defies basic machanical principals.  Clearly his bike has some other issues that may need to be addressed first. 

Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 06, 2007, 11:27:17 AM
Anyone have any suggestions?
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: zore on June 06, 2007, 11:43:20 AM
You had mentioned that you were replacing the intake boots.  Might be a good start.  I'm going to assume you've checked all your vacuume houses and they are leak free. 
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Brian Moffet on June 06, 2007, 12:05:30 PM
Quote from: zore on June 06, 2007, 11:43:20 AM
I'm going to assume you've checked all your vacuume houses and they are leak free. 

Including the ones to your vacuum gauge please.  ;)

Brian
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: zore on June 06, 2007, 12:14:07 PM
If you have a mighty vac pump, it can be your best friend.  Easy to check componants for vacuum leaks (hoses and such.)
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: kwells on June 06, 2007, 12:26:57 PM
I have a vacuum gauge if you want to borrow it inane...not sure if it will help
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 06, 2007, 12:54:53 PM
I think i might just replace the boots... has to be done eventually i imagine, every time i take the carbs in and out it flexes the boots more, and judging by how fragile the rear one was, im damaging them both now.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Brian Moffet on June 06, 2007, 01:03:20 PM
Quote from: inanecathode on June 06, 2007, 12:54:53 PM
judging by how fragile the rear one was, im damaging them both now.

That sounds really bad.  The carb boots I have are pretty beefy, and removing the carbs/reinstalling the carbs didn't look like it would hurt them at all.  While they are not new, they are not the originals that were on the bike from 1983.  I think they were replaced in the early 90s.

Brian
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 06, 2007, 01:09:47 PM
Aye... suppose theres no reason why i shouldnt start with replacing the boots/gaskets. 133 bucks for the boots plus shipping  :-X
What should i do about the gaskets? The boots from the 83 are going to fit the 82, what about the gaskets? Are the 83 gaskets different?
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: h2olawyer on June 06, 2007, 01:59:35 PM
Gaskets are the same - or at least they will work.

Replacing the boots sounds like a good idea at this point.

The ones on Silver V are the originals.  They have the typical surface cracking, but they're still strong & beefy.

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: kwells on June 06, 2007, 03:07:32 PM
Just met inane's brother while I was working on the V.  He was telling me of CB whoas.....
If you KNOW your intake manifold boots have to be replaced, by all means, replace them but it is an expensive way to experiment.  I think you said it was your front carb right?  I haven't checked but I may be able to get a clean spare front carb for you to check with.  Lemme know....
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 06, 2007, 11:46:58 PM
It might be both again, im pretty sure the rear one is sealed alright (read: pretty sure) but im also pretty sure the front one shouldnt be 'breathing' like i've seen it. That, in combination with unplugging the front vacuum port and there being no change in idle...
I suppose i could just replace the front one as well and see where that leaves me.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 07, 2007, 12:28:18 AM
Ah well, new boots are on the way. Those faint of heart look away!
166 dollars in total.
Sure it's pricey, but it's better than 'i think' at least now i will KNOW the boots are fine.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: zore on June 07, 2007, 02:19:54 PM
It is unfortunate, but I was going to suggest you throw the carbs in a box, i'll bolt them on my bike and see if there was any issue there.  You pay for shipping here and back and call it a day.  Unless you live close to jersey, then just ride in.  :)
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 07, 2007, 03:35:53 PM
Lol, i'll see if the boots will fix things up a bit. Pretty sure the carbs are clean. Guess i wont know until i get the new boots on :D
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 07, 2007, 08:57:43 PM
Ladies and gentlemen! Behold inanecathode's amazing powers of making-things-worse!
I decided to try my luck at getting the master cylinder rebuild kit in on my v. After stripping out ANOTHER MC cap screw, and failing to get the mirror out, i struggled over the stupid snap ring inside the MC for about an hour. Upon removal, the mc piston proceded to come shooting out, hit me in the face, and land on the couch, the furriest spot in the whole house. Another 15 minutes looking for brake clean, finally got the thing all cleaned out.
Opened the rebuild kit bag and POW, brake parts everywhere.
Another 30 minutes looking for all the misc parts. All the parts scraped together and put in an organized pile now. It was at this point i realized i had a hole in my lined pants pocket. How do i know this you ask? Walking into the kitchen to get a sharp implement, and suddenly my pants were much more jingly than they should.
30 minutes fishing cap screws, mounting bolts, and hardware out of my lined pant leg.
Now the tricky part! Putting the square peg in the round hole that is trying to get the mc cups over the piston. Im pretty sure i didnt put a hole in them, but they are on there, and i'm pretty sure they're facing the right way.
The process of putting the snapring back in:
alllmost alllmost PING!
alllmost..... allllllmost ZING!
Allllllmost..... click!
I finally got the whole thing back together and back on the bike. Put some fluid in it, and let the bubbles come out, tried to use the brake and! Nothing.
Nothing at all, not even resistance, just all the way back to the grip with absolutely no pressure at all. I try tapping the MC, nothing comes out of the holes. I try bleeding it (holding the handle back, open the bleeder, close the bleeder, return the handle) and nothing comes out. I proceed with apparently having no effect on anything in my world for about 2 hours. Still, nothing.
There it sits, in the driveway, non-functioning still. I know the brake was working before, now its definetly not working. Glad i cleared that up  :-\
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: kwells on June 07, 2007, 09:01:56 PM
i cant help but to laugh...sorry...I think lucky can offer some recent anecdotal wisdom as I cannot.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: zore on June 07, 2007, 09:37:55 PM
Dude, I just pissed my pants from laughing.  But fear not, we have all been there. 
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: h2olawyer on June 07, 2007, 09:43:42 PM
Great description of when nothing goes right.  Too funny . . .   :D

I know it may not help now, but I found the brake system is much easier to bleed if you can get some vacuum to the system.  There is a bubble of air in the master cylinder.  That bubble prevents the fluid coming out of the MC.  It's nearly impossible to get that bubble out.

The procedure below "primes the pump".

I use a large veterinarian type syringe & some rubber tubing (that came with the speedbleeder bag kit).  Hook the tubing to the bleed bolt, hook the tubing to the syringe (with the plunger pushed in all the way).  crack open the bleed bolt & have someone slowly pull the lever in while you pull the plunger of the syringe out.  When the lever reaches the grip, tighten the bleed bolt, then release the lever.  Repeat the process a couple times.  Then, with the MC cap off - so you can keep an eye on the fluid level, bleed as normal - described in the Haynes manual.  Don't let the MC run out of fluid.

Speedbleeders make this a much easier project.

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Lucky on June 07, 2007, 10:04:24 PM
http://ridersofvision.net/forum/xzindex.php?topic=6775.msg59731#msg59731
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Night Vision on June 07, 2007, 10:15:05 PM
yep, the manual makes it sound so easy... but it ain't.

usually time and gravity will win though. take your time.... feverishly pumping the lever and frothing the fluid does not help...

filling the MC and leaving the bleeder open... tapping the brake line... .then slowly pulling the lever and slowly releasing ...let it rest a 1/2 hour.... all help

on the inside bottom of the MC is a tiny hole... make sure that's open.... you should see bubbles coming up through that hole.... you'll know you're close when you start getting a "fountain" / spurt of fluid coming out of that hole instead of air....
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: supervision on June 07, 2007, 10:36:56 PM
  It's for sure, to fill the system is harder than Chinese Arithmatic.  I found out,, after the  reading up on the subject, an easy way with only minimum effort..  take your bleed screw out and wrap abunch of tephlon tape on the threads so that when you screw it into the caliper it makes alittle bit of a seal, with out bottoming against the stop.. this way you can force fluild with a syrange and a hose up the lines... go slow, have no air in the syrange or hose when you do this. start with no fluid in the resevoir, it will slowly be filled as you force the fluid up from the bottom.  it is easy because the air wants to naturally go to the top. when you are free of bubbles, move the leaver a tiny bit and it will reliese acouple more bubbles. you can also tap on the caliper , in the begining to free any stuck bubbles.  when your done shut the bleed screw, it will bite thru the extra telphlon tape and the system is nowsealed off, and  free from air.  if you try this you will never try anyother way cause it is so effective       be carefull with the fluid ,it is nasty stuff
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 08, 2007, 02:22:54 AM
It's only funny cause we've all been there, the dreaded jesus clip: *scruuuuuunch* *BZINNNNG!* "Jesus!"
Re: H2o you and your damn speed bleeders <_<

I think i'll try the ghetto mighty vac route. Lemme get this straight: Empty syringe with a hose attached goes into the bleed screw. Draw a vacuum on the syringe, crack the bleeder screw, and slowly push the brake lever in, once it bottoms, close the bleeder and return the lever. Rinse, repeat.

I'll try this first because it sounds much less messy than supervisions method (also i'm not sure i want bits of teflon in my brake system :o) that being said forcing air up is definitely the way to go. Its why most car manufacturers recommend back bleeding as opossed to traditional methods.

Word for the wise, brake fluid is a small enough molecule to go right through your skin and into your blood stream. It's been shown to sterilize men in high enough concentrations and cause all sorts of internal organ damage. Wear gloves kids :P
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: h2olawyer on June 08, 2007, 03:11:10 AM
Either method will work - vacuum or pressure inject the fluid into the system.  Biggest thing is to get the MC primed.

Don't think supervision's method will get teflon in the system, provided you work carefully.

I had less trouble getting the snap ring  than I did getting it out.  Have a set of snap ring pliers with three interchangeable jaws.  All were too big.

Keep at it - you'll eventually get that system solid again.

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: zore on June 08, 2007, 06:55:36 AM
The short cut I use is to keep the brake line off the mc until it can build up some pressure.  I put my thumb over the hole when I release the lever. 
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: supervision on June 08, 2007, 08:11:28 AM
  say the normal way of wraping teflon is maye 3 turns then this is 4 or 5.   put it just on the thread and it won't go anywhere.  use a clear syrange and supply hose that fits the bleed screw, before you hook it up fill the syrange and bleed it out to the end of the hose as much as possible before you put it on the bleed screw, slowly inject the fluid..   the idea is that you want the teflon to be a temporary seal while you put in the fluid, once full just tighten the bleed screw and it will defeat the teflon.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 08, 2007, 10:45:11 PM
Today's post is brought to you by the letter F

ACT ONE! (Revenge of the master cylinder)

First off, i broke my front brake switch (gorilla'd it when it didnt need to be gorilla'd). Thought i should get that out there.
I had a REALLY REALLY tough time of getting that damn master cylinder to function (im talking full throttle chucking of rocks, beating of pine trees, cutting of firewood). I had absolutely no pressure or anything happening up top. Putting some brake fluid in it did nothing cept make a few tiny bubbles come out, still nothing. Trying to traditionally bleed it did nothing. Forcing fluid up did nothing (except put a bit of momentary pressure at the brake handle). Pulling a vacuum at the caliper did nothing. Nothing did nothing for nothing. See a pattern here?
Heres what I DID do (take notes kids this might be on the test):
Put a syringe full of fluid onto the caliper bleeder
Put pressure on the syringe, crack the bleeder (at this point you might have fluid escaping the bleeder, no worries though)
Crack the brake line banjo bolt at the master cylinder (for me, s**t tonnes of air came out, probably a good lines worth)
Close the brake line banjo bolt
Close the bleeder
Rinse and repeat until the caliper up to the MC is clear
Crack the banjo bolt at the master cylinder
Push in brake
Close banjo bolt
Rinse and repeat until the master cylinder is bled out
Traditionally bleed the whole system

I did exactly as above and ended up with a rock solid brake, no sponginess, creeping, anything. I'm going to re-bleed the system in a few days just to make sure all the foam is out (got a little nuts on the lever, might have foamed up a bit of fluid)

ACT TWO! (the carburators of DOOM!)
Vision ran. like. crap. today. After a bit of professional help with getting the mix done (hey, i cheated, so what!). It runs a bit smoother, alot better, but a slow return to idle and the intake boots 'breathing' (spraying carb cleaner on the boots doesnt mess with the idle, however you can see the fluid getting pulled in through the cracks) makes me think the boots are actually bad. It now runs, crappily, but runs with the mixture screws all the way out (anymore and they'd literally fall out). Probably because of the vacuum leak. Sync is off (duh) mix is off (duh) and idle speed is off (duh) until the new boots get in. Im going to take sexy pictures of my boots, to make you all jealous, just you wait :D!

