Rode it to work this a.m. in the rain (don't think that has any thing to do with it) it was fine.. i have noticed that it seemed to want to cut out once once or twice the last couple couple of days, but haven't yet checked it out.
tonight at work i went to move it from the back lot to the front lot so we could lock the gates, I turned the key, it gave a metalic clunk (like low battery kickback only shorter & a little quieter) & then nothing! just the relay would click once for each push of the button.
--the voltmeter would dive for 8V (the lowest it reads)
--i tapped the starter, no help (but i can feel the starter pesumably taking up the few hundreths of freeplay in the gear when i hit the button)
--a jump made no difference, jumping to the starter only made sparks
--i pulled the plate off the left side & can turn the engine counter clockwise, not clockwise.
--it's very hard to push in gear, no way to push start it on flat ground
tomorrow a.m. my son & i will grab the trailer & bring it home.
i'll pull the starter first & see if it turns, i'll double check battery condition first though..
if not i have a spare in unknown condition, freshly turned armeture Jason Morris gave me years ago i haven't needed, & some spare spring seals. i have no idea if the unknown starter has good brushes, i have no spares.
if the starter turns i guess i'll have to pull the side case (Damn!) I suspect the starter clutch overall anyway...
so i'll either be robbing parts off Cafe vision or begging them here..
--Lucky
Sounds like you're seized man. Hows your oil filter look?
I'd say starter / starter clutch. It will rotate backwards so it's not siezed - there's something else going on.
I'm about to rebuild 2 starters myself. Silver V had the starter go last fall so I robbed the one out of Trator. I put the brush plate from Tractor into Silver V's starter - the brushes are about shot in that one, too. ::) Need to order two kits and get it done by the end of May.
H2O
not siezed, i can turn the crank.
Doesnt have to be totally seized :O
Guess the starter clutch is easier to check :)
Just would make me worried that you cant push it at all on flat ground.
i can push it, it's just hard (plus i was on dusty smooth concrete with road boots & a lazy helper to push.) it does feel 'tight' though..
Making any odd noises when you push it in top gear?
i didn't try, i had a store full of employees & customers to take care of...
My moneys in on partially seized crank/pistons.
Based on my experience with blowing up Vision engines, pistons don't readily seize, spun bearing , maybe , but that usually happens when the engine is running and its not all of a sudden , You get enough warning so that you can think "oh. shit" and continue for a short distance to pull over.
I'm betting on some failure in the starter clutch, because of the one way rotation. The stiff pushing could be from the same source.
Oh Crap.
Just got home and read your post.
Speechless...
David
Quote from: Rick G on May 03, 2008, 10:54:23 PM
Based on my experience with blowing up Vision engines, pistons don't readily seize, spun bearing , maybe , but that usually happens when the engine is running and its not all of a sudden , You get enough warning so that you can think "oh. shit" and continue for a short distance to pull over.
I'm betting on some failure in the starter clutch, because of the one way rotation. The stiff pushing could be from the same source.
Popped out spring or bolt?
David
see what happens when you don't name your Vision :o
I hope it's just the starter clutch jammin up the works
The over running clutch body is cast and I've seen them cracked and the rollers jammed.
inanecathode your just a puddle of joy...
whatever it is, i'll know tomorrow & just fix it...
ok this makes me worried. if lucky is having problems with his vision what does it say about the fate of the rest of ours. i conseder lucky as the vision guru. this will just prove that even the best of visionaries have to do work on there bikes too. the only problem will be if he cant get his running again. then were all in trouble.
sounds to me like you've got a problem in your starter or starter clutch. if the motor will push in gear then its not an intrernal problem, like a busted rod or somthing. if the motor was patically siezed then it would only turn over so far and then stop. and with it turning eaiser backwards leads me to go for the starter clutch. its job is to grab in one direction and not the other. so if its broke in the right spot then it could cause the engine to bind up in one direction and not the other.
Quote from: ps2 on May 03, 2008, 11:58:35 PM
ok this makes me worried. if lucky is having problems with his vision what does it say about the fate of the rest of ours.
If you guys truly knew how lazy i am with my mainenence....
(or is it just a lack of time?)
Quote from: Lucky on May 04, 2008, 12:01:42 AM
Quote from: ps2 on May 03, 2008, 11:58:35 PM
ok this makes me worried. if lucky is having problems with his vision what does it say about the fate of the rest of ours.
If you guys truly knew how lazy i am with my mainenence....
(or is it just a lack of time?)
so the reason for your screen name finally comes to light.
Everyone can have problems, I've set the record for spun rod bearings! >:( >:(
i know thats right. i just pissed the grimlins off in my garage again. bet the new truck in the yard will be infected too. guess i should of just read the post and kept my fingers off the keys. ;D
Lucky, when you turned your crank with the left side cover off was the starter gear in place? (the one that drops out half the time when the left case is taken off)
If it wasn't there then the starter clutch should have nothing to do with your problems right?
Tben , so far lucky has only removed the small plate in the middle of the left cover. It provides access to turn the motor for valve adjustments.
::) oops. should have read more carefully.
It's my fault, I had just been thinking how many running Visions there are compared to 5 yrs ago when I first joined the forum!
The starter is fucked! yippee!
brought it home,
rejumped the bike, then to the starter, same results.
drained the oil, pulled the starter...
Locked solid!! YAAAYYY!!!!!
I have replacements.
I think she's getting a well deserved bath & polish later :D :D :D
Awesome, Lucky. I think the most despair I've ever felt was when my bike wouldn't turn over. Glad your bike'll be back on the road again. That single "click" and then nothing just about took the fight right out of me back then.
So what's the maintenance tip for rookies like me to keep their starters from being hosed?
Viva la Vision!
Ed--
Quote from: Lucky on May 04, 2008, 11:51:43 AM
The starter is fucked! yippee!
::) As in broken/bust/siezed etc... :-[ :-[
ya.... no need for the FBomb oops... remember? that's what sets us above the rest of the forums
I know...
you just got excited... we are all for you ;)
sometimes a blue word is necessary to properly describe the situation. I'm not shy about using them either, I'm married with children (I am Al Bundy...
Anyway, i think that since i had some poor excuses for body seals in there, there was a little rust & crud inside, plus lots of carbon crud from the brushes. the armeture was stuck to the magnets, & the bushing that is on the end of the splined shaft (drive end) kinda fell out. i think it's not supposed to do that...
anyway, she's fixed, & seems easier to start.
this starter may even be rebuildable. I rebuilt Leathers starter & used that (great, one freshly painted part on an otherwise unremarkable appearing engine!!)
i think i have more members parts on my bike than original ones, lol!
--Lucky
Now , lucky ,do you kiss your children with that mouth??? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I'm certainly glad that your problem is solved!! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Regarding starter body seals: would liquid electrical tape painted around the seal area, in addition to the factory rubber, do the job?
That's great news, Lucky. Don't even have to remove the Stator cover. Glad it was something you could cure quickly!
H2O
Quote from: Lucky on May 04, 2008, 03:21:40 PM
i think that since i had some poor excuses for body seals in there, there was a little rust & crud inside, plus lots of carbon crud from the brushes. the armeture was stuck to the magnets, & the bushing that is on the end of the splined shaft (drive end) kinda fell out. i think it's not supposed to do that...
anyway, she's fixed, & seems easier to start.
guess you can add those to the statistics of why some bikes start harder than others :)
I had that in mind when i loaded it up on the trailer this morning..
you can be Al Bundy if you want,, but please, dont stick hand in front of pants while riding,, it may cause trouble with steering .
Lucky, I think is because your bike quit working that the site went down. ;D ;D ;D
David