Riders Of Vision

General => TechTalk => Topic started by: worldrider555 on November 10, 2007, 10:53:34 PM

Title: My just purchased bike wont start HELP PLEASE
Post by: worldrider555 on November 10, 2007, 10:53:34 PM
So i just bought a perfect 1982 vision.  It is in showroom condition, carbs have all been professionally cleaned.  Tank has been professionally covered in the inside with the no rust stuff(dont know what its called epoxy?)  anyway i bought it Last Saturday and it started right up and ran perfect.  The only thing was the battery was low.  So next day i go to start it and it wont.  It cranks fine, but wont start.  It backfired once or twice.  It has gas and petcock is in right position.  So i went and bought a new battery and still no luck.  Bike was in nuetral each time i tried to start it.  Is there anything that I should check first.  Thanks for all your help.  PS. Does side stand need to be up to start even when its in neutral?
Title: Re: My just purchased bike wont start HELP PLEASE
Post by: YellowJacket! on November 10, 2007, 11:05:03 PM
Hi worldrider.

Make sure the battery is fully charged.  If you bought a new battery, chances are it is not fully charged and Visions like voltage and amps.  Mine wont even start if it drops below 11 volts.
One trick we have all learned (among many) is twist the throttle three times and set the choke to half choke and crank.  You can also twist the throttle a few times while cranking.  Don't crank for a long period of time either.  Also, make sure your high beam is off.

Welcome to ROV!

David
Title: Re: My just purchased bike wont start HELP PLEASE
Post by: YellowJacket! on November 10, 2007, 11:05:55 PM
Hey, where are you located too?
Did you buy the "showroom" red one?

David
Title: Re: My just purchased bike wont start HELP PLEASE
Post by: worldrider555 on November 10, 2007, 11:11:43 PM
i bought it from battery warehouse and the guy said it was full and charged and ready to go.  Im in Quakertown Pa, bout an hour out of philly.   I Have the bluish gray metallic color.  Ill try that trick tommorow.  BTW how do u get the sparkplugs out.  None of my sockets will fit in the hole.
Title: Re: My just purchased bike wont start HELP PLEASE
Post by: h2olawyer on November 10, 2007, 11:22:24 PM
If you got the OEM toolkit with the bike, it has the best spark plug socket.  Otherwise, go get one of those pressed metal ones for lawnmowers from your local hardware (ACE) store.  If you can find one with wrench flats on both ends, it will work best.

As for the starting - make sure there is fuel flowing to the bowls.  There are carb drain screws on the sides of the carbs.  Loosen them & look for fuel coming out the bottom of the bike.  Even though the carbs may have been professionally cleaned, they could still be gummed up.  Also, the tank liner could be interfering with the fuel flow.  If it doesn't already have one, install an inline fuel filter - even with the greshly lined tank.

Like DaveTN said, a fully charged battery is important to get a V started.  Each one has its own starting procedure from leaving the throttle alone to constant twisting.  If it's been a couple days since it ran, you need to turn the petcock to PRI for 30 seconds to a minute.  That will allow the float bowls to fill.

Good luck with your new acquisition & welcome to the forum!

H2O
Title: Re: My just purchased bike wont start HELP PLEASE
Post by: QBS on November 10, 2007, 11:23:43 PM
The back firing is a symptom of a low charged battery.  Charge your battery yourself to be sure it is indeed fully charged.  Vs' absolutely demand very well charged batteries.

The factory tool kit has the best tool for getting out the front plug.  The rear plug comes out easily with the usual spark plug socket setup.  I don't remember the mm size.

It doesn't matter if your head light is on high beam or not when starting as the lighting circuit is deactivated when cranking.
Title: Re: My just purchased bike wont start HELP PLEASE
Post by: worldrider555 on November 10, 2007, 11:30:19 PM
how do u set the petcock to pri.  Also it already has an inline filter, and the tank coating has been on for a few years and is good. 
Title: Re: My just purchased bike wont start HELP PLEASE
Post by: h2olawyer on November 11, 2007, 12:02:36 AM
The petcock should have a tab on it.  It turns so the arrow points to various settings.  There are three positions - ON. PRI & RES.  When it is set to ON, the fuel flows with the bike running.  It requires a source of vacuum to function properly.  PRI is prime.  Allows the free flow of fuel.  RES is reserve.  When the bike runs low on fuel, the level drops below the port for ON & the RES port is still below the top of the fuel level.  RES also requires vacuum & gives you at least 20 miles of riding before you run out of fuel.

