Riders Of Vision

General => Board Archives => Topic started by: XZv2 on May 24, 2007, 04:14:44 AM

Title: Newsletter 8 online with info on a 750 Vision-based racer
Post by: XZv2 on May 24, 2007, 04:14:44 AM
ROV Newsletter number 8, the June 1987 number, is online at xz550.nl see 1984-87 Newsletters. NightVision, thanks for the scans you sent and for your help to read difficult sections.

This newsletter contains interesting info on a 750 cc Vision racer. It is a copy of an article published in Hot Bike of November 1985: an interview with Eddie Willbanks who built, with the help of many others, this interesting racer.
The article begins with a delightful euphemism: “the Yamaha 550 Vision, a vee-twin watercooled bike that just didn’t make it to the Top Ten in sales.” It continues: He (= Eddie) realized here was a “sleeper”, a bike that had real potential, and set his inspiration down on the drawing board, etc.
Some information on this road racer is in the article: the engine was bored and stroked to 750 cc (not mentioned are the actual bore and stroke, does anybody know??).
Mentioned are a 48 mm Weber downdraft carburetor (so one big carb was used, intake manifold was supplied by Ken Clark of Yamaha),
the cylinder heads were “one-off’s”, the weight was 330 lbs with oil, without gas, the rear wheel brake power was 87 hp @ 10.000 revs.
I have some questions:
does anybody know more of the history of this bike? Does it still exist? Other question: in the Newsletter are a number of photos, copied from Hot Bike. Those pictures show the special frame the bike has. Does anybody have an original copy of Hot Bike, November 1985 that can provide these photos in a better quality than those in the Newsletter?
XZv2 
Title: Re: Newsletter 8 online with info on a 750 Vision-based racer
Post by: supervision on May 24, 2007, 07:41:26 AM
   eurospares.com/wilvisn1.jpg       here's another project, eurospares.com/gsvisn1.jpg    there are also jpg's 2&3            eurospares.com is a site with many interesting pictures of projects and ideas, it takes hours to cover it    About that wilbanks bike, the Visionmeister and I were at Laguna Seca one year and that thing was their, sounded strong each time it was out their, but the guy droped it and  they didn't make the start of the race. Think it was running in Battle of the Twins, you could here it pulling against the Ducati's,in,practice ,down the start/finish straight, it was running FULL SONG !
Title: Re: Newsletter 8 online with info on a 750 Vision-based racer
Post by: XZv2 on May 24, 2007, 04:53:16 PM
Thank you, Supervision for the links: very interesting bikes. Difficult to see how the carburation is organized.
In Newsletter 8 the races at Laguna Seca and the Battle of the Twins are discussed, probably the '85 races.
Wonderful that you heard precisely that Willbank's bike running! I can believe it sounded strong: it had 87 hp at the rear wheel! Not bad 22 years ago.
XZv2

Title: Re: Newsletter 8 online with info on a 750 Vision-based racer
Post by: kiwibum on June 09, 2007, 02:28:16 AM
Any one else have info on the bore/stroke of this 750?
Title: Re: Newsletter 8 online with info on a 750 Vision-based racer
Post by: AMA129 on September 17, 2007, 12:11:39 PM
The bore/stroke is 89.5mm by 60mm.
The carb is a Weber 48IDA(Twin choke, downdraft)
I have one of Eddie's 750s in my old roadracer that I bought from
Dean Joas after he won the 1986 AMA lightweight modified Pro Twins class in Battle of the Twins.
When I bought the bike it was 680cc(Standard 55mm crank with the 89.5mm bore)
I raced this bike in AMA/CCS for a few years ans then had Eddie build the engine to 750CC.
Job changes, etc forced me to give up racing the bike but I've still got the bike which hasn't been started
in a good 10 years.
It is a standard Vision frame with Cerriani 38mm Front forks, Fox rear shock, Dymag tz250 front wheel,
EPM 18" rear wheel and Spondon front brake calipers with large Kosman floating dics.
Title: Re: Newsletter 8 online with info on a 750 Vision-based racer
Post by: YellowJacket! on September 17, 2007, 12:47:16 PM
Now THAT is a cool first post for a new member!  ;D
Welcome to ROV and we'd love to hear more and see some pics.

David
Title: Re: Newsletter 8 online with info on a 750 Vision-based racer
Post by: kwells on September 17, 2007, 01:08:44 PM
Was the 680 version running on the stock carbs?
Title: Re: Newsletter 8 online with info on a 750 Vision-based racer
Post by: XZv2 on September 17, 2007, 02:01:44 PM
Welcome to the board, AMA129!
Wonderful information you provide on this racer. Thanx for that.

The 89,5 mm pistons are mentioned in Newsletter 8 (that is: the 1985 Hot Bike article) as "some special TRW forging".
This suggests the pistons are "one-off's".
Do you know of any stock piston of that size fitting the Vision?
XZv2   
Title: Re: Newsletter 8 online with info on a 750 Vision-based racer
Post by: AMA129 on September 17, 2007, 07:22:14 PM
The Pistons Eddie used in my bike were one off JE pistons.
The cams are Megacycle cams that used to be listed in their catalog.
The carb used on the 680 was a 44IDA Weber. Both the engines
had intake manifolds build by Eddie Wilbanks(Formed aluminum tubing
welded to an aluminum flange)
Title: Re: Newsletter 8 online with info on a 750 Vision-based racer
Post by: kiwibum on September 17, 2007, 07:26:45 PM
Welcome AMA129, nice to have you here. Does it have a specially built crankshaft for the 60mm stroke or was it out of something else and ground to fit?
Title: Re: Newsletter 8 online with info on a 750 Vision-based racer
Post by: Night Vision on September 17, 2007, 07:44:21 PM
Quote from: AMA129 on September 17, 2007, 12:11:39 PM
.....
I raced this bike in AMA/CCS for a few years ans then had Eddie build the engine to 750CC.
Job changes, etc forced me to give up racing the bike but I've still got the bike which hasn't been started
in a good 10 years
......
.....

that's long enough, dust her off and fire her up!....  ;D
Title: Re: Newsletter 8 online with info on a 750 Vision-based racer
Post by: X-Vision on September 18, 2007, 12:12:56 AM
A VERY BIG WELCOME! Nice to have you with us AMA129. Where are you located? New, old and or current pics available?
Title: Re: Newsletter 8 online with info on a 750 Vision-based racer
Post by: AMA129 on September 18, 2007, 12:11:35 PM
The 60mm crankshaft is custom that Wilbanks had built.
It's also got Carillo H-Beam rods in it to avoid a big end bearing
failure Eddie once had in his 1st bike. Other guys that ran 
Visions back in the 80's that I talked with never had any bearing
problems with their bikes though.
I'm in Florida at the present time. Jeff Swan came out to see the
bike when I lived in Arizona back in the 1990's.
I'll have to check to see if I've got pictures anywhere and try to post them..
The bike isn't very pretty right now, or else I'd take one of it now. I'm
thinking about putting it back together again though.
Title: Re: Newsletter 8 online with info on a 750 Vision-based racer
Post by: kiwibum on September 18, 2007, 05:48:22 PM
At some stage I'm going to look into what is involved in making a stroked cranksharft for these, it can't be too hard, V twin cranks are very simple. If Burt Monroe can make one out of a buldozer axel for his Indian, must be able to make one for the Vision ;D

89.5mm bore is quite a stretch from the original 80mm, was the cylinder re-sleeved to acheive that?

Any photos you have would be interesting to see. original, current and (eventually) restoration photos are always fun to review together.
Title: Re: Newsletter 8 online with info on a 750 Vision-based racer
Post by: pullshocks on September 18, 2007, 09:10:26 PM
Does the 750 have a YICS box?  ::)
Title: Re: Newsletter 8 online with info on a 750 Vision-based racer
Post by: supervision on September 18, 2007, 09:53:01 PM
  Hello AMA129! cool to hear your story!  I was at Laguna in the 80's and heard it go, happy to have you connect with us
Title: Re: Newsletter 8 online with info on a 750 Vision-based racer
Post by: Rick G on September 24, 2007, 02:24:42 AM
Welcome to AMA 129. in 2000 or 2001  I had reason to call Jeff swan  and he gave  me the phone number  of a fellow  I don't remember his name, Sorry but my hard drive is full.  This fellow told me about three Vision road racers  with over sized pistons  (and, yes you not only have to resleve  the cylinders but also bore th spigot hole in the crank cases to get them to fit the cases)   and forged stroker cranks,  made locally . He still had the one bike in his show room. He said it made 92 hp .
I spoke to a fellow  who advertised on the forum , A racer from the Pacific north west  , who hae a set of JE pistons  with matching cylinders , he wanted to sell . we were moving and I could 'nt spare the money . I tried to email him later but the address was no longer valid , I sure wish  I had been able to get them.
Title: Re: Newsletter 8 online with info on a 750 Vision-based racer
Post by: kwells on September 24, 2007, 08:01:00 PM
I recently purchased 2 sets of oversized pistons, springs, and matched cylinders.  Have yet to get a caliper to post details though.  Also got a couple sets of race cams but also have yet to get the specs.
Title: Re: Newsletter 8 online with info on a 750 Vision-based racer
Post by: jefferson on September 25, 2007, 09:40:04 PM
Hi Chuck,

Nice to see you are still out there and still have the race bike. How about we get the old girls going and make it to Mid Ohio for the vintage thing. That would be pretty neat.

Mine isn't far from raceworthy now, it is just the things I want to do before I race it again that is taking the time. I really want to get the 680 going so I would be more on par Horsepower wise with some of the bikes out there. It sounds like I need Carrillo rods as the 680 succumbed to a spun rod bearing as did one of the stock engines before that. I think most of the sanctioning bodies are allowing bikes of the Visions lineage 700cc.

I also have SRX wheels that I would like to get adapted. The fronts no problem and is on the bike now, but the rear needs to be converted to go on the shaft drive. I was going to send it to Eddie and have him do it. I really need to give Eddie a call as it has been quite awhile. I stopped in on my way to Barber at least a couple of years ago and he had the Vision flat tracker there trying to figure out the carb situation. From the results it sounds like it worked out pretty well.

Again really good to hear from you. Post away.

Jeff
Title: Re: Newsletter 8 online with info on a 750 Vision-based racer
Post by: AMA129 on October 03, 2007, 01:50:38 PM
How's it going Jeff. Sorry, but I'm a bit too old and a way bit too heavy to get on that thing again. I think the last time I talked with Eddie, you just happened to be there. Hope everything is going OK with you and let me know if there's anything I can help with.
Yeah, rear wheels can be a pain. The EPM rear wheel on mine, I was told by Dean when I bought the bike, was like 1 of 5 made. The others went on SECA 750s that guys set up for track use back in the 1980s. I at times thought about getting the Aftermarket rear wheel for a V-Max as I think that it may work. There are also now more aftermarket V-Max wheels out there(http://vmaxoutlaw.com/tech/rear_wheel_alternatives.htm) lists some of them. It looks like a GSXR rear wheel can be modified to use the drive hub also.  I think Kosman will also widen a stock wheel.The drive shaft seems to be the limiting factor as far as wheel width goes(as well as Tire size). The one I have on the bike now is 4", but I'm sure 4.5 wouldn't be a problem. A 160 rear tire seems to be the limit, at least on my bike. A 6.00x4.00x18 slick is what I also used with no problems.  To get the 150 or 160 rear tire on mine required that the Driveshaft tube be bent in towards the drive shaft at the point where the widest part of the wheel hit the driveshaft tube on the swingarm.
Title: Re: Newsletter 8 online with info on a 750 Vision-based racer
Post by: Rich2 on April 28, 2008, 09:53:39 PM
Sorry about resurrecting an old topic.

Was just at the old storage locker.

Years ago Eddie (still around?) was working on my heads, had the crank turned down, carillo rods, mega cams... never got all the parts back.

But still have the EPM rear wheel (4" I think) Dymag front, had the frame modified by someone form HRC (the down tube attach point were modified to lock together) made it more stable in turns.

