Mr Obama has a plan

[Rikugun]

It appears I've accidentally stumbled into the Fox News section of ROV. I'm tempted to start a new thread on stators just to divert attention off politics and back to something that matters.  :laugh:

[vadasz1]

+1 to Rikugun

[Walt_M.]

I actually started it as a joke, I lost interest a long time ago.

[funkamongus]

Ah yes, where the organised crime syndicate went to roost. And now you say they're criminals? Wow! If we audit the fed, I believe its all over. Anarchy will ensue. Rightly so, too. We've been screwed for decades.

[Brian Moffet]

I actually started it as a joke, I lost interest a long time ago.

And it was a really good joke too :-)

[funkamongus]

It was funny! But, it does matter, too.

[Brian Moffet]

But, it does matter, too.

Yes, which is why I point out serious problems in peoples ideas.  If you would rather I stayed quiet so that all the like thinkers can have an echo chamber, just let me know. 

Brian

[funkamongus]

No, I wouldnt prefer that, it does matter. I dont hear you blindly regurgitating idealogue ideas. You seem sane enough to me... for a liberal, anyway. I disagree, as you know, with the liberal plan. I see it as a failed experiment out here where we both live. Detroit is even worse. Its an idea that doesnt work with the funds we can create. Greece is where we are heading, my friend.

[h2olawyer]

No serious flaw in a flat tax.  Much better than a VAT or sales tax!

I initially thought the reply just wasn't worth taking up space here.  (I had a quite verbose response prepared but deleted it in the interest of comity.)  Basically the $40K / yr family could cut expenses and/or find more income.  They chose to have two kids on that income & choices have consequences.  Two grand a month for rent gets a really nice place here.  They could live in a decent place for half that in most of this country.  Also, the flat tax proposals I know of eliminate the payroll tax, FICA, etc.  (Just pointing out the obvious flaws.  ;) )

The original joke was really good.   ;D

H₂O

[Brian Moffet]

Basically the $40K / yr family could cut expenses and/or find more income.  They chose to have two kids on that income & choices have consequences.  Two grand a month for rent gets a really nice place here.  They could live in a decent place for half that in most of this country.  Also, the flat tax proposals I know of eliminate the payroll tax, FICA, etc.  (Just pointing out the obvious flaws.  ;) )

Or they were unexpectedly laid off from one job.  A 2 bedroom place here goes for 2400 or more.  :o

My point was that while it is nice to think that every expense could be linearly scaled to the income, that's not the case.  There are so many flaws with a flat tax in the real world it's truly scary.  You will always need a stratified work force, and with the flat tax you quickly end up in a situation where the lower levels of the work force can no longer live where they are needed, so the move.  That means a collapse from the bottom in those areas, so the upper levels leave, and move to where they don't have problems.  That raises the cost of living there, which causes the lower level work force to not be able to live there any more, so they leave.

lather, rinse, repeat.....

It's actually a rather interesting computer modeling program.

Brian (just pointing out the obvious flaws.)

[Brian Moffet]

I see it as a failed experiment out here where we both live.  Greece is where we are heading, my friend.

In my opinion, what has failed is the concept of compromise.  There will always be a need for taxes.  There will always be a need for cuts.  You can't do one without the other.  We have a situation now where neither can occur, and that is a failure.  Unless you want to live in Mogadishu, Somalia where there is no functioning government and people have to resort to piracy, you really can't follow the Grover Norquist goal of shrinking government to be small enough to drown in a bathtub.

Interesting side-line on the Greece issue.  Greece has the euro as the monetary standard.  This is shared with 16 other countries, all with differing governments.

The U.S. has the dollar as the monetary standard.  While other countries use the dollar, they don't share any monetary policy with the U.S. So we are very different than  Greece and the Euro.

Brian

P.S. Interesting reading:  http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/09/business/global/09blogger.html?src=me&ref=homepage

[Brian Moffet]

And in case you're wondering, I've sparred with my father on these issues for the last 30 years.

Brian

[fret not]

There will always be some discontent with "the government", I think it is designed that way, but we all are responsible for being aware and educated about what goes on.   It is up to us citizens to vote and speak up when something goes wrong.  How many of you actually contact your elected officials and voice your opinions and views, vote, and seriously try to learn about the issues?  Yeah, I know, only one vote so what does it matter.  But it DOES matter.  big business wants your money, as much of it as it can get.  It's not a personal thing, or evil intent, it is just the goal to get more money and if you get squashed in the process it's too bad.  Big government is bad enough but big business controlling the govt. is what is so scary now.  Big business is NOT your friend. 

[funkamongus]

I do, but they tell me, "I understand your position, but, (and I paraphrase this part, but keep its intent) We won and Screw You." Try sending Boxer a note and see if you get better.  In fact. Ive written every Californian and the whitehouse. For about a decade. Im ignored.

[fret not]

The point is that you do contact them.  You are not ignored, it just seems that way.  I know, I get the same treatment, a nice form letter thanking me for my concern and then rambling about some party talking points, something else entirely.  Keep it up.  Politicians won't see the light until they feel the heat! 

Washington DC, something like 86 square miles surrounded by reality.

[h2olawyer]

My bachelor's degree is in political science.  I have been active in local party politics since 1976 (when I was 16).  I've followed elections closely since 1968 - when I was only 8!  Not only do I contact the offices of my elected officials, I talk to many of them face to face on a regular basis.  I've even received a few calls from a couple of them for reasons other than elections, donations or other forms of political support.  My degree had an emphasis in comparative communism and I was really aiming toward becoming an analyst for the CIA.  But, when the wall came down and the Soviet Union crumbled, that degree became an Edsel (or a worthless history degree).  That's when I decided to head to law school.

Trust me, if the elected official (more likely a staffer reading the letter / email / fax) doesn't agree with your position, it typically gets ignored.  Then, your name and address goes on a list for a generic response.  That's been increasingly true on both sides of the aisle since the mid 1980s.

Washington DC was built on a swamp for a reason . . .

H₂O

[funkamongus]

Both sides of the aisle need cleaning out. I say V.E.T.O. Vote Every one of Them Out. Remember in GOvember, Be heard or be HERD. Yes, I wrote those and will spread them as far and as fast as I can. AND for an added piece of info. I have decided Im moving out of california to let the illegals and the liberals have it, I am moving to ARIZONA!!!! Yeah, I said it. and Im doing it. You guys can HAVE cali and Im gonna laugh like hell when it falls in the sea. Its a failed experiment in liberal socialism and Ive seen, and had, enough. BUT, Im sticking around until after november. Its important to get pelosi, fienstien, boxer, and newsome, out of there, and Im gonna do my part.

[Brian Moffet]

I have decided Im moving out of california to let the illegals and the liberals have it, I am moving to ARIZONA!!!!

Best of luck to you there.  They have some great scenery, you could take up photography and start exploring some of the canyons and other areas.

Brian

[funkamongus]

I'll be right on the Colo. river. It should be nice. Doing lots of dirt bike riding early spring/late fall, but it gets hot fast. Im going to keep my cabin as a 2nd place for a while, but not for long, as there is NO work here, my taxes are crazy, and its getting where I cant afford to go to the grocery store, or as Ive been calling it "the Safeway Bio-Jewelry Boutique". With the casinos going out of business, (which is weird because they hire the illegals and when they dont have enough, they go to bosnia-herzegovinia and poland to get other folks that will do it for half instead of actually paying a living wage to an american.)  I tried to get a job there but the human resources person said, in very broken english, "we cant hire you, you cant even speak the language." Guess where they came from? Now, I dont expect that part to be a LOT better in AZ, but I expect the mindset about it will be. In Parker, there are jobs, and noone wants to work, they are all indian and mexican and old, retired folk. Well, as soon as I walk in to a place, and express interest, they want hire me, why, I can speak their language AND actually WANT to work.. Oh, and when they tell you how good those illegals work out here in Cali,, dont buy it, I worked on a shovel for two years in the construction field, and I was the one shoveling, NOT the Illegals, even ones with less seniority. They were texting on their phone and driving their loader between hills and eating and napping, all while driving their escalade back and forth to work. This is all true and fact Ive seen with my own eyes, not regurgitated from a KKK pamphlet. Ill be glad to be well rid of it.

[Coil Coyle]

I'd like to return to the Tax Rate we had under President Eisenhower.

We grew Our GDP at 6% a year, saved the World economy, rebuilt Europe, led the World in Technology and built an educated middle class in a large part of Our Country.

When President Reagan said "We're taking the Government off of your backs!" I was willing to sit it out and see if you followers of Milton Friedman and Grover Nordquist were correct. I was willing to consider that my views were wrong.

I simply don't like how unregulated markets with renegade hedge funds and corporate person hood has turned out.

$0.02
;)
Coil

PS: Scott, I answer to your PM last month; my opinion of the BP oil disaster is that if there had been no limits to liability in Our National Drilling policy BP would not have pumped the Heavy Mud "pill" out of the well bore until they had repaired the cement job that Haliburton had failed to make pass the vacuum test and replace the blowout preventer that had shed rubber onto the shaker screen.
My Father in Law, Wilburn Parker, was a sharecroppers son who rose to the rank of mud man in the oil patch. He knew that when the recirculation gets gassy you mix up a Barite heavy mud "pill" to hold the pressure in the formation; no matter what some college educated company man said to do.
The only reason that well failed was because the financial loses at risk were not high enough.
We can and do drill safe wells but like any thing in logging, manufacturing, or Electrical construction; doing a job correctly costs more than an unsafe risk taking job.

It is ironic seeing Gulf Coast followers of Milton Friedman calling for "The Federal Government" to come fix their problem, I must admit.