Greetings,
I'm new here. I'm signing on because I recently hauled an '82 XZ550 home from the barn it'd been left in for a decade or so. My plan is to dismantle and restore it as a decent rider. I'll have a million questions, I'm sure, and I hope I don't become too much of a pest.
About me: I'm 65, live in the Rochester, NY area, and have been riding for about 40+ years. I've always, until now, owned Hondas.
Regards,
FC
Welcome! You've found the best group of folks I've ever been associated with.
Lucky has a CD with manuals, tips, tricks and tons of info. I highly recommend it!
I know there's lots of posts, but reading through as much of the forum posts as you can will provide a very good education of all things Vision. We've got just about every answer to nearly every question about any part, system, procedure, tool or whatever you need. Don't be afraid to ask - we all love to hear stories about Visions rescued from years of neglect. 8)
H2O
welcome aboard.... I'm near Syracuse... look out around 10:30am tomorrow and maybe you'll see me and Joe riding past going up to Tiger's... if you need parts... PM Tiger and we'll bring them home for ya :D
:) Hi and welcome to the best place a Vision can bring its owner :o ;D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
We are all here to help each other get the very best out of our Vision's 8) You got question's...we got answer's 8) Need to know, just ask... ;)
I have three road worthy Vision's in my garage!! but none were when I got them... ::)
You need time, patience and a wee few $$$ to put back some of the good that has gone from your Vision...
8).......TIGER....... 8)
Welcome to ROV!
I'm glad your here! friends don't let friends ride Honda's ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
don't dismantle the engine, unless your very sure that it has to be done. Usually a carb overhaul and some remedial work in the left engine cover will go along way. Do get lucky's CD.
Quote from: Rick G on May 15, 2008, 08:17:46 PM
...Do get licky's CD.
:o I think he means
LUCKY's CD/DVD
OOOOps sorry about that . I have large hands and the i and u key are right next to each other, some times I hit both. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Rick G on May 15, 2008, 08:17:46 PM
...... friends don't let friends ride Honda's ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
good one Ricky ;)
Quote from: Rick G on May 15, 2008, 08:17:46 PM
I'm glad your here! friends don't let friends ride Honda's ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
don't dismantle the engine, unless your very sure that it has to be done. Usually a carb overhaul and some remedial work in the left engine cover will go along way. Do get lucky's CD.
I did get the motor to light up after cleaning the corroded ends of the plug wires. I didn't hear any knocks or see any smoke, so I'm not inclined to tear into the engine beyond pulling the heads to touch up the valves and put new stem seals and replace any other age-hardened rubber parts. I bought a set of 1983 carbs from ebay. Can these be used in place of the stock 1982 carbs? Anything to be gained from doing this?
As for Lucky's CD, that's high on my list of things to do.
Thanks to everyone for the warm welcome.
FC
83 carbs have a fuel return system that's not on the 82s. You will need to make a modification to the 82 tank (an inlet above the top fuel level) or find an 83 tank & petcock to use the carbs. Plus, you need to modify the lower half of the 82 airbox (or find an 83) and the rear upper engine mount must be modified as well.
If the carbs you bought on ebay were the ones recently sold there, you likely have another set of 82s. The seller had a bunch of parts misdescribed as for an 83. While many of the parts are either the same or easily adaptable, the carbs take the most work to install on an 82.
Rick_G often states that the 83 carbs were changed for a problem that didn't exist. That is mostly true when dealing with "Vision Stumble". The one improvement is the fuel return system. It keeps cooler fuel running through the carbs & helps with the vapor lock issue that crops up on rare occasions. I have experienced it when riding in hot weather in stop & go traffic.
I'm in the process of doing the 83 carb swap. I found all the associated 83 parts including the fuel tank, petcock & gauges. The 83 has a fuel gauge. 8) The 83 carbs and associated parts are hard to find - like most 83 only parts. I spent several years debating whether or not to make the change. Well cleaned, tuned & synched 82 carbs work fine. I've had my V at elevations from around 1,000ft. to over 14,000ft. Other than the vapor lock issue I described above, I get the Vision Stumble once in a while & then only when the engine is hot, on a hot day.
