Riders Of Vision

Went for another fun 60 mile ride today.  Learned some great cornering techniques.  With some more practice, they will become second nature!

Now for the bad:  Another stator fried.  Like clockwork - I get 1,000 miles out of them.  The one before this made it 2500 miles, but I'm considering that an anomaly.   ::)  THIS IS GETTING OLD!!!!

Same failure as all others - no problem checking wire to wire, but wire to engine gives me continuity.  Another winding shorted to ground.

Last time, I was going to switch the flywheels, but didn't want to redo the starter clutch bolts at the time.  Lost the gamble.  Will swap flywheel & R/R with this stator change.

Not a temp issue on mine.  Today was in the upper 50s & my temp gauge never got above 1/2 way up.  All I've got left is faulty R/R or vibration.  Will try to take care of both issues before I put another 'disposable' stator in it.

So much for the CROV trip this fall.

H₂O

If you want/need a stator you can take the one out of my parts bike at kwellz house, just put it back together when you're done :D

dang man that's definitely no good.  seems odd that you dont notice the vibrations

Thanks inanecathode - I'll probably get that stator one of these days.  Need to order a new R/R as well.  Not going used on that item.  I have a stator owed to me as well - I'll have it sent to me instead of my original plan to pick it up in California this weekend.

Sure wish I had a rideable spare bike . . . (anyone heard from Professor Rex lately)

H₂O

Quote from: h2olawyer on September 25, 2007, 08:03:04 PM

Sure wish I had a rideable spare bike . . . (anyone heard from Professor Rex lately)

H₂O

why? did he take off on your TracTor?   ???.................... sorry....   ::)

I haven't kept score, but I assume it doesn't matter if it's new/used/oem/or chinese... 1,000 miles and it's toast?

Have you thought about disconnecting your odometer?......oops 2x sorry....    ::) ::)

in all seriousness, and not to mention I have no support from others on this, try swapping out your starter solenoid... peeps have said "it's an on-off switch, shouldn't matter... etc etc...."

well,  I swear I had a funky one that affected the charging system....  just food for thought... I really hope you get it sorted out

Guess I'll add a new starter solenoid to the list of replacement parts.  Going to get it fixed this time even if I have to build an entire new wiring harness!

I have Tractor, but it became 'unrideable' during the 25 year party.  Need to repair the frame, replace the triple trees, forks, put on a new tank, headlight, gauge set, mirrors, turn signals & also get a stator for it.  I used that stator in  Silver V a month ago or so when the last stator fried.  Rex has the replacement parts I need.  He can add further explanation if he wants to . . .  Also have a line on a titled frame nearby that I may use instead of welding the steering stop back on.  When the steering stop broke off, it took some of the steering neck with it.   ::)  At least the weld was solid!

H₂O

That does suck. :/ It was pricey but I got one from the Yamaha dealership if I remember right and I've gone about 2k on mine so far this summer.  Maybe the extra bit is worth it if they did fix the original issue with OEM ones.

Thinking that after I get it all sorted out, I may look for a nearly new OEM stator on eBay.  Photo should show it with tan colored insulation.  Might spring for the real thing, but at nearly $400, I can get a lot of cheapies. 

Am considering getting both the stator & R/R from RMStator this time.  R/R is beefed up - stator looks like electrosport.  Choose the right one in their buy it now store, and shipping is $2.

The only thing that really sucks about it is that I miss the CROV trip.   :'(  Getting used to frying stators.  Have 4 in the garage now & I sent one back to Tim Parrott.  At least I'm getting proficient in changing stators.   ::)  Last one took about an hour - oil drained to oil filled.  The Cometic gasket is really a time saver!   8)

H₂O

 ??? Thats a bugger, eh!!! Seems odd that you blow them with such regularity... :o You might as well change the flywheel out h20...You have nothing to loose. Another thought...a p.i.t.a. to do...but it may be worth considering changing out your wire harness as you MAY have a short somewhere in the loom ??? its a long shot, BUT...

The one I have in is used, out of a Virago...I think ::).  N_V brought it with him to the OnROV spring ride in May and it is still running strong in "The Mistress" 8) OhOooo, maybe I shouldn't have said/thought/written that...Grem's know you know!!! :o  ;D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D... 8)

                       

I'm planning on beefing up all the wiring related to the charging system.  But, with the regularity of the failures - 5 now - three lasted 1000 miles & one lasted 2500 - I really think it is a vibration issue.  They all failed internally to ground.   The flywheel will be replaced this time - even though it means doing the starter clutch fix again.   ::)

Am rounding up all the parts now & should have it all together next week sometime.  Want to get it done because this is the prime riding season.  Temps in the 60s & 70s, lots of sunny days, lower trafficc volume, just primo riding time in the Rockies.  Snow is always a possibility, but for the next few weeks, it will melt off the roads rapidly and they don't normally use much sand yet.  Surface is still warm enough that the snow melts off the roads as soon as it hits.

H₂O

Quote from: h2olawyer on September 26, 2007, 04:02:26 PM
I'm planning on beefing up all the wiring related to the charging system.  H₂O

As i've been dealing with Ign & to some extent, charging system woes myself lately, i think looking over the wiring diagrams, it won't be as easy as you think.  you can replace with heavier wire, but you can't do much with components themselve, save to clean them.  what you could do though is start replacing connectors. loose connectors & worn wire where they attach to the connector probably adds up to more wire resistance than we realise, but it'll be tedious...

--Lucky

There's always building a complete new wiring harness like blake started to do a while ago.  I think if I get everything immediately related to the charging system replaced, including the flywheel, and I still blow up stators on a rapid basis, the new harness will be a likely project.  I'm still thinking the flywheel may take care of the issue, though.  If it had been just one or two failing so quickly, I would have chalked it up to poor quality of the stator.  However, with so many lasting right at 1,000 miles, it seems to be something quite constant.  I've tried running varying electrical loads - using most of the accessories as often as possible on some of the stators & using as few as possible on others.  Makes no difference on longevity.

From the first time I installed the latest one, the volt gauge would jump between 13 & 14.5 volts for a few minutes after startup.  As the bike warmed, it would charge steadily @ 14.5 +. 

Think I'll unwind one of them to see what happened inside . . .

H₂O

Altitude sickness??? Stators burn out 10x faster at high altitudes??  :o

David

I have too fallen victim to a stator failure.  I was working on one bike doing the starter clutch and took the other out on a nice ride to see the voltage fall from a steady 14.5 to 14 then the next look, 12.1 and slowly dropping as I made best time home. 
    I have a question for all who have had this issue and made measurements of various current draws.  What is the current draw of the bike during normal operation?  Fan running, headlight on RPM's ~4K ? vs Idle state: fan on, brake & headlight on, RPM's 1.3K ish?  I'm wondering how much current the electrical system needs to supply the bike to run vs how much the RR needs to sink to keep things around 14V.

I'd say 'normal' operation should be that the bike charges at 14.5ish but if there is no load on the electrical system, the charging should drop to 12.5ish.  a battery doesn't need 14.5 all the time, this is in fact overcharging. 12.7 is optimal at rest voltage.  all things being equal, if charging system output equals electrical consumption, anything else is just topping off the battery, or overcharging if excessive.

the problem is that when the bike has been crusing, & you come to a stop, the fan comes on, your signal is on, headlight, accessories, etc.  if the voltage then drops low you have problems...

After having looked at the stator and the conditions that seem to be present in their failures it appears that heat is the major contributor to failure.  In order for there to be significant heating there must be significant current flow.  The charging system has a volts per RPM parameter which increases the output voltage with increasing RPMs.  This voltage will cause a current to flow in proportion to the electrical resistance of the loads on the system.  If we want to keep the voltage constant the current must be shunted to ground, the job of the R/R.  I believe the issue with the stator is that at operational RPMs the voltage being produced by the charging system is too high.  As the RPM's and voltage increase more current must be shunted until the the R/R reaches its  maximum capability and burns out, or the stator reaches the critical temperature which melts the insulation and allows it to short.  Better R/R: stator goes, better stator: R/R goes.  The question is does the system really need to charge the battery while the bike is idling, or just supply enough current to keep it from quickly discharging the battery.  I would rather run the bike rather then sit an idle.  If the system can sustain idle operation for 30 minutes I would believe that more the sufficient.  At 30 minutes a 14AH battery should be able to supply 28 Amps, OK less in real life, but the main fuse is only 30 so hopefully the load is much less.  I guess the point I'm trying to make is that there are too many winds on the stator, less would be more appropriate.  Low RPM charging would suffer, but at highter RPMs enough voltage should be available to allow the proper operation and battery charging, with The R/R only coming in to play when the battery is fully charged.

Quote from: firstone on September 26, 2007, 08:57:48 PM
............. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that there are too many winds on the stator, less would be more appropriate.  Low RPM charging would suffer, but at highter RPMs enough voltage should be available to allow the proper operation and battery charging, with The R/R only coming in to play when the battery is fully charged.

yep, that's the thought train I'm riding... look at the aftermarket stators... what do they tout?

"heavy duty / higher output"  ???

thanks, but no thanks..... I presently have a slighty smaller diameter "low voltage" used OEM Virago stator in mine.... looks great after 4,000 miles.... sometimes it shows (on the Kuryakyn LED)  meter that it's barely charging above 12v at idle... sometimes less at idle when a turn signal is on (LED actually flashes from last yellow to first green in opposite sync with the signal light)... above say 2,000 rpm, I show 2 green lights (which translates to like 14.5)

as far as I know, only Tiger and I are running this setup and that's a pretty small sample.... can't say for sure yet that this is "The Cure" for Statoritis.... until a couple of years or klicks down the road  ;) just food for thought 

I'll go along with heat as a possible cause of failure in the stators that actually last 5 or 6 thousand miles.  However, the problem I'm having seems more like they're vibrating through the insulation on an internal post.  That's how every one of mine have failed.  None have shown continuity out of spec between any two of the three wires.  All are between .3 & .4 OHM.  They all failed the ground to engine continuity test.  One had crispy insulation & another melted all the insulation away from the ends of the post legs.  The rest had black insulation, but no crispiness.

At this point, I'd LOVE to get 5K miles out of a stator.   ::)  Save me from replacing them three times a year - like this year!  I could make stator replacement part of the annual spring maintenance program.

H₂O

the thing that's buggin me with the flywheel vibration theory killing your stators is that it seems to me that a flywheel wobble would have to go back through the crank, all the bearings and interconnected bits, not to mention the motor mounts and mild steel frame sucking up some vibes... to get back to the left side case and eventually to the stator....

seems to me you would have noticed that the SilverStreak was a thumper compared to the other V's you've ridden.. no?   

Not talking about a low frequency overall vibration, but a harmonic induced higher frequency one, picked up by the stator.  Actually more of a buzz.  Haven't heard it, but with changes to all other electrical parts, OEM, Electrosport & Rick's brands, three different R/Rs, using connectors, soldering wires, running additional grounds, etc., I feel it has to be something non-electrical in this instance.  Especially since every one has shorted to one of the ground poles.  I'll be unwinding at least two of them to see what I find RE: worn interior insulation.

H₂O

Quote from: h2olawyer on September 26, 2007, 01:19:13 AM
Thinking that after I get it all sorted out, I may look for a nearly new OEM stator on eBay.  Photo should show it with tan colored insulation.  Might spring for the real thing, but at nearly $400, I can get a lot of cheapies.H₂O

$400? :o Think mine was $250-260 if I remember right.  Then again I might be thinking of the R/R I got through the dealership but I'm 90% certain I got my stator there as well and I haven't paid $400 (yet) for any parts.

Looked up a new OEM stator on Bike Bandit, Speed & Sport & PartsFish.  Motogrid had one for $314, but it is on backorder.  All had them for $370 - $390.  When I looked a year ago, they were somewhere in the $200 - $280 range.  Think Yamaha had another 'arbitrary' price hike this year.

Ordered a few new trim type parts to freshen up the V - rubber cable covers, fuel cap, things like that.  They should be here this week.  Prices on those went up a little, but nothing near what I saw with the stators.  Internet price on an 83 type cap was $45, but the local Yamaha stealer listed it @ $54.  The other parts were actually a little less.  Also got a set of new levers.  The new ones are low gloss black instead of the original high gloss.  Just amassing some new parts to install after the new paint this fall / winter.

H₂O

  I feel your pain h2, that said, I agree that these things have to much out-put for the quality of the insulation.  This is a fact, my first stator from Electrto-what ever the hell he called himself,  were decent quality.  my first one from them lasted 10,000 miles, and when it gave up I willingly ordered another one from him, tell them that theirs had lasted about as long as the oem yama , still kind of wondering why about the short life-span, but i'll buy another.   So the thing shows up, and I say to myself, there is no way I'm even putting this thing in my engine. What a POS   So I go to the junkyard and get a Shadow of decent color and put that in.  I figure that I'll just call Electroshit back and return it, their brand new really special, made in Bancock stator that I' had not installed.  Wrong!!!  he says they have No return policy.  I tell him he should take down the picture he has of stators cause they don't look anything like the on he sold me!  He say's, it don't matter what they look like, your stuck with it. I think he deals in JUNK. My shadow is showing age too, it's got 5,000 miles on it, hasn't failed yet ,  I got another beautifull condition shadow stator the other day on ebay for about $ 30 bucks..   Don't get me wrong, I'd still Love to have a system that did'nt ever overheat it'self, I'm just thinking of using this  for another short-term solution  Get alook at a stator that has a big coating, you can tell the difference.   I think the hondas are better looking than the yamas.  that's my story, and I'm stickin to it

As it currently sits, I think I'd go through any stator in about the same time / mileage.  Even though I put a new R/R on when the first one died & I tried two other used ones that checked OK with other stators that also didn't last, they were all OEM type.  Going with the beefed up R/R from RMStator and I'll try one of their stators for now as well.

What year & cc Shadow should I be looking for?  Thinking I'll go pick up a couple, just to have them on hand.

Just discovered an outfit in Denver that rewinds motorcycle stators.  Think I'll send a couple of my burned out hulks to them & see what they can do as well.

Also definitely swapping the flywheel this time.  Just curious if it is something with an odd harmonic vibration or the magnets themselves.

If I can get it up to 5 or 6 thousand miles between stators, I'll be a happy camper.  Not elated, but happy.  10,000 miles will make me elated.

Anyone want a stator gremlin?   ;D

H₂O

It's probably vibration. Theres no way you could have that many bad stators in a row.

I'm sure it's not a quality control problem at this point.  Could be 3 bad R/Rs - one was the original on the bike, one was new from Dennis Kirk (a Rick's that ended up being the same as OEM) and the other was a used OEM unit.  They all checked out within specs.  The original one from the bike is definitely shot.  Don't know what happened to it, but I tried it when I changed stators last time & I got charging power that pegged my volt gauge.  Was working fine when it was removed after the first stator fried.  Just been sitting in a box since then.  It's now in the local landfill.

H₂O

For the sake of data aquisition, before you install your new flywheel, see if you can find a machine shop, engine balancing service, or similar facility that can evaluate each flywheel for balance.  It could be very revealing to know what, if any, differences there are betweeen them.

I'll see what I can find out RE: balance.  However, I may be doing the operation tomorrow (Saturday) and most machine shops won't be open.  I can always compare the one from parts bike with the one I take off at a later date, though.

H₂O

A note about BikeBandit, I've found that they are usually higher than the dealers on cost, and possibly availability.  I'd suggest getting a price from the Bandit, and going to the Parts counter armed with it.  When they highball you there, mention the BBandit price, and they'll usually beat it.  Then, there's no shipping involved, and you don't have to wait if it is in stock.   ;D

With the American Motorcyclist discount, Bike Bandit has reasonable prices.  Still often cheaper to go thru the dealer because of shipping & handling charges.

H₂O

Hmm, never slipped me no discount, did the Bandit.   ???

About this Electro-whatsits?  Is that Electrosport or Electrex we're kvetchin' about?  Electrex is the saviour to all things GS in the Suzuki line.  The OEM electrics were worse than Lucas for a spell.

Speaking of Lucas - a friend of mine had a Lotus Europa for a few years.   ::)

Use your AMA # when you order from Bike Bandit (if ever) and you get a pretty good discount - something like 10 - 20%.  might make it worthwhile on higher ticket items.

Electrex Worldwide is still a good product.  Electrosport (US) has changed in the last couple years.  They were Electrex as well.  The last stator I got from them was wound in China & looked like it.  Very shoddy workmanship.  Probably lead contaminated as well.   ::)

I'm trying something different this time.  Won't say much until I've got it all installed & operational again.  Have been trying to decide exactly what to do, but now have a plan.

H₂O

I guess I have everyone beat. I have over 27k on my original stator. WOW! you say. Well,I have only done  a few significant things to the bike to help this. Adjusted the thermostat to a cooler 165* opening and I don't fart around town. I also soldered the stator wires years ago. But NOW I have relocated the connections to under the seal away from the battery breather. A year ago I did relocate the R/R to a more air flow area under my seat near the helmet lock. Also, just a month or so ago. Put a relay in to have the brown regulator sense wire read the true voltage at the battery. Now the voltage reads 14.25 while zooming . Instead of the 14.8+. This helps keep the battery from boiling the fluid out. This eliminates the resistance induced false reading of the sense wire that is caused by all the connectors including the ignition switch. YES, the ignition switch has resistance. ;D  Also, don't waste your time on electrical parts from Bike Bandit. They sell cheap Chinese Electrosport crap. Plus Bike Bandit has NO PHONE # when things go wrong. Lastly,  H2O if you are burning up stators this fast. You are not finding the cause, it will happen again. :'(

Quote from: jasonm. on October 02, 2007, 09:26:53 PMH2O if you are burning up stators this fast. You are not finding the cause, it will happen again. :'(

No kidding.   ::)

The thermostat has been turned down only a short time.  Only about 300 miles.  The last stator may have suffered because of it.  Also going with a new R/R (again).  Still thinking I've got a harmonic vibration that these stators hate, so the flywheel is getting swapped as well.  That will make for an entire charging system change.

Remaining wiring harness has never been spliced into at any point & never used a scotchlock either.  All connections have been cleaned at least twice in the last three years.  Have tried 3 different (OEM type) R/Rs - all checked out fine, but when I tried one of the previous ones this time, the regulator circuit was shot - it pegged my volt gauge.

Have been running with the R/R ground wire soldered, but using all remaining connectors.  Hate trying to test the system with everything soldered.  Two of the stators fried with soldered connections anyway.

The new R/R is not stock.  Hope RMStator Inc. makes good ones.  The parts will be here by this weekend.

H₂O

After pondering the latest fix, I finally decided to order the stator & R/R from RMStator, Inc.  Competitive pricing & if you look for the deals, cheap shipping - unless you do what I did & go for expedited 1 or 3 day shipping.  Still, the shipping was reasonable enough for me to get it here fast.  Some confusion about 1 or 3 day, but I'll take either one at this point.  I'm missing the best riding weather of the year & I want to ride!

Decided to try a beefier R/R but didn't want to go used.  Also wanted a new stator so I know its history.  Installation will include flywheel swap, extra 12 gauge wire from R/R to battery negative, silver soldered connections and maybe relocation of R/R to rear footpeg mount.

I don't have any battery breather with the sealed, maintenance free battery so I don't think I'll worry about the location of the connections.  The bike lives on a Battery Tender Jr. whenever it's not being ridden so the battery is always fully charged.

Hopefully this complete change of charging system will give me longer stator life!  I can't imagine 27K miles - I'd be thrilled with 5K at this point!

H₂O

I know that my Vision has more than 25K on it, and I believe the PO never had stator&R/R issues.  Truth is, it was probably never run the way that y'all run yours.  I must admit, the longest trip I took Viky on was about 300 miles one way.  Mostly it was run around trips locally and commuting.

BTW, I stand corrected on the tank lining, it was on that ~600 mile trip with her that I learned about the rusty corner syndrome.  I'd stopped to visit a colleague and her family in NY (upstate) and her husband was more of a motonut than I was at the time.  He'd had a friend with a leaky tank on a Vision, so he knew all about the problem, and it was his advice to line the tank with Kreem, which I did upon returning home.  I guess it was so new then that it hadn't exhibited the behavior that plagues y'all now...   ???

I have been seriously considering twist-loc (is that what they are called?) connectors or soldered eye terminals soldered together (a-la-curcit board) instead of direct soldering to ease testing...

I've tried posi-loc connectors.  Easy to use, not sure of conductive quality.  Guess I'll check them with the ohm meter.

H₂O

The more i think of eye terminals (or flat blades, etc,) the more i like the idea:
easy to solder, large contact area, very easy to desolder & resolder..

Might be a silly idea, but have you thought of gluing a weight to the stator to act as mass dampening incase its a harmonic vibration problem?

No weight, but did consider using some neoprene washers as vibration dampers.  If it is harmonics, I'll be changing them with a different flywheel, anyway.  That combined with a new, beefier R/R and all the suggested mods will hopefully give me some longer stator life.

H₂O

One more thing I did from the beginning was to put a MANUAL fan switch in. This allows me to start cooling the engine should I be stuck in traffic. The earlier you start the fan the sooner it bleeds off excess calories when going slow. As you can see by now. I have done many things to keep the engine as cool running as possible. The only thing I have not done is an oil cooler.

Put the manual fan switch in when I installed the full fairing.  Been at least three stators ago.  Before turning down the thermostat, I ran ti almost continuously to keep the temps down.  With it on, the gauge stayed just above 1/2.  With the thermostat adjusted, the gauge stays under 1/2 except in stop & go traffic & slow, tight, uphill twisties - with no fan running.  In traffic, the gauge goes up to 3/4 and on those slow twisties, it gets just above 1/2.  I do turn it on as I enter town - even with the cooler running.

Since I adjusted it, the cooling fan has rarely come on.  Even when parking the bike after a good ride, it stays cool.  Did the adjustment after I already put over 600 or 700 miles on the last stator.  May have already mostly fried it before I started running cooler.

We'll see how long everything lasts now that the entire charging system will be new, the bike is running cooler, there's an extra ground from R/R to battery & the connections are highly conductive.

H₂O

Well, the stator & R/R didn't arrive Friday.   >:(  According to the package tracking, they should be here Monday.  So much for spending lots extra on shipping!   ::)  Spent more than 24 hours in Louisville, KY.  That delay made it impossible to get them here Friday.

My plans are to swap the flywheel, (including the starter clutch bolt fix on spare flywheel), solder the stator to R/R wires using solder with a good silver content for better connectivity.  Then to protect the connection, I'll be using those cool connectors Tiger recommends - the ones made from shrink tubing that have a low-temp solder ring in the middle.  May even put some hot glue inside the shrink tubing, just to seal them even better.

Then, I'll be making sure the ground wire from the R/R is well connected to both the wiring harness and well connected to the auxilliary ground wire running directly to the battery negative.  Will also clean up the main frame ground (again).  Hopefully, this will kill the fried stator gremlin!  Some new oil and a filter & I should be ready to ride either Monday evening or Tuesday morning.

H₂O

When you get one unwound , look at the  posts and see if the have any kind of  plastic( shrink tubing) or fiberglass  tube  to protect the  windings from the sharp edge  of the post . Let us know what you see.  In you case it sounds like its  cutting through the insulation .  But why on so many stators.  By the way I still using the same used Kawasaki 1100,  RR I put in in 2003. It has a larger heat sink and its mounted out in the breeze .

That's why I've been thinking I have a harmonic vibration in my stators & why I'm swapping flywheels.  I'm in no hurry to unwind one of the stators, but will git 'er done in the next few weeks.  I will post what I find.  I may do both an OEM & an aftermarket to see who has the better foundation.

The stator & R/R I ordered are from RMStator in Canada.  The R/R is beefier & has a larger heat sink.  Not sure if I'll mount it out in the breeze until I take the bodywork in for new paint this winter.  Weather is cooling off quickly & I won't get more than a few hundred more miles in before the snow flies.  Will be a good time to fab a mount.

Have an 83 tank to paint & will have the fairing & remaining plastics done while I'm at it.  Might as well have it all look like new for next year.  Since I'm going with the original (and fastest  :D ) Star Silver, I'm letting the pros handle it.  Silver is difficult to get right.

H₂O

Quote from: h2olawyer on October 08, 2007, 12:08:43 AM
solder the stator to R/R wires using solder with a good silver content for better connectivity.  Then to protect the connection, I'll be using those cool connectors Tiger recommends - the ones made from shrink tubing that have a low-temp solder ring in the middle.  May even put some hot glue inside the shrink tubing, just to seal them even better.
H₂O

h2o...Re those "cool connectors Tiger recommends"...you do not have to presolder the join or use hot glue, its already in there 8)

Bare the wire's by 1/4", slip the wire's into the butt conn, apply heat to each end of the butt conn, in turn, to reduce the heat shrink and then apply the heat to the solder ring...viola!!!
 
The heat shrink interior is coated with an adhesive that adhere's to the wire's, which prevent's any wire slip during the installation process and eliminate's any moisture penetration. The solder ring is a "low heat" type. Once applied, they have a tensile strength of 2200 PSI, dielecric strength of 1000 volts/MIL, are non-corrosive and non-nutrient.

:) I hope this help's... ;)

                   

I experimented with one Saturday.  Used the procedure you outlined above.  Worked great!

I am presoldering with a solder that has some silver content - it is the best conductive solder available.  Recommended by a local electrics guru.  I decided on my own to use the solder connector.  I know it is not necessary to presolder, but, I want to make sure I have the highest conductivity available this time.  Don't want to fry another stator in 1000 miles!  Figure using suspenders & a belt in this case is appropriate.

Didn't know the glue was inside.  That makes them even cooler!  The one I did Saturday is certainly solid.  Pulled on it pretty hard & the connection didn't move at all.  Put at least 40 pounds of force on it!   8)

Thanks for confirming the installation procedure, Tiger!

H₂O

Stator & R/R arrived just before lunch.  On first examination, the stator appears to be the same one Electrosport sells.  White wire insulation appears to be of Chinese origin.   ::)  Not really pleased about that.  I'll install it & hope for the best.  At least they give a 1 year warranty.

The R/R, on the other hand looks great!  Not sure of it's place of origin, but the red & black wires are much heavier than the OEM wires.  Also lighter weight heat sink - appears like it will dissipate heat more effectively than the OEM type.  The fins have more surface area & are spaced farther apart than the OEM unit.

Well, off to get supplies - screws, bolts, solder & oil.  Then comes the parts swapping / changing.  Should be finished sometime late this afternoon or early evening.

H₂O

EDIT:

After looking at Electrosport's site & RMStator's invoice, the part numbers for the stator & R/R are remarkably similar.  Looks like they just resell Electrosport parts.  However, their prices - at least on the ones I got - are better, even with shipping included.

H₂O

Quote from: h2olawyer on October 08, 2007, 01:42:45 PM
Thanks for confirming the installation procedure, Tiger!

H₂O

:) Your welcome h...I also understand where your coming from using suspenders & a belt approach... :D :D :D... 8) better safe than sorry, eh!!!

                       

Well, stator is installed & cover is back on the bike.  However, my 8 foot flourescent lights just crapped out.   ::)  Replaced the bulbs, but it's still pretty dark - wonder if the ballast went out, too.  Oh well, guess I'll get the 500 watt halogens out & really light up the work zone.   ;D

Decided against swapping the flywheel for now.  Since the stator has a 1 year warranty, I'll give this a try with ALL the rest swapped out.  The new, beefier R/R may do the trick, along with the additional ground.  If this one dies in 1000 miles or so, then I'll do the flywheel swap.  Figure I'll do things a step at a time, until I discover the cause.  My vibration harmonic theory still makes sense, but I'll do the flywheel next summer - if necessary.  Probably won't get more than 400 - 500 miles on it this fall.

This stator fit a little looser on the case cover.  Tightened down solid, though.  Used new loctite blue & impact driver to tighten the screws.  They're still in good shape.  The stator has no wiggle to it now.

The directions that came with this stator said to cut the wires & pull them through the grommets - like I did the last one.  Sure makes it easier not having to clean up the grommets.  Just added a db of Titebond 1104 to each wire before finishing the pull through the grommet.  Worked well last time & those wires were cloth covered.  The new ones aren't.

Well, back to the salt mines . . .

H₂O

i give it 900 miles :D
anyone else want in?

Quote from: h2olawyer on September 25, 2007, 11:25:22 PM
Guess I'll add a new starter solenoid to the list of replacement parts.  Going to get it fixed this time even if I have to build an entire new wiring harness!

Quote from: h2olawyer on September 25, 2007, 07:35:43 PM
I was going to switch the flywheels, but didn't want to redo the starter clutch bolts at the time.  Lost the gamble.  Will swap flywheel & R/R with this stator change.