Good news on the filter & liner.   8)

H2O
Title: Re: My just purchased bike wont start HELP PLEASE
Post by: QBS on November 11, 2007, 12:06:49 AM
On the fuel petcock control valve are written: "Res", "Prime", and "On".

Select "Prime" for non vacume controled fuel flow(fuel will flow without the engine running...IF there is a minimum of about 1.5 gallons or more of fuel remaining in the tank.

Select "ON" for vacume controled fuel flow(fuel will only flow when engine vacume is present).

Select "Res" when tank fuel level has dropped below the main tank level(this flow is also vacume controled).
Title: Re: My just purchased bike wont start HELP PLEASE
Post by: Tanno on November 11, 2007, 12:19:53 AM
If the kickstand is down, the starter is deactivated until the bike is in neutral or kickstand is up. BUT, if the bike is in gear, the clutch also will deactivate the starter until it's pulled or the bike is in neutral.

I know these aren't your issue, but I was just answering your question.

What everyone else has stated so far is true. Check those and let us know.
Title: Re: My just purchased bike wont start HELP PLEASE
Post by: pullshocks on November 11, 2007, 12:41:47 AM
When I first got mine it wouldn't start either.  One thing I found helpful when I had to do a lot of cranking, was to hook up jumper cables to my truck battery (truck engine off).  You don't drain out the motorcycle battery as fast.

Getting the battery properly charged up made a big difference.  With a new battery the electrolyte level should be correct, but take a look, and top up if necessary.

When your carbs were professionally cleaned, were they completely dismantled and dunk cleaned?  That's the other thing that made a big difference.

The 1/2 choke and twist&release the throttle before cranking seems to be an effective starting routine.

Good luck.  I can sympathize, it took me over a month and a half to get mine going.
Title: Re: My just purchased bike wont start HELP PLEASE
Post by: Rick G on November 11, 2007, 01:15:49 AM
I don't have the factory spark plug tool , I bought an 18mm spark plug socket and turned the last inch down about 1/6 of an inch so it would fit in there . Actually you could do it on a belt sander too , just wouldnt look as pretty.
Title: Re: My just purchased bike wont start HELP PLEASE
Post by: Tanno on November 11, 2007, 04:01:09 AM
My Snap-on deep socket worked just fine.  ;D
Title: Re: My just purchased bike wont start HELP PLEASE
Post by: Lucky on November 11, 2007, 08:16:29 AM
If the kickstand is down, the starter is deactivated until the bike is in neutral or kickstand is up. BUT, if the bike is in gear, the clutch also will deactivate the starter until it's pulled or the bike is in neutral.

I know these aren't your issue, but I was just answering your question.

What everyone else has stated so far is true. Check those and let us know.
Thesr bikes have two 'issues' that can cause poor starting & running, both are easily fixed:
 at the TCI (black box under the right side cover, next to the coolant bottle) there are two connectors. 

find the connector in the TCI with 6 wires.

one is black with a white stripe. this is the starting curcit cut off relay.  CLIP OR DISCONNECT THIS WIRE.  a bad relay can cause hard/erratic/slow/no starting.  it is very common & easily fixed.

the other is a yellow wire with a black stripe. this is the rev limiter wire.  the rev limiter will also eventually freak out & kill a cylinder.  clip/disconnect this wire too, or unscrew it inside the tach.

on both, tape up the ends

both the above wires are in the #2 position (in the middle of the connector)

really, try this, it'll work..

--Lucky
Title: Re: My just purchased bike wont start HELP PLEASE
Post by: YellowJacket! on November 11, 2007, 08:42:06 AM
.... Im in Quakertown Pa, bout an hour out of philly.   

Heh...   I went to Valley Forge Military Academy in Wayne back in the early 80's.  Great school and nice area.  I had some friends there from Quakertown too.  ;D

David
Title: Re: My just purchased bike wont start HELP PLEASE
Post by: Rick G on November 11, 2007, 06:07:48 PM
Hi Tanno , I guess Snap on is too rich for my blood , always was.  I used a socket that I already had . I've run into several other bikes with the same lack of clearence  problem( can't remember any specificly right now) , so I made a second socket to keep at work .
Title: Re: My just purchased bike wont start HELP PLEASE
Post by: YellowJacket! on November 11, 2007, 06:33:37 PM

It doesn't matter if your head light is on high beam or not when starting as the lighting circuit is deactivated when cranking.

actually though it was for more of the "between cranking" time than while cranking.  The lights are on then.  I was just trying to conserve as much juice as I could.  ;D