H2O
Shop Rat, just don't pull the cylinders , with the idea of reringing it as rings are not available { although I know of a machine shop that can get them specially made) . The original rings are very hardy and last very well. Also buy the head gaskets befor you tear it down. They have been out of stock acouple of times, but Yamaha seems to be willing to make them if someone orders them. If I could'n't get new ones I'd doctor the old ones up , with copper coat and reinstall them.
I just ordered one in January from www.dgy.com
11H-11181-05-00 is the part number....20.49 + 9.50 for shipping
I'm pretty sure the rings are OK. It didn't smoke when I started it, but maybe I'll do a compression test later just to see what I have to work with. I didn't spot any oil leakage, either, but I'd rather replace whatever seals, etc., now and not after I get it road-worthy. I'll be sure to get the gaskets prior to cracking the motor open. That's a good piece of advice.
Quote from: Rick G on May 16, 2008, 11:25:55 PM
Shop Rat, just don't pull the cylinders , with the idea of reringing it as rings are not available { although I know of a machine shop that can get them specially made) . The original rings are very hardy and last very well. Also buy the head gaskets befor you tear it down. They have been out of stock acouple of times, but Yamaha seems to be willing to make them if someone orders them. If I could'n't get new ones I'd doctor the old ones up , with copper coat and reinstall them.
Yes, the carbs came from a recent Ebay listing of Vision parts. The item No. is 230249801686. I got them OK, but didn't compare them to the ones on the bike now. If they are '82, they're in better shape (outside, anyway) than the originals.
Has anyone had any luck with adapting other carbs to the Vision motor? I put some Mikunis on one of my old Honda 750s successfully, and there are lots of Harleys running a Weber.
FC
Quote from: h2olawyer on May 16, 2008, 03:07:22 PM
83 carbs have a fuel return system that's not on the 82s. You will need to make a modification to the 82 tank (an inlet above the top fuel level) or find an 83 tank & petcock to use the carbs. Plus, you need to modify the lower half of the 82 airbox (or find an 83) and the rear upper engine mount must be modified as well.
If the carbs you bought on ebay were the ones recently sold there, you likely have another set of 82s. The seller had a bunch of parts misdescribed as for an 83. While many of the parts are either the same or easily adaptable, the carbs take the most work to install on an 82.
Rick_G often states that the 83 carbs were changed for a problem that didn't exist. That is mostly true when dealing with "Vision Stumble". The one improvement is the fuel return system. It keeps cooler fuel running through the carbs & helps with the vapor lock issue that crops up on rare occasions. I have experienced it when riding in hot weather in stop & go traffic.
I'm in the process of doing the 83 carb swap. I found all the associated 83 parts including the fuel tank, petcock & gauges. The 83 has a fuel gauge. 8) The 83 carbs and associated parts are hard to find - like most 83 only parts. I spent several years debating whether or not to make the change. Well cleaned, tuned & synched 82 carbs work fine. I've had my V at elevations from around 1,000ft. to over 14,000ft. Other than the vapor lock issue I described above, I get the Vision Stumble once in a while & then only when the engine is hot, on a hot day.
H2O
Thanks. I'll bookmark them in my "Bikes" folder. I've dealt with www.oldbikebarn.com for Honda parts and they have quite a few XZ pieces, but not cheap. Now that I have my current Honda all set for the season, I can get busy with the XZ550 project. I spent time looking over the gallery here and got a look at some great ideas. I'm picturing this bike now with a round headlamp and blinkers, a non-stock color and some touches here and there. I'm glad you folks aren't purists. :)
The seat is in great shape, so that stays as is. I think it's really comfy, and the riding positon suits me fine. It feels just as good as my Honda does with rearset sport kit and Corbin seat.
FC
Quote from: kwells on May 17, 2008, 02:13:05 AM
I just ordered one in January from www.dgy.com
11H-11181-05-00 is the part number....20.49 + 9.50 for shipping
Good to know there are some locals (almost). I'm not familiar with "Tiger's." Is that a shop or salvage yard?
FC
\
Quote from: Night Vision on May 15, 2008, 06:39:34 PM
welcome aboard.... I'm near Syracuse... look out around 10:30am tomorrow and maybe you'll see me and Joe riding past going up to Tiger's... if you need parts... PM Tiger and we'll bring them home for ya :D
Tiger is one of our forum members from north of the border and several Visions have passed through his hands and have come out the better for it.
As for adapting other carbs, it has been done but you are probably much better off with clean, properly jetted '82s.
If you need to know about Vision carbs, get Lucky's CD and pay attention when he posts.
I'll order the Lucky's CD. Maybe a carb swap, if I do it at all, is something that can come later after I have some miles logged.
One more question, then I'll shut up for a while: What does YICS do?
FC
Quote from: Walt_M. on May 17, 2008, 12:59:25 PM
Tiger is one of our forum members from north of the border and several Visions have passed through his hands and have come out the better for it.
As for adapting other carbs, it has been done but you are probably much better off with clean, properly jetted '82s.
If you need to know about Vision carbs, get Lucky's CD and pay attention when he posts.
YICS: annoys Yamaha owners
but it's supposed to capture gas vapor left in the head on the intake stroke and redistribute it on the next stroke. A sealed YICS SHOULD add some efficiency to your mileage.
Quote from: Shop Rat on May 17, 2008, 12:14:28 PM
I'm not familiar with "Tiger's." Is that a shop or salvage yard?
Salvage yard, pub, Vision hostel...
Yeah, that seems to cover most of it :-) One day I might actually meet him ;D
Brian
As for your earlier question about different carbs, I believe Glyn - one of our New Zelanders - was experimenting with a Weber carb. Not sure how that project is going now, though.
When spotlessly clean & properly adjusted / synchronized, the 82 carbs work fine - with the possible exception of running in traffic @ higher ambient temps. They're just a bit more finicky than most other motorcycle carbs.
H2O
the only other down draft carbs of that era are Venture and V-max. BUT they are spaced differently....a bit further apart. But anything is possible with enough time you can fit anything...but will it work? I have a Venture...I know this. No, I have not tried to fit Venture carbs...yet.
The bike looks sweet! Just something I discovered about mine that I would like to share is to check the oil level. When I got mine I just assumed it was where it should be--then I found some excess oil in the airbox.
h2olawyer suggested that the oil was overfilled. I checked it and noticed that it wasd WAY overfilled. I also noticed then that I even had oil blowing out of the front valve cover gasket. Thank God I chaged the oil and filled it between the marks on the window. No excess oil in the box and no oil blowing out of the seals anymore.
Enjoy your bike.
Ed--
Correct oil level when full is the top of the window. FYI: oil capcity is 2.9 qts with a filter change. I just dump in 3 qts. and declare victory. The additional .1 qt. has never caused me any problems over the last 24 years.
The manual shows the oil fill level as the lower line & top of sight glass as full. I've noticed that when I fill mine to the top line as per the owner's manual, I get significantly more oil in the airbox. If I leave it just a little lower, then the oil problem is nearly non-existent. I ride mine @ 5K + RPM much of the time, outside of town, as this keeps me closer to the powerband.
Figured if mine has that issue, it isn't likely the only one. The several airboxes I've bought as parts have all been caked with oil inside.
H2O
Mine always needs cleaning up, I'm going to experiment with a longer hose leading to a catch bottle.
Quote from: QBS on May 17, 2008, 11:42:43 PM
Correct oil level when full is the top of the window. FYI: oil capcity is 2.9 qts with a filter change. I just dump in 3 qts. and declare victory. The additional .1 qt. has never caused me any problems over the last 24 years.
& if you install my oil cooler, then 3 qts even works perfectly!
I guess my being an old hot-rodder of sorts makes me think of stuff like that. I had once wanted to put mikunis on my CB1100 because they made such a big difference on 750s, but I never did it. It runs fine now and the last thing it needs is more HP. I'm pretty well convinced now that staying with the stock '82 XZ carbs is my best choice.
Quote from: h2olawyer on May 17, 2008, 03:26:31 PM
As for your earlier question about different carbs, I believe Glyn - one of our New Zelanders - was experimenting with a Weber carb. Not sure how that project is going now, though.
When spotlessly clean & properly adjusted / synchronized, the 82 carbs work fine - with the possible exception of running in traffic @ higher ambient temps. They're just a bit more finicky than most other motorcycle carbs.