ACT THREE! (I sing the vision electric)
One of the inline fuses decided it was going to boil the plastic off of its ends. It literally looks like bubbled up melted plastic on the ends. The fuse is fine, but the ends are trashed (still working though, curious)

All my 'indicator'/'signal' lights quit working the other day. Oil, neutral, turn signals, horn, tach, illumination lights, temp guage all just up and quit. Curiously, the high beam light bulb still lit (important). After a bit of some intense head scratching, i got out my handy dandy haynes book and decided to confuse myself with the electrical diagrams. Everything that stopped working, all ran off of one fuse. The signal fuse.
Now, this isnt the melted fuse i mentioned, this is an inconspicuous otherwise normal looking glass fuse still actually in the fuse box. A quick check with the DVOM (still dont know wtf i'm doing with it, but makes me look smart probing at everything) said it should all work. Key on, nothing worked. A chance bump however, and CLICK everything started to work. Apparently there's bad connections in the fuse holder itself. Problem found.
The fuse box i got, is the totally wrong kind. It's a kind of distribution block, with a common power terminal, and fused grounds. I need a one wire in one wire out type affair. I'm looking at either replacing the fuse holders in the stock box, replacing the box with an ATC type affair, or going to bad-ass automatic resetting circuit breakers (a-la harley davidson) but according to the HD supplier catolog, one of the 10a ones is 12 bucks (lol yeah, i know.) so its off to the interwebs to find something.

Epilogue (much to be done)
I rate today a 6/10. Work completed yes, but needlessly pissed off and frustrated over the master cylinder.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: h2olawyer on June 09, 2007, 12:51:02 AM
You seem to be catching up with the issues.  Kick back & relax now - it is not a good idea to work on things in a bad mood (either you or the object of your efforts).  Sounds like the brake is good to go & the carb boots sound like they will be the answer.

As for the electrics, you can get individual inline fuse holders (modern type) at any auto parts store.  Solder them in & use shrink tubing.  Then just tape them down to the area where the old fuse box used to live.

I have replaced just one fuse in my fuseblock that way.  The others are still working OK for now.  (knocking heavily on wood)

Sounds like the fuse block you got is the same type I used for my power distribution center in the fairing.  Works great for that, but I can see where it would be a problem for replacing the original fuse box.

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 09, 2007, 01:27:36 AM
i want this :
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/Products/ProductDetail.asp?pcode=A/EFBB4T&cls=MSPORT
pretty bad. Its like a stock replacement of what i have. I don't quite like the look of the inline fuses, just looks too ratty for me (no judgment on anyone of course)
The only place i can find anything like that is just that, and its on a UK store. Anyone have any ideas? It'd be close to 30 dollars shipping. If noone can find anything like that i guess i could go to inline but, they're so unclean :o
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: h2olawyer on June 09, 2007, 01:51:10 AM
You mean like the middle one here:

www.easternbeaver.com/Home/Main/Products/Fuseboxes/fuseboxes.html (http://www.easternbeaver.com/Home/Main/Products/Fuseboxes/fuseboxes.html)

They aren't cheap, but they're on this side of the pond!

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Night Vision on June 09, 2007, 01:59:00 AM
 $11.95 is cheaper than the Litlefuse boxes at Pep Boys that were $15.95 back when you could find them
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 09, 2007, 01:59:20 AM
Nope, more like this
http://www.action-electronics.com/fuses.htm
Exactly what i'm looking for. Side entry blade fuse holder. Just this side of 10 bucks including shipping :D!
First class mail because it's so light
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Night Vision on June 09, 2007, 02:05:01 AM
yeah that Beaver Boy wants $70 to ship something that costs $0.01-$9.99 WTF
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 09, 2007, 02:10:18 AM
Aye, for the longest time just now i couldnt find a side entry fuse box, cept one over the pond they wanted 40 bucks to ship for :o
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Night Vision on June 09, 2007, 02:24:20 AM
nice find... I put it in the Parts Resources under F for Fuse Box
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: h2olawyer on June 09, 2007, 02:33:50 AM
Eastern Beaver's shipping is hard to understand.  For low $ values, shipping is 70% of the cost.  As dollar values rise, the % charge for shipping decreases.  He does NOT charge $70 for shipping under $10 of merchandise.  For $10, it would be $7.  All you have to do is read his shipping explanation closely.

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 11, 2007, 11:38:29 PM
Woo! Got a donor (possibly second running) vision today. Coolest part? Tool pouch, full.

Anyhow, speaking of fork seals, what's entailed in doing these? What kind of 'special tool' do i need to make, anyone made one before?

Hopefully the boots come in today, having the v sit this long without running is making me nervous :o Anyway, regardless, the tank is coming off and getting painted. Probably will be vastly easier and nicer looking that painting the fairing pieces. Just random orbit sanding off the paint to bare metal, then brushing on the paint. Suppose i could do the front fender too at some point ^-^
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Brian Moffet on June 12, 2007, 10:51:13 AM
Quote from: inanecathode on June 11, 2007, 11:38:29 PM
Anyhow, speaking of fork seals, what's entailed in doing these? What kind of 'special tool' do i need to make, anyone made one before?