Quote from: h2olawyer on September 26, 2007, 04:02:26 PM
I really think it is a vibration issue.  They all failed internally to ground.   The flywheel will be replaced this time - even though it means doing the starter clutch fix again.   ::)

Quote from: h2olawyer on October 08, 2007, 10:21:26 PM
Decided against swapping the flywheel for now.  Since the stator has a 1 year warranty, I'll give this a try with ALL the rest swapped out. 

2 out of 3 H₂O's say swap out the flywheel... one NV said try a new stater solenoid too  ;)
what do you have to lose?

at this point, do you really care what the problem is?  quit supporting the Chinese economy! (oops sorry again.... just trying to say.....)  GIVE IT YOUR BEST SHOT     

The last two had no warranty.  This one does, so I'll give it a shot with the silver solder, shrink / solder connectors, new beefier R/R, added ground wire & cooler running (adjusted thermostat).  If this one fries, I'll have a spare on hand & can send this one back to RM for replacement.  Then I'll do the flywheel.  Want to make sure of the cause before I go to the trouble of pulling two flywheels & doing another starter clutch bolt fix.

If I'm wrong, so be it.  At least then I'll be have more ammo for my vibration theory.

When I removed the latest stator, the insulation was crispy.  Something not seen in the last couple.  I still need to clean the main ground (again) and replace the now faulty neutral switch.  ::)

Charging @ 14.75V - idle.  Same at 4,000 RPM.  Drops to 12.83V with high beam, aux lights, cooling fan, turn signal & brake light on at idle.  The aux lights take most of the power.  It rises to 13.42V with all the stuff on @ 4,000 RPM.  Checked with both the volt gauge & a digital volt meter.  The two are in very close agreement.  We'll see how long this one lasts . . .

H₂O

Looks like the R/R is doing a proper job, so we'll keep fingers crossed furya.  I'm with you on the flywheel, changing too much at one time clouds the testing environ...unless you follow Murphy's corollary:  Everything goes wrong all at once!

Bouncing around thru forums, I come across: "The Stator Papers", seems that the Suzuki GS series has had it's day with charging systems like the Vision.  Come to think of it, the stator's what I changed out first thing on MY GS750...
Got a link to "why stators fail"...

http://www.thegsresources.com/garage/gs_statorfail.htm

You may have the same thing over here, but I didn't find it as easily as I did the GS forum...   :)

Also, H2O (Robert, may I call you "Robert"?):    :)

http://www.thegsresources.com/garage/gs_statorrewind.htm

Should provide good info if you rewind any of your stators...

About GS Resources, there were many, many more models built over many, many years compared to the XZ550, so naturally it gets muddy sometimes.  Truth is, tho', what applies to one GS is applicable to all, is one of the reasons the GS line lasted as long in manufacture, and has lasted as long on the streets.  The GS850G is known as the WMPM, or World's Most Perfect Motorcycle.  They rank with the old BMW's in terms of longevity and reliability.  And, they are really what my sig relates to...  Take care of them, they'll be with you the rest of your life.

I prefer H2O on the forum - mainly for continuity's sake.  Robert is fine for PM & email, etc.

I will NOT - repeat - NOT be rewinding any stator.  Too much of a PITA.  I will be unwinding one or two of my fried ones as part of failure analysis.  There is a place in Denver that rewinds stators.  If I can find them again (lost the link  ::) ).  I want to go see them in person & have some custom wound stators made.  These stators will make a bit less power than the OEM units (fewer windings per leg).  Maybe then, they won't put so much stress on the R/R and there will be less need to dump as much excess power to ground.  That may keep the stator from heating up too much.  Might be worth a try.

H₂O

Check yer PM's, H2O.  Third phase is called into question on the stators...

Got it, thanks.   ;D

H₂O

GS Resources is linked on the home page
(may have been moved to the 'links' page durring one of the reincarnations of this site) I believe it was one of the first links Ron put up, & was also the inspiration for my site (hence the name)

--Lucky

Quote from: Lucky on October 11, 2007, 10:10:09 PM
GS Resources is linked on the home page

--Lucky

It's in the Links.  But, I wonder why this is so.  The GS HAS suffered similar woes in the times prior to the XZ being on the market.

We were new, they were well established. at the beginning they were a good starting place for us.  Still good info, but we have grown far beyond the need to lean on their site.  at the end of the first incarnation of this site we had only a dozen members...