tonight is the night

[nvdranger]

Like I said bad news keeps comin in.  Went to take off the P.O.S. y-pipes and SNAP, then again.  3 heads broke off the bolts, luckily I got 1 out with a pair of vicegrips and had to drill the other 2 out.  but the the nut rings dont fit so I have to find those.  found the diaphram for the rear carb and its on its way.  
Took the starter out and I think I found the problem.  I assume there should not be ANY oil or gunk near the magnets and communicator (some name like that).  Well to say the least it was half full of crappy oil that had like jelled over, looked like black jello.  So I took it apart further and cleaned it as good as possible.  I believe the o-ring I need to replace is on the very end, but how do I get that end apart?  Or do I just pull that ring off?  Let me know, thanks.

Ken

[Bruce]

The seal you need is inside the nose of the starter. Full instructions are here..

http://www.ghetti.net/rov/Technical/Starter_Rebuild/starter_rebuild.html

I found it to be fairly straight forward..

Bruce..

[Dave T.]

Took the starter out and I think I found the problem. ?I assume there should not be ANY oil or gunk near the magnets and communicator (some name like that). ?
Ken

You assumed right. No oil. Remove the snap ring with a snap ring pliers. Tap the shaft out with a soft faced hammer in a vice. No oil in the DC permanent magnet motor and armature (spinning thing between the magnets). ?;D Commutator bars are at the end of the shaft where the brushes ride. They reverse the polarity and make the motor do it's thing.

Get a new seal. Be careful with the o-rings, they are expensive.

[nvdranger]

I always forget about that tech page on this site, won't happen again you can bet on that.  I removed the snap rings and thought the output should just push out, well here comes the rubber mallot.  No one it town had the seal and had to order it so I have to wait til the end of the week for it.  Not a big deal cant start her up til I find the nut rings for the exhaust. Thanks for the help.

Ken

I don't know how, w/that much oil in the starter, the previous owner didn't realize a problem.  The darn thing was half full and wasn't clean what so ever.  Took me awhile to get it clean, but its done and all I need is the seal.  Thanks again.

[h2olawyer]

Hi Ranger -

Thanks to Kiawrench, I have an extra seal if you need it.  I can put it in an envelope tomorrow if you'd like.  Postage shouldn't be more than a 37 cent stamp or maybe a little more.  Let me know if you could use a free part!

H2o

[nvdranger]

 :D I would like that if you don't mind. ?I searched most of the day saturday and came up with nothin, the only seal I can get is the original seal from yamaha. ?I will return the favor somehow.

Also, I still cant get the damn nose off. ?I dont want to hit it too hard and break somethin. ?I also just tried pushing it out and it barely moves. ?Any other suggestions?

Ken

(email sent)

[h2olawyer]

Ken -

I didn't think Yamaha had this seal. ?It resides inside the nose of the starter. ?It is not the o ring in the engine case where the starter attaches. ?

The snap ring in the nose is easy to see and remove but the wire spring retainer on the inside was difficult for me to find until I cleaned the oil out of the nose of the starter.

The most important things to remember when doing your starter are to get all the washers back in in the same order they were originally installed and to get those @*&!%$# planetary gears aligned right. ?Also, it is a good time to check your brushes and get everything really clean. ?My starter wasn't as bad as yours sounds but it sure worked tons better after I fixed it! ?It is one of those items that gradually gets worse and you don't really notice the decreased performance of it until it quits entirely.

I'll get that seal in the mail in the morning. - same address as I sent the speedo / tach housing or do you have a PO box?

H2o

(haven't received the e-mail yet but will check again after F1 race repeat on Speed Channel)

[nvdranger]

sent the email about 10 mins ago.  I talked to a guy over the phone so its probably a good thing I didn't order it and expect I was gettin the right part - then have to wait longer.  Thanks again.
But I'm lookin at the nose of the stater and don't see the wire spring retainer, may help if I knew what that was or what it looked like  ;D.  Is that the part just inside the front of the nose that looks like 1/4 inch sections or is it somewhere on the inside of the starter?