Take a look at the Haynes manual, it tells how to make a tool.  It cost me about 4 dollars for parts (a long bolt, and a couple of nuts)  I'd send you mine, but the shipping would cost more than making it  ::)

Brian
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 12, 2007, 03:27:56 PM
Man, i can't catch a break on this thing i swear! Touched the cover today, and it started raining. About an hour later it was calm enough to do a bit of sanding on the gas tank. Sand sand sand, got the whole thing when i noticed a couple unsanded parts, still black. Hit them real quick with the sander. Looked fine, then i looked back and it was black again. Wtf. Sanded it, and watched it this time, stayed sanded for a few seconds then turned dark again.
Sniffed it, gas :(
Leaky tank dammit >< just two spots on the left side of the tank in the corners. I've already mixed up a bit of epoxy to spread over the leaky areas, hopefully it'll hold for a week or so so i can go riding. I dont think i'll have time to por the tank, let alone wait for the kit to be shipped to me.
Anyhow, tank is sanded down, not to metal, but enough to give some teeth to the paint. Probably get started on the paint tomorrow, have to wait for the GD epoxy to set up ><

Update: Kwells has enlisted to help me on Project: F**KING LEAKY GASTANK DAMNIT! Planning on poring the thing.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 13, 2007, 02:13:15 AM
Alright, por, no joy. They cant overnight ship the stuff, so thats out of the question.
My jb fix is freakin terrible, either its the humidity or the stuff is expired, but its still goey and sticky, totally un-set. Tube says it expired 2 years ago so.. maybe thats its.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: dj on June 13, 2007, 10:33:54 AM
Quote from: inanecathode on June 13, 2007, 02:13:15 AM
My jb fix is freakin terrible, either its the humidity or the stuff is expired, but its still goey and sticky, totally un-set. Tube says it expired 2 years ago so.. maybe thats its.

You just answered your own questions there Inane.  Expired 2 years ago...  get a new tube.  Inexpensive and half the trouble of trying to use outdate material.  ;D
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 13, 2007, 02:19:01 PM
Looks like a late night trip to town, i get off at 6 :D
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 14, 2007, 02:56:44 AM
Well that's it i guess. I can't make the meet  :-\
I left my GDMFING epoxy at my gf's house in denver, and hour away. I just now realized i left it there. I can't mix it up and patch the tank tonight, it won't be done by tomorrow night, the tank will still leak, it won't be painted, and the whole bike wont be ready in time to ride next week. My boots arent here, i dont have time to find a front brake switch, carbs arent in tune at all, fuse box isnt here so the front end is without power.
I'm really mad at myself, i had months and months to fix this damn thing and all i did was f*ck around and waste time. Guess i'll end up paying for it next week :-\
I'm more bummed that it's not even close, i didnt just leave one part unfixed, nearly the whole god damn kit and kaboodle is still un-road worthy.
Guess i'll just chase you guys around in my neon :/

Edit:
I'm kinda on the line between giving up all together and spending the whole of next week (somehow managed to get the whole week off, partly a favor from my manager) just breaking fixing up my vision more, or getting out some arc lights and spending literally every waking moment working on the V (think fans and hair driers on the paint) Still not sure what to do about the intake boots (worth mentioning again, that i swear to god almighty if i ever somehow get ahold of someone at bike bandits im going to melt the goddamn phone wires down, i paid 20 extra dollars to get expidited shipping, and this is what i get???!!!) Fuse box i could just, retape together and stick some folded up paper to keep the signal fuse in contact...
Just feels like im totally out of steam on this thing

Oh, and the guy who i won the cb parts from just welched on shipping them for a week.

Edit2:
GAH! GAAAAAAH GAAAAAAAAAAH! I've been waiting for a f*cking week for parts that are BACK ORDERED!?!!!?!? Bike bandits lists my parts as "ON F*CKING ORDER!" WHY!? Didn't they tell me this! If i wanted to waste a week of my time and a hundred and sixty six dollars for sitting around with my thumb up my butt i could have been done alot more freakin efficient!
GAH! and GAH! again.

(Sorry for the language. But they should have listed it as back ordered, or at least notified me another way besides sitting around waiting for he brooklyn bridge to go on sale.)
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: zore on June 14, 2007, 04:53:44 AM
As soon as I saw your avatar change to the big froweny face, I had coffee coming out of my nose.  I feel your pain but if you were going to do a ride like this, I'd be hoping it be on the road for a little more than 14 minutes before heading under way.  Even if you got it done last week, I'd be hesitant on doing any long rides for a while until you get a few miles on it. 
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 14, 2007, 11:08:01 AM
Thats the thing though, i did get quite a few miles in until i realized how bad of shape it was in. If i can just get the tank patched and painted, and the boots in (grumble grumble) I'll be fine. I mean,  i can get some stuff done in 3 days.
I'm going to harbor freight today to get a small canopy and some work lights. I stay up late anyway, don't see why i can't be outside working.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 14, 2007, 11:16:59 AM
Can i get it road ready in 3 days? I dunno, but i know a good way to find out!
Lights
Canopy
Boots
Brake switch
JB Weld
Paint
Dark sunglasses
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: dj on June 14, 2007, 11:24:39 AM
Quote from: inanecathode on June 14, 2007, 11:16:59 AM
Can i get it road ready in 3 days? I dunno, but i know a good way to find out!
Lights
Canopy
Boots
Brake switch
JB Weld
Paint
Dark sunglasses

Don't forget to pick up a large spray can of "Gremlin-be-gone".  If you can't find any of that a large can of "whoopa$$" should do the trick if you know the general location of the gremlins.

What are the dark sunglasses for?
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 14, 2007, 11:50:39 AM
For being cool <_<
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: dj on June 14, 2007, 11:57:28 AM
Quote from: inanecathode on June 14, 2007, 11:50:39 AM
For being cool <_<

Looks like you gotta make a new avitar face that has sunglasses on it.  8)
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 14, 2007, 11:58:07 AM
Lol, i'll get right on that after the V is worked on today. Good idea!
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: dj on June 14, 2007, 12:14:43 PM
Quote from: inanecathode on June 14, 2007, 11:58:07 AM
Lol, i'll get right on that after the V is worked on today. Good idea!