David
Title: Re: My just purchased bike wont start HELP PLEASE
Post by: worldrider555 on November 26, 2007, 05:33:47 PM
UPDATE- Finally got around to diagnosing some things. 
1. I have spark
2. All of the safeties work fine.
3. I still cant find a socket that works for the sparkplugs- Any suggestions

thanks
Title: Re: My just purchased bike wont start HELP PLEASE
Post by: QBS on November 26, 2007, 06:05:06 PM
Spark plug socket in the factory tool kit works well.
Title: Re: My just purchased bike wont start HELP PLEASE
Post by: worldrider555 on November 26, 2007, 06:11:41 PM
I just got a spark plug socket i found that works.  It was the standard tool kit for my other bike.  The plugs look shot, im gonna pick up some new ones tommorow and well see if the beast lives
Title: Re: My just purchased bike wont start HELP PLEASE
Post by: don_vanecek on November 28, 2007, 06:06:08 PM
Gosh, it now sounds like your not getting fuel. Be sure your tank has enough fresh fuel, put fuel selector on prime.  Perhaps open the bleeder scews on the carb and let alittle gas run out the overflow tubes (outside!-no smoking!). Sometimes I have had to presserize the tank by, I said it, sealing it with my mouth and putting pressure in it.

If all else fails another way to eliminate if it is gas is to take off the tank so you can put small amounts of gas directly into the carbs and see it it will run-all but just for a second or two.

Rather frustrating since it ran when you bought it!
Title: Re: My just purchased bike wont start HELP PLEASE
Post by: worldrider555 on November 28, 2007, 08:44:02 PM
Well i figured it out, just needed new spark plugs.  Put some new ngk's in and she fired right up.  I just have never seen plugs die like that.  How do both plugs go bad at the same time?
Title: Re: My just purchased bike wont start HELP PLEASE
Post by: Lucky on November 28, 2007, 08:46:56 PM
the weakest link fails first.  cheap insurance: cut 3/8" off both ends of both plug wires and replace the plug caps & boots.  if you can find a shop that sells solid core wire in bulk, pick up a few feet & replace the wires as well.
Title: Re: My just purchased bike wont start HELP PLEASE
Post by: h2olawyer on November 28, 2007, 09:14:11 PM
Well i figured it out, just needed new spark plugs.  Put some new ngk's in and she fired right up.  I just have never seen plugs die like that.  How do both plugs go bad at the same time?

Happened to inanecathode last spring as well.  Agreed - goofy thing happening.  Another instance that proves Tiger right - change the plugs & wires as part of your initial list of pre-run projects!

H2O
Title: Re: My just purchased bike wont start HELP PLEASE
Post by: Tiger on November 28, 2007, 09:23:02 PM
 
8) Praise be...another convert :o ;D ;D :D :D :D :D :D :D... ;)

 :) NEW Spark plug's, Plug wire's and Plug cap's are a must buy when you acquire a Vision...running or not!!!

               
8).......TIGER....... 8)
Title: Re: My just purchased bike wont start HELP PLEASE
Post by: Night Vision on November 28, 2007, 09:24:23 PM
yeah man! and don't use the resistor type plugs if you have resistor type caps
Title: Re: My just purchased bike wont start HELP PLEASE
Post by: worldrider555 on November 28, 2007, 09:36:20 PM
whats resistor type plugs.  I got plugs with the threads on the top part where the cap goes in, thats what was on there when i got it.  Bike runs great now, starts with no choke and idles perfect
Title: Re: My just purchased bike wont start HELP PLEASE
Post by: Night Vision on November 28, 2007, 09:54:35 PM
the plug will have an "R" in the part number like (NGK) DR8EA as opposed to D8EA
Title: Re: My just purchased bike wont start HELP PLEASE
Post by: worldrider555 on November 28, 2007, 10:02:06 PM
i got the d8ea not the r's
Title: Re: My just purchased bike wont start HELP PLEASE
Post by: steve on December 02, 2007, 05:40:06 PM
Hey, I ride my V daily or did until I had a week's vacation and went out of town and there the bike stood.  Then I tried to start it on a 25 degree cold morning and it just wouldn't start.  I always have trouble on very cold mornings and so does the bike!  Anyway it turned out that the rear spark plug was well worn and the front one was totally worn out.  I replaced them and it runs great!  Of course, now its raining all this week.  Steve
Title: Re: My just purchased bike wont start HELP PLEASE
Post by: Rick G on December 03, 2007, 12:42:38 AM
I've never tried to start a Vision at 25 deg.  at that temp there's bound to be ice on the road  . Probably black ice at that.  I don't ride below 38. deg  I ::) don't like falling down!