Ken

[Bruce]

Ken,

If you mean getting the shaft to push back into the case after removing the gear and 2 circlips, I had to smack it with a hammer and a drift.. Not to hard though..

Bruce

[h2olawyer]

There's a picture of its location on Ron's starter rebuild section in the "Vision Tech Info" link above & to the right (starter rebuild is bottom link on that page).  Look at the photo right above the pic of the seal & green boxes.  The blue arrow points to the location of the inner ring.  This section was unavailable when I did my rebuild and that nose will not budge with that inner ring in place.  Trust me, I really tried!

H2o

[nvdranger]

If you look at the starter rebuild in the tech forum, it says remove the 2nd snap ring and remove the output shaft from the starter nosecone.  Well the hammer didn't push it out and H2o said somethin about a spring retainer  ???.  Need to figure that out.  Its being stubborn and doesn't want to help me out.

Ken

[nvdranger]

the nosecone assembly is about to go out the window  >:(  how did you get to the spring retainer with thing that holds the placetary grears on in the way?  I can't get anything under there and its royally pissing me off.

Ken

[Bruce]

As I think about it, I seem to remember a freezer, a block of wook and a large hammer invovled in the dissasembly.. I remember now that I ended up hitting it a lot harder than I thought I should to get it apart, but it did come apart.. Made me wish for a hydraulic press..

Bruce.

[h2olawyer]

Ken -

I wish I could remember how I did mine.  All I remember was it was very frustrating then I managed to get it off.  Instead of throwing mine out the window, I beat on my workbench with my deadblow hammer a few times.  Thought about finding something to break but decided wanton destruction wouldn't solve my problem.  I think I ended up using a combination of small screwdriver and snap ring pliers or needlenose pliers.  Guess I should have kept a journal.  After the inner retaining ring came out, it was fairly easy to separate.

Sorry I'm not more help.

H2o

[nvdranger]

I've been workin too hard to throw it out the window or break somethin.  I learned the hard way and broke my hand twice,yes I know I'm an idiot.  But thats behind me and I wont go doin that every again.
At any rate I'm gonna give it another whack tonight after I get off work.  

Ken

[Lucky]

Ok, I didn't review all the posts in this thread, but you do realize there are 2 snap rings right? one holds the gear to the shaft, the other one (under the gear) holds the shaft itself into the nose of the starter.

ok, just making sure...

--Lucky

[nvdranger]

come on lucky, I know I'm new to this but not dumb, j/k ;), I did get both those off.  Thats why this is so frustrating, it should just come off with a tap tappy tap tap taparoo (happy gilmore for those wondering).  I've got a day or two to figure it out before the seal arrives (thanks h20 :D)

Ken

[nvdranger]

horray it came apart.  just had to prop it up correctly and whack, whack it good.  it slooowly worked its way out.  anyways found out why it was leaking, uhm to say the least it was rock hard.  felt like a piece of plastic that had been wedged it there.  now its all clean thanks again to everyone.

Ken

[h2olawyer]

CONGRATS , Ken!!!

Your new seal should be there in a day or two so you have lots of time to get everything clean & shiny.  Got it sent Monday AM.

Just kidding about breaking things - I normally go in for a cold one or two well before it gets that bad.  I learned those lessons a long time ago.  Living in a small town 160 miles from the nearest reliable source of parts - especially VW's -teaches you how to preserve what you have and to think creatively on how to fix what's broke!

H2o

[nvdranger]

I figured you were joking, I was joking to when I said it was gonna go out the window. ?I learned that lesson the hard, having your right hand (i'm right handed) in a cast for over 3 months 2 different times, once during football - having to sit out sucked bad enough, it shows you its really not worth it. ?Oh and I didn't mention I had surgery with 3 pins through 3 bones the second time around - they just pulled those pins right out with an old set of pliars. ?Moral of my rambling - its not worth it!!

EDIT: I was looking at the brushes and they are about half the length of the ones on the rebuild page, just a guess.  I will probably be replacing the brushes just in case.  Can the brushes themselves be replaced or do I need to replace the whole assembly, which is $44 off of powersportspro.com?  They are still making descent contact but I don't know for how much longer.  I would rather fix it now and not have to worry about it in the future.

Ken