And my wife doens't think that I can come up with good ideas! ;D

You could use this one until you can make your own.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 14, 2007, 02:54:17 PM
Naaaaaw, i want it to be an inane original. Just you wait and see, it'll rock!
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Tiger on June 14, 2007, 05:45:54 PM
:) Ina...I know its kinda stinky, but with the gas tank removed and drained, take it into the house to J.B.Weld it. That will help drying time and get you on the road quicker.
Leave the windows and back door open but close any internal door's... ;)
The carb intake boots can be done while the J.B.Weld is drying... 8)
Good luck buddy...you CAN do it... 8)

                               
8).......TIGER....... 8)
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: don_vanecek on June 14, 2007, 06:35:35 PM
I believe the JB weld directions tell you to let it cure for a few hours first-then you can speed up the cure hanging a light bulb a few inches from the spot. I didn't think mine was ever going to cure till I gave it the bulb treatment! Warm, but not so hot you couldn't keep your hand on it.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Tiger on June 14, 2007, 06:42:01 PM

;) Just like one of those old spy films Don..."YOU WILL DRY OUT J.B."  ;D :D :D :D :D :D :D... ;)
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 14, 2007, 11:12:53 PM
Ok, jb is on and setting i hope, still goey after an hour. Carbs are off, intake boots are off but GAH i don't have the intake gaskets. They're "on f*cking order" from bike bandits. Anyone have any ideas? Can i use gasket material? Piece of innertube? Fuse box still isnt here, guess i'll just stick a couple inlines on there or something.

Nothing really to do except to paint the pieces again. Woo i guess :/


Update: Can't paint the tank until the JB is done. Can't get the boots in until i get gaskets. Can't tune the bike if the carbs arent in.
COME ON VISION GODS FFS THAT'S ENOUGH!

Update: Just checked my email, for i assume 5 days the boots and gaskets have been "on f*cking order" from bike bandits. I sent a scathing email threatening loss of buisness and sacrifice of voodoo dolls. 15 minutes (according to gmail time) after todays open of their office, a notification of shipment of my boots and a confirmation number of 2 day shipping. They should be here on the 18th, which doesnt really help because i plan on attending the meet from sunday to teusday. Even in light of a slight success i'm still screwed.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: h2olawyer on June 15, 2007, 12:21:14 AM
I think you can use standard gasket material.  Never actually seen those gaskets, though.  Not sure if they're metal sandwich or just paper.  Try to duplicate the thickness as close as possible.  At least your parts are finally on their way.   ::)

Like I said - you and your Neon are still welcome to come up, enjoy the get together & even tag along as a chase car.  Your presence would be quite a help!  We all know you are a (now multi) Vision owner fighting gremlins.  Heck, a friend is coming up on either Monday or Tuesday to meet the gang & ride along.  Not sure if he'll be on his Venture or his GTS1000 - but no Vision.   :P

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 15, 2007, 01:31:27 AM
At this point i dont think it's an issue of not being able to go period, it's wether i can be there on time. Fedex tracking says my new boots and gaskets should be here on monday, so if the ones off my silver v dont work out, i can always make it late.
Heres what i need to get done:

Boots off of the parts bike
Intake gaskets made
Tank primed and painted (decided to shoot a layer of ultra flat to give the green paint some teeth and a background)
Front fender painted
Plastics final coat (to give some thickness to my final sanding, final coat will go on when parts are out flat [hanging is too streaky])
Boots and gaskets on the V
Pieces parts and misc back on the V
Rough tune in (figure you guys can help me get it fine tuned in when i get to WP)

Heres what i got done tonight:
Gas tank wire brushed and JB applied and curing
Front fender off, sanded, primed
Plastics got the second to last coat of paint
Brake line pressure let off (for some weird reason the front brake was wicked stiff, made the bike hard to push even. Somehow developed pressure whilst sitting)
RH Turn signal lense on
Carbs removed, intake boots removed (intake gaskets destroyed too :D)


I don't think it's impossible, just required some major gas burning and some quick work on my part. I think i can do this...
I think i can, i think i can, i think i can.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: h2olawyer on June 15, 2007, 02:01:20 AM
It's quite a bit, but should be doable.  I think I have your cell# - I don't think I have cell coverage in WP, so I may have someone else give you a ring - or figure out how to get you the phone # in the condo.  We do have wireless internet access at the coffee shop across the street from the condo - so we can keep tabs on your progress.

Best to take your time, work deliberately & get things done right the first time.  I know - easier said than done.  I rarely get things right on the V first time through.   ::)  Work from the mission critical items to the cosmetic.  If it runs & stops well, the battle is mostly over.

H2O
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: ProfessorRex on June 15, 2007, 02:36:06 AM
Here's a bit of inspiration: (work safe)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fua0g13djo
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 15, 2007, 09:59:27 AM
Lol, even movies about asian people don't have asian people in them.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 15, 2007, 03:49:10 PM
Ok, new boots are on, carbs are on, everything is reletively put back together. Runs alot better until i mess with the sync then it starts running funny again. I'll see if i can't get kwells to help me tune it, otherwise i'll just go to the meet as is and have a brain storm session over it. I think the running issues have alot to do with the syncing of the carbs. Its just, weird. After putting the carbs on again (after i assume the sync rod was bottomed) i had to turn the idle screw way way up to get it to idle. Monkeyed with the mixture after that. After it was totally warmed up it was having some slight bogging issues but above 3krpm it was fine. I then hooked up the sync tool, hit the starter, and within 2 strokes it almost totally emptied the sync tool. I then clamped the hose down (put some clamps on the fittings themselves as well to be sure) then whilst keeping the idle up, synced it in pretty good. Turned the idle down, now its running the same. Slow return to idle, poor idling, fine above 3krpm, mixture screws not doing anything.