H2O
Quote from: h2olawyer on May 17, 2008, 11:54:25 PM
The manual shows the oil fill level as the lower line & top of sight glass as full. I've noticed that when I fill mine to the top line as per the owner's manual, I get significantly more oil in the airbox.
H2O
I just vented the head to the outside, down near the rear wheel. Its just one less thing to worry about...having your air filter bathing in motor oil...
Quote from: sapienwaste on May 18, 2008, 03:29:42 PM
[I just vented the head to the outside, down near the rear wheel. Its just one less thing to worry about...having your air filter bathing in motor oil...
As long as it's not vaporizing ON the rear tire, that would be a bad day.....
Quote from: Lucky on May 18, 2008, 03:32:53 PM
Quote from: sapienwaste on May 18, 2008, 03:29:42 PM
[I just vented the head to the outside, down near the rear wheel. Its just one less thing to worry about...having your air filter bathing in motor oil...
As long as it's not vaporizing ON the rear tire, that would be a bad day.....
Ouch...Good point. ;D
David
Quote from: Shop Rat on May 17, 2008, 12:14:28 PM
Good to know there are some locals (almost). I'm not familiar with "Tiger's." Is that a shop or salvage yard?
FC
\Quote from: Night Vision on May 15, 2008, 06:39:34 PM
welcome aboard.... I'm near Syracuse... look out around 10:30am tomorrow and maybe you'll see me and Joe riding past going up to Tiger's... if you need parts... PM Tiger and we'll bring them home for ya :D
:) Hi Shop Rat, I'm that "Tiger" being mentioned... ::) ;D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D... ;)
8).......TIGER....... 8)
Quote from: Tiger on May 18, 2008, 04:33:54 PM
Quote from: Shop Rat on May 17, 2008, 12:14:28 PM
Good to know there are some locals (almost). I'm not familiar with "Tiger's." Is that a shop or salvage yard?
FC
\Quote from: Night Vision on May 15, 2008, 06:39:34 PM
welcome aboard.... I'm near Syracuse... look out around 10:30am tomorrow and maybe you'll see me and Joe riding past going up to Tiger's... if you need parts... PM Tiger and we'll bring them home for ya :D
:) Hi Shop Rat, I'm that "Tiger" being mentioned... ::) ;D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D... ;)
8).......TIGER....... 8)
Thanks for the intro. I must say everyone here seems to love these bikes. I'm really getting eager to ride mine as soon as it's ready.
I'm going to be putting a set of 83 carbs on my 82 mostly because I'm looking for better fuel mileage. As far as I know, you need to modify the lower part of your air box and the rear upper motormount to make room for them. The fuel return line isn't needed if you dont want to go thru the hassel.
My 82 carbs run just fine after a good cleaning and fresh gaskets so I'm in no hurry to do the switch.
What is it about the 83 carbs that gives more MPG?
Frank
Quote from: zore on May 19, 2008, 08:43:29 AM
I'm going to be putting a set of 83 carbs on my 82 mostly because I'm looking for better fuel mileage. As far as I know, you need to modify the lower part of your air box and the rear upper motormount to make room for them. The fuel return line isn't needed if you dont want to go thru the hassel.
My 82 carbs run just fine after a good cleaning and fresh gaskets so I'm in no hurry to do the switch.
I'm not sure yet. What I have noticed is that those people with 83 carbs seem to be getting slightly better mileage than with 82 carbs. I'm going to give it a try and see what I get. If it's unchanged, the 83 carbs wont lose any value ;D
I just got a "top-end" gasket set from ebay and I'm ready to take the heads off. The Haynes book seems to be OK to guide me thru it, and I'm ordering Lucky's CD today as well.
Quote from: Rick G on May 16, 2008, 11:25:55 PM
Shop Rat, just don't pull the cylinders , with the idea of reringing it as rings are not available { although I know of a machine shop that can get them specially made) . The original rings are very hardy and last very well. Also buy the head gaskets befor you tear it down. They have been out of stock acouple of times, but Yamaha seems to be willing to make them if someone orders them. If I could'n't get new ones I'd doctor the old ones up , with copper coat and reinstall them.