Would love to get it all back together.
Title: Re: Newsletter 8 online with info on a 750 Vision-based racer
Post by: kiwibum on April 28, 2008, 10:27:21 PM
Quote from: Rich2 on April 28, 2008, 09:53:39 PM
had the frame modified by someone form HRC (the down tube attach point were modified to lock together) made it more stable in turns.

Any chance of posting photos of the frame mods?
thanks
Steve
Title: Re: Newsletter 8 online with info on a 750 Vision-based racer
Post by: Rich2 on April 29, 2008, 09:42:21 AM
I'll try to remember to bring my camera next time at the storage locker and I will post.

In the mean time I'll try to sketch something out.

Rich
Title: Re: Newsletter 8 online with info on a 750 Vision-based racer
Post by: Rich2 on April 29, 2008, 10:11:38 AM
Well here goes. This what I can remember (I get a picture one of these days)

A similar mod was done to the Interceptor removable tubes.

(//)
Title: Re: Newsletter 8 online with info on a 750 Vision-based racer
Post by: kiwibum on April 29, 2008, 07:06:17 PM
Let me see if I understand it correctly.
- The frame has a recess ground/cut in it,
- the "bolt on section" has a protrusion welded on it that fits snug into the recess of the frame.
- This recess/protrusion is positioned where the original bolts go through,
- creating an interlocking section bolted together at the original bolt holes,
- thus holding the "bolt on section" more accurately to the frame.
Title: Re: Newsletter 8 online with info on a 750 Vision-based racer
Post by: Rich2 on April 29, 2008, 10:13:46 PM
Yes, exactly
Title: Re: Newsletter 8 online with info on a 750 Vision-based racer
Post by: Rich2 on April 29, 2008, 10:15:27 PM
Simple mod but I remember it making a positive improvement.
Title: Re: Newsletter 8 online with info on a 750 Vision-based racer
Post by: kiwibum on April 30, 2008, 01:09:04 AM
Cool thanks for the clarification. That will be fairly easy to implement, I'll look at doing it when I repaint my frame.
Title: Re: Newsletter 8 online with info on a 750 Vision-based racer
Post by: Rich2 on May 24, 2008, 10:19:43 PM
Couple of pics of Eddie's bike

(http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeum9mp/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/IMG_1476r.jpg.w300h169.jpg)


(http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeum9mp/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/IMG_1477r.jpg.w300h173.jpg)
Title: Re: Newsletter 8 online with info on a 750 Vision-based racer
Post by: supervision on May 24, 2008, 10:38:52 PM
 Rich 2 thank you for the pictures!  never seen the bike uncovered, like the exhaust, what a frame, thanks again!
Title: Re: Newsletter 8 online with info on a 750 Vision-based racer
Post by: VisionMeister on May 27, 2008, 01:36:08 PM
I remember seeing this bike at Laguna.
If I remember right the steering head was x-braced between the frame rails. If you see how the frame tubes run to the outside of the forks to the front instrument area; the x-brace tubes fit between the forks.
I didn't have a Vision at that time so I was not aware of how much the engine had been modified. I remember that it seemed to rev so high that it sounded like a big two-stroke.
What especially impressed me that day was a box stock appearing Vision running in the Battle of the Twins. Jimmy Adamo and Gene Church were battling for first on a Ferracci Ducati and "Lucifer's Hammer", The Harley factory entry. Dr. John Wittner's Guzzi was running third followed by another Ducati and then there was a Guzzi being harrassed by the Vision for fifth position.
The big twins were so loud that the Vision seemed completely silent as it kept passing the Guzzi in the twisties and pulling up on the Duc, only to get out drag raced at the start/finish straight and having to do it all over again.
I rember thinking to myself, I've got to get one of those.
Title: Re: Newsletter 8 online with info on a 750 Vision-based racer
Post by: Rich2 on May 30, 2008, 04:04:00 PM
I think I remember some people telling me about that race. Could have been Eddie or Stuart. Now I'm really tugging on the memory strings.

Nice that you brought that memory back.