Help?
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: zore on June 15, 2007, 03:53:12 PM
I dont' know.  You still have some other issues. A vacuum leak somewhere. 
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 15, 2007, 03:55:57 PM
No vacuum leak, guarentee it. Brand new boots, brand new gaskets, brand new lines, to leak detected even with ether.
If it helps, it was running fine (if a little oddly, really low idle) after just putting on the carbs with the sync bottomed out. Mixture was actually affecting how it ran. Should i just ignore the sync and bottom it out?
I think the reason the sync tool was going nuts is the sync was bottomed out so there was a ton of vacuum, that and the new boots arent as flexible as the crappy old ones.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Lucky on June 15, 2007, 05:22:13 PM
here's a thought:
assuming the synq on the parts bike carb should be fairly close to right, how about swaping those carbs in at least as a test?  just leave the synq & mix as it is if it runs decent...
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: zore on June 15, 2007, 05:43:54 PM
Quote from: inanecathode on June 15, 2007, 03:55:57 PM
No vacuum leak, guarentee it. Brand new boots, brand new gaskets, brand new lines, to leak detected even with ether.
If it helps, it was running fine (if a little oddly, really low idle) after just putting on the carbs with the sync bottomed out. Mixture was actually affecting how it ran. Should i just ignore the sync and bottom it out?
I think the reason the sync tool was going nuts is the sync was bottomed out so there was a ton of vacuum, that and the new boots arent as flexible as the crappy old ones.

remember that the idle speed screw can't touch the throttle plates when you are doing.  Once you get the rod on, lock it and bring the idle screw in a few turns. When you do this, both throttle plates will open up a touch to allow idle.

I think bolting the parts carbs on might not be a bad idea as lucky suggested.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 15, 2007, 06:34:51 PM
Quote from: zore on June 15, 2007, 05:43:54 PM
Quote from: inanecathode on June 15, 2007, 03:55:57 PM
No vacuum leak, guarentee it. Brand new boots, brand new gaskets, brand new lines, to leak detected even with ether.
If it helps, it was running fine (if a little oddly, really low idle) after just putting on the carbs with the sync bottomed out. Mixture was actually affecting how it ran. Should i just ignore the sync and bottom it out?
I think the reason the sync tool was going nuts is the sync was bottomed out so there was a ton of vacuum, that and the new boots arent as flexible as the crappy old ones.

remember that the idle speed screw can't touch the throttle plates when you are doing.  Once you get the rod on, lock it and bring the idle screw in a few turns. When you do this, both throttle plates will open up a touch to allow idle.

I think bolting the parts carbs on might not be a bad idea as lucky suggested.

This is actually a really good idea, about the idle and the sync. Assuming theres no air leaks, when the idle screw is bottomed out the plates are basically sealed, ie no idle. When i monkey with the sync rod then it opens one throttle plate allowing idle, but messes up the sync in the process.
The problem i am having though, is with the sync rod bottomed out, i have to turn the idle screw in really far to get an idle out of it. Warrents a bit of poking around when i get home tonight. It does run, not well, but well enough to get it within range of a second pair of eyes.
I do totally agree that the parts carbs on there would serve a huge diagnostic tool, but honestly i dont have time to do it. I'll bring them with me, but i'd have to tear down, clean, dip, reassemble (replace bad parts in/on it) then mount it.

Tank has 2 coats of paint on it, looks pretty good so far, fender has 3, and looks very good. I guess i did have to put a primer coat on o_O

Wet sanding both the fender and the tank tonight. throwing another coat on tomorrow, one tomorrow morning, then final sand then another coat on saturday night. Everything as far as fuel system is being buttoned down tonight. I'll monkey with it for a few hours tonight to see if i can at least get it to idle right, i dont want it dying at lights. The bogging only really affects it from 3k rpm down, so i should be fine temporarily.
Other than the paint, and the fuel system, it's all set for takeoff up here in the mountains!
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Night Vision on June 15, 2007, 08:47:12 PM
sounds to me like you need an Italian TuneUp  :o ....take it out to some dark back road and treat it like a redheaded stepchild.

Sunday is Father's day so you need to show the V ....   WHO'S YOUR DADDY??!!

I'm dead serious on that advice and swear by it... maybe you have have sticky rings... carbon on a valve... a Klingon in the carb.....

I've rebuilt and dipped my carbs twice. Over the course of the last year I've dinked around with the pilot settings so many times... I have had it running good and I had it running great.... but not really consistent or up to my expectations...

Right now it's running the best it ever has... getting 45-50 mpg... yeah, a rare stumble once in awhile...  but I'm not going to mess with it any more (yeah right!)

Why is it suddenly different?

200 miles of flogging the highways and lowways.....

.....but most likely it was those three tank slapping / nut cruntching whooptees in a row that shook those gremlins off  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: kwells on June 15, 2007, 09:07:51 PM
I sorta just figured this out with Zore's comment.  Not only do you have to sync but also get the mixture settings correct without the YICS.  I realized that the mixture screws affect the performance of that particular carb in vivo. That is to say you cannot simply set the carbs to be at equal pressure simply with the sync rod and manometer.  First you have to get it to actually stay running. Then you sync with the rod and manometer.  After that you then have to set each carb's mixture screw at the 'optimal' setting.  But that will also throw the original sync off and it will need to be readjusted with the rod back to equal intake.  If at that point a better setting for the mixture screws cannot be found you are essentially done at that point.  If it still bogs then most likely the carbs will need to be yanked out and redipped.  I think I finally get it!
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Lucky on June 15, 2007, 09:56:22 PM
well, not really...yeah, do the adjustments with the YICS off, but if there are no other problems (ignition cuts out, dirty carbs, etc) then pilot settng won't affect synq at all....  set that first. then pilots.

if adjusting your pilots changes synq, your not done.

--Lucky
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 15, 2007, 11:07:00 PM
Fuel system is roughed in good enough to be ridden. Hopefully i can get a second pair of eyes and hands on it tomorrow evening (namely kwells). Fuel system: 1/2 DONE!

Fuse box actually came today! Omg yay! soldered on the wires and installed fuses, one end screws right into where the original box is. Closed the seat and it clears perfectly! Perfectly functioning, no smoke, no hot spots, no dead circuits. Electrical: DONE!

Got two coats on the tank, 800 wet sand (frankly looked pretty dang smooth already, opted for this instead of 400 to save time  :-X) and another coat of paint. Looks pretty damn good. Those damn corners and edges though, paint just plain doesnt like em. Side covers are done sans badging (just putting the badges back on, plan on plating/painting them along with the side covers again, im sure i can do better than that) and the front fender has 2 coats, 400 wet sand, and another coat. Both tank and fender will recieve two coats tomorrow morning, and pending on how they turn out it might be straight to a polish and wax. Paint: 1/4 DONE!

Can't think of anything else. Maybe fork seals but, perhaps i can get that done at WP, i really dont want to take another system apart as of yet and break more stuff :-x


Overall, i'm VERY close to being done. Just need a bit of time to dry me paint, and to get the fuel system squared away.



Carbs: Redux
Somethings very weird with the sync, i'm fairly sure i'm totally f*cking it up. Its just all over, idle all over because of it. Now instead of the oil in the sync tool mellowly bouncing about, one intake pulse literally throws oil all the way up the tube (not suck, but throw with the strength of the intake stroke) so i have to clamp it off, which i think is part of the problem, my clamping skills seem to affect how the sync looks on the tool. I just got the sync GENERALLY looking ok, mixture set ok, and got it to idle. Theres a slightly slow return to idle, and a bit of bog, but nothing outside the scope of being road worthy.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Lucky on June 15, 2007, 11:41:53 PM
it should help the oil in the manometer stay steady instead of bouncing around if you stick 2 #60 pilot fuel jets down in the ends of the tubes (we all have a bunch laying around right?)

your sucking all the oil out one end because the carbs are WAYYY out of balance.  that's the point of the manometer to BALANCE the carbs.....


BTW, your electrical isn't close to being done, it's just 'patched'...
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 15, 2007, 11:46:43 PM
Pfft, electrical is SO done :P

Oil only gets sucked out if i don't dampen the sync tool, when its slightly dampened they're in sync according to the guage. The only reason it sucks oil up and out is theres very little oil in the tool itself (did actually have it WAY out of balance once, i'll give you that) and that reduction in mass is either alot easier to throw around, or the new boots arent nearly as flexible as the old boots. It just has a violent enough pulse/strong enough vacuum to momentarily pull one side up higher than the other, not because it's out of sync, but that it literally tosses a fountain of oil up inside the tube, then ingests it once it gets over the hump in where i have it hung.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Lucky on June 16, 2007, 12:03:26 AM
oh, your right of course, what was I thinking??!!!  ::) ???
good luck.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 16, 2007, 12:10:13 AM
About? Really, electrical is done i think. Nothing comes to mind that's currently a problem, upgrades sure (louder horn, accessory lights etc) but other than one fuse melting off (weird it didnt blow, bad connections) and one cutting out, i can't think of anything.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: samsr on June 16, 2007, 11:07:59 PM
If you put a .030 mig welding tip in the end of the manometer.  It will work better.   Sounds like you may make it.  If you could get the bike to Colorado Springs I am sure we could get her running pretty well.  If you have some spare time and feel like taking her for a ride, come on down.  I have colortune and a set of gauges.  I will be glad to help.  I love a challenge.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Aelwulf on June 22, 2007, 11:50:27 AM
Yeah, mine was off pretty heavily and he got it ironed out. ;) Although I might have to go bug 'im again, found out the plug caps weren't snapped on tight and it seems to be running a tad rich again since I tightened 'em.  Pulls well though, I was doing MSF practice stuff up & down the street while waiting on the movers and nearly lifted the front wheel a bit going into second. :o Been starting pretty quick every time, no other issues I can detect as of yet.  We'll see hopefully in a week or two when I get my title/registration from Florida.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 24, 2007, 02:19:29 AM
Alright, well i guess my brake system is still messed up after just installing a master cylinder rebuild kit. Instead of the handle creeping toward the grip, it's going the other way, getting harder and harder and applying itself until i have to get off and let the pressure out of the line from the bleeder. I've fully flushed the brake system with brand new dot 3 and it hasnt really gotten any better. Theres play at the brake handle, it's not sticking or dragging, just applying itself over time. I'm not totally square on how motorcycle hydraulic systems work, but with the piston all the way back in the master cylinder, shouldnt excess pressure come out a bleed hole in the cylinder? All i'm getting is raised eyebrows so far, other than "rebuild the brake system again" noones actually had a solution for what i'm having here.
Any tips to save me a 60 dollar caliper rebuild kit?

Part two!
I've got lots of work to do on the V. Fairing still needs to be painted, i need to install my fork seals, pull the dents out of the parts tank and paint that. I'm sure theres more but i'm kinda tired to remember. Anyone ever used a stud welder on a gas tank? I figure if i fill the tank totally up with water and leave it full, then weld the studs on there won't be a rapid gas expansion event.

PS
Almost forgot, i ordered a dining room chair memory foam pad to put in my seat, i plan on shaving (depending on how squishy the foam is)  half an inch to an inch from the seat horn back to where the peak of the slope of the second passenger seat is of foam and replacing it with an inch or two of memory foam. Should end up being pretty comfy. I've got a tear in my seat cover though, anyone know where to get a new cover for this?
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Night Vision on June 24, 2007, 08:55:42 AM
Quote from: inanecathode on June 24, 2007, 02:19:29 AM
Alright, well i guess my brake system is still messed up after just installing a master cylinder rebuild kit. Instead of the handle creeping toward the grip, it's going the other way, getting harder and harder and applying itself until i have to get off and let the pressure out of the line from the bleeder. I've fully flushed the brake system with brand new dot 3 and it hasnt really gotten any better. Theres play at the brake handle, it's not sticking or dragging, just applying itself over time. I'm not totally square on how motorcycle hydraulic systems work, but with the piston all the way back in the master cylinder, shouldnt excess pressure come out a bleed hole in the cylinder? All i'm getting is raised eyebrows so far, other than "rebuild the brake system again" noones actually had a solution for what i'm having here.
Any tips to save me a 60 dollar caliper rebuild kit?

from what I have read, the piston retracts by rolling back on the square o-ring

I you can't stand spending $60 on a rebuild kit, think of it as.....

not having to replace that Stegosaurus jacket...
not having to buy a new helmet
not worrying about matching the new skin graft colors   :o  ....... get it fixxed right
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: Lucky on June 24, 2007, 08:59:20 AM
it sounds like the master is now working well enough that it's appliying good pressure to the caliper.  that pushes the piston harder & stresses that old caliper o-ring.  time to replace it.

how often do i say that one symptom masks more than one cause?   ::)
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 24, 2007, 10:13:59 AM
I guess i'll just throw more money at it and hope that fixes it. This problem wouldnt make me wreck, it'd just waste my front brake pads and kill my gas mileage.
How does more stress on the brake caliper square cut seal equal incrementally building pressure over time?
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: fiat-doctor on June 24, 2007, 10:58:02 AM
You must fix this!  We care about you!

Ok, now it's going to be easy.  When you ride the bike, the pad drags lightly on the rotor (NV is correct, the square o-ring is what retracts the piston).  But if you can "fix" the problem by opening the bleeder, that means the pressure is trapped in the hose(very possible) or in the MC because of a blocked bypass port(very possible).

The way to test to see which is when the brake is good and stuck on, loosen the banjo bolt at the MC.  If the wheel is still stuck, then the problem is the hose.  If it spins freely the problem is the MC.

Now even if the hose is "good", it's not!!!  Yamaha's of this vintage have very spongy hoses and 25 years is way too long.  In fact the 83 owners manual says it should be replaced every 4 years!!??

The MC bypass port is tiny and easy to have plugged either by incorrect rebuild or missed dirt or rubber speck.

Good luck and please don't cut corners with the brakes....  if you get the MC working properly, a new stainless line, and clean and rebuild the caliper, you will not believe how well they work.

Steve
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: kwells on June 24, 2007, 12:51:50 PM
inane,
get that spare caliper off the gray bike and identify what your specific part of the system is malfunctioning.  Then you'll have a direction to go in if you have to go start spending money.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 24, 2007, 02:28:36 PM
Aye i'll do that, throw the parts caliper onto my green bike. I suspect it's either the caliper or the master cylinder. I'm leaning towards the master cylinder actually, because if it was a bad caliper it'd be sticking, but the gradually building pressure sounds like theres no pressure relief at the master cylinder. Not totally sure, but i think the small hole towards the brake line on the MC acts as a pressure relief for expanding fluid. I'll stick a wire in there and see if theres anything jammed in there.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 28, 2007, 11:28:24 PM
Faring pieces are going up and getting more paint tomorrow, i'll try to find time next week to swap my calipers between the parts bike and my green bike. Anyone have any ideas how to keep the fluid in the line so i don't have that problem i had earlier?
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: kwells on June 28, 2007, 11:56:07 PM
just put ur finger over the hole..most of the fluid will stay in...then you can bleed easily
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on June 29, 2007, 12:07:24 AM
Guess i'd have to ride miss V down there, which means my tank has to be done :o
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on July 02, 2007, 12:05:16 AM
Tank going on the green bike is done body work wise, its sanded and ready to be primed and painted. Waiting until i can por it to put it on the bike.
Fairing pieces are 'done' as in i'm 'done' with messing with them for a while, they're just turning out to be a huge pain, i have no idea how to fix the underlying finish of the fiberglass so it wont end up looking totally stupid like this:
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f40/inanecathode/sidepiece1.jpg)
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on July 05, 2007, 11:09:14 PM
I've got the big box o por, and kwellz is going to help me por my tanks :D (3 cheers for kwellz!)
I also have the tank totally done body work wise and primed:
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f40/inanecathode/primed.jpg)

Just have to por it, paint it, and it's good to go :D. Painting should be pretty easy, this primer is really thick, super hard, very toothy, and did i mention TOTALLY SMOOTH!?

Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on July 07, 2007, 10:26:27 AM
Kwells pointed out that the body work isnt actually perfectly smooth, it has to be, so i'll be doing more of that. But! Tank is detergented and acided and i'll be poring the tank tonight, so that'll be out of the way.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on July 07, 2007, 01:48:18 PM
Someone come do my body work on the mystery machine tank. I've done it twice and its getting old :P
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: dj on July 10, 2007, 05:06:22 PM
Quote from: inanecathode on July 07, 2007, 01:48:18 PM
Someone come do my body work on the mystery machine tank. I've done it twice and its getting old :P

Third times a charm!!!!  ;D
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on July 11, 2007, 01:06:30 AM
Might do the body work again at some point, but its up and getting painted. I've got a ride to do on thursday so i want it sorta looking alright, i'll take it off and finish it after thurs.
Title: Re: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
Post by: inanecathode on July 13, 2007, 09:53:05 PM
Paint looks pretty wavy where i did the body work but, practice is practice! I've got three coats and a wet sand on the tank at the moment. Using a roller this time for giggles. Seems to be alot more even than brushing, only complaint is is leaves quite a bit of bubbles, have to float over the top of the paint with the roller to kill em. Lookin good so far :D!
Thinking about repainting or stripping my head pieces like glenn has, looks pretty sharp. Thinking i might paint it, but not sure what color. Black i guess?