Just to clarify, I'm not venting the head ON the tire. >:( >:(
Quote from: sapienwaste on May 18, 2008, 03:29:42 PM
Quote from: h2olawyer on May 17, 2008, 11:54:25 PM
The manual shows the oil fill level as the lower line & top of sight glass as full. I've noticed that when I fill mine to the top line as per the owner's manual, I get significantly more oil in the airbox.
H2O
I just vented the head to the outside, down near the rear wheel. Its just one less thing to worry about...having your air filter bathing in motor oil...
There's a vent on the front head too. I'm going to vent mine over board , when I have time , but the vent tubes will end in a catch bottle . You just have to remember to empty it, before it fills up.
You should see all the catch bottles on the Formula Mazda. One for coolant (water) and two for the oil (has something to do with the design of the 13B Mazda rotary engine). Most I've ever seen in either oil bottle is just enough to dirty the inside of the bottle. The race kart has a catch bottle for the oil as well & it gets filled pretty fast. Needs emptying between races or about every 20 laps.
H2O
hi shop rat i am building a bobber from my xz and i have got a set of dellorto drla 36's to try and fit.
Quote from: arfa vmax on September 07, 2008, 03:29:55 AM
hi shop rat i am building a bobber from my xz and i have got a set of dellorto drla 36's to try and fit.
Got any pics?
Here's what I found after a google search. Very interesting, but will they fit stock or do you need a very custom carb boot?
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=648676
The two chokes are closer together than on the original carbs.If they are the same diameter I had thought about turning a collar for between the head and the carb rubber to make them the same.I have just started work on the bike again after getting rid of a couple of other projects.Sorted a yamaha front end from simcha and am looking at a ducatti rear shock.
I can definately see why everybody loves these bikes.I ride as much as I can.I am having trouble starting the bike when it is cold or has'nt been started for a few hours.I got stranded at work yesterday morning because it was a little wet out and my bike wouldn't start.Pisses me off but once I get it going it runs great.I actually rode for about 6 hours today.Nodody seems to have a clue what the problem is.anybody have any suggestions?
Quote from: vadasz1 on September 08, 2008, 08:57:03 PM
Here's what I found after a google search. Very interesting, but will they fit stock or do you need a very custom carb boot?
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=648676
Thats hot.
Kev, try putting the petcock on PRI, (prime) for 2 or 3 minuets , and then quickly twist the throttle a couple of times (this will cause the accelerator pumps to squirt a couple of shots of gas into each carb) put the choke on about 1/2 and crank it . If its really cold try full choke , but reduce it to 1/2 choke when it fires.
Report back on how this has affected the cold starting. Also put the petcock back on the run position , when it fires.
Quote from: kev10104 on September 26, 2008, 12:59:29 AM
I can definately see why everybody loves these bikes.I ride as much as I can.I am having trouble starting the bike when it is cold or has'nt been started for a few hours.I got stranded at work yesterday morning because it was a little wet out and my bike wouldn't start.Pisses me off but once I get it going it runs great.I actually rode for about 6 hours today.Nodody seems to have a clue what the problem is.anybody have any suggestions?
My starting routine for cold starts: Half Choke, twist throttle three times and hit the start button. On cold days it starts on the first or second start.
For warm starts, one or two - if needed - twists of the throttle and hit the start button. Starts right up.
Whenever Lucky comes over, warm the bike up for a few minutes then cut it off before he gets here. Hit the start button and it starts right up....and smile really big.
If you are haveing starting issues especially when it is cold, check your battery. These bikes need ample amounts of juice to start. If you are riding it and it starts right up, its probably because you got a good charge. If the bike sits overnight and does not start, you battery is draining.
You may also want to check your grounds and connections.
David
Quote from: Rick G on September 26, 2008, 02:37:17 AM
Kev, try putting the petcock on PRI, (prime) for 2 or 3 minuets , and then quickly twist the throttle a couple of times (this will cause the accelerator pumps to squirt a couple of shots of gas into each carb) put the choke on about 1/2 and crank it . If its really cold try full choke , but reduce it to 1/2 choke when it fires.
Report back on how this has affected the cold starting. Also put the petcock back on the run position , when it fires.
Will switching to a hotter plug make starts easier? It cured my Honda 4 of cold-blooded behavior.
FC
I ride the thing in 40f temps all the time and never have an issue with starting. The only time it's harder to start is if it sits. Then I have to put the petcock on prime for the bowls to fill.
I'm not sure how heat range would effect cold start when it comes to replacing plugs. I could see that the simple act of replacing old plugs with new plugs may make a difference.
Hotter plugs will not promote easier starting , unless the bike is miss jetted.. If too hot a plug is used , engine damage can result. I have experienced motorcycles over the years, that would go from too lean , to too rich ,without ever finding just right. .
many factors can affect starting , condition of the plugs ,wires ,plug caps, and the state of tune of the carbs, among others.
I appreciate all the advice and will try the prime tomorrow.I had the stator replaced recently which was definately a must and it charges awesome now.It's just that first start that is a bugger.It rarely starts right away as it is but when it's warm it's not to bad.All you guys are great on here and i've mentioned this site to some of my friends because of the great help and willingness to help coming from everybody.Thank you all.
I put in on prime today and tried to start it but had the same result.It takes anywhere from 8-15 times before it starts.When it does start it dies and I have to try again.
what is your starting proceedure? you may have to experiment and find what she wants.
some want full choke, don't touch the throttle
some need a couple of twists of the grip, then hit the starter.
some need to roll the throttle on whilst cranking.
if you are doing 8-15 tries, becareful you don't wear out your starter brushes...
Quote from: kev10104 on September 27, 2008, 09:56:51 PM
I put in on prime today and tried to start it but had the same result.It takes anywhere from 8-15 times before it starts.When it does start it dies and I have to try again.
This will be a setup issue. Dirty carbs, incorrect mixture, out of wack mixture, leaky yics? Could be any number of things. What I will say is when you have everything set how it should be, she's right as rain. Some times it just takes some work to get there, but you'll get there provided you realize that where you are at now is not the end of the road.
I have tried every procedure.Full choke,half,no choke roll the throttle and it is all the same.The funny thing is that it started better before I had the stator replaced.I always had to charge the battery but it started better.I even tried to charge the battery this time to make sure it had full juice but no such luck.I have put in some carb cleaner hoping this would help with no success.
:) Kev, were are you located again.... ???
8).......TIGER....... 8)
so, after it is running ... it starts fine eh? meaning: after it's warmed up, she'll restart ok....
get new plugs, wires and caps...
good chance the wires/caps are 25 years old..
....and if you haven't invested $5 and put new plugs in since you got it... shame on you!
if you did, good on you, now finish the job!
If , after you go through the ignition, it still has difficulty starting, think about sending me your carbs. More than likely they need to be dipped.
I am in Oshawa,Ontario.It does start pretty good and when I had the stator replaced the mechanic said the plugs were great.I will try anything and I have the manual but just don't have a clue what I am doing.
Kev, I grew up in Niagara Falls and have family in Brockville. I've been through Oshawa, many times. Its a small world! ;D ;D ;D ;D
It definately is a small world.I have been to Niagara falls many times.Beautiful place.
Quote from: kev10104 on September 29, 2008, 01:16:32 AM
I am in Oshawa,Ontario.It does start pretty good and when I had the stator replaced the mechanic said the plugs were great.I will try anything and I have the manual but just don't have a clue what I am doing.
:) Bring her up to my place in Erin and we'll do the plugs, wires, etc... 8)
8).......TIGER....... 8)
I would recommend you take Tiger up on his offer , he will get it going in a hurry! ;D ;D ;D
the reason I mentioned plugs is: if the wrong spark plug is installed, it could cause hard starting.
If the plug is a resistor plug (ie DR8E ) and then combined with resitor caps.... that could lead to hard starting....
after it is started, your fuel/air ratio could be good, and your mechanic could see good plugs..
I appreciate that Tiger and will do it whenever you are availlabe.
I vote cruddy carbs :)
Quote from: kev10104 on September 29, 2008, 08:35:33 PM
I appreciate that Tiger and will do it whenever you are availlabe.
:) I have pm'd you my phone number, give me a call...
8).......TIGER....... 8)