83 Vision Scrambler/Adventure bike

[artbone]

Back in the 70s when I was running a bike shop I did quite a bit of business with "Forking by Frank" and they really did top quality work. The skid plate sounds like a good idea also. The rear shock as been worn out for as long as I've owned the bike so I'd be interested in what would be a good bolt on option.

[Rikugun]

I'd always heard good things about Frank's work as well. As far as the shocks are concerned, I remember reading about at least two and there are probably others. One is from the Yamaha YZF600 (detuned R6) and will reportedly add up to 2.5 inches by itself (measured where?) and is a stiffer spring rate. A good choice for larger/taller riders but you have to lengthen the sidestand or carry a hunk of 2x4 with you.  :)

A saw another reference by member "ShaneSpring" from NZ using one from a Suzuki RF900. I don't recall him noting any ride height changes on that one. You might try PM'ing him and Don Vanecek (YZF600) for details. I think either swap required only a modest bit of finagling.

[Rick G]

I wanted something that would mount any bar of my choice , also I wanted it to look professionally done  (by me)  In my opinion the vision  handle bar risers are a mickey mouse  setup. I can't see any good trying to weld extensions on the bar ends.  I'm picky about bars and wanted to change them to something I felt comfortable with.. Besides  the stock ones are ugly.
All my pics are in my old computer , so I'll take some new ones Sunday or Monday, I'll dig the XZ out of its cocoon and dust it off!

[kwells]

I'm running a rear shock from a triumph TT600. It adds maybe 1/2 inch. I don't know if that would really be enough. InaneCathode is running a pretty tall shock in the rear but I can't remember what model it came from.

[inanecathode]

I'm running a rear shock from a triumph TT600. It adds maybe 1/2 inch. I don't know if that would really be enough. InaneCathode is running a pretty tall shock in the rear but I can't remember what model it came from.

YZF600 I believe. 1000 times better than stock, puts a tad more weight on the front, and a bit less rake. Makes the whole thing a little quicker to steer.

[inanecathode]

similar concept / similar original specs

18" knobbies are plentiful

I think the achilles heel i havent really seen mentioned yet is the fact that both the ascot and the vision are shaft drive. Shaft drive = fixed gear ratio. Unless you plan to be doing lots of dunes and straight flat sections that street gearing is a HUGE liability off road.
I happen to know that that exact ascot is on its 4th set of clutch disks at this point.

[iain]

There is always XZ400 gearing

Iain
NZ

[Rikugun]

Shaft drive has it's pluses too. Chain and sprockets used off road will realize accelerated wear and require increased maintenance intervals. Shaft drive maintenance on the other hand shouldn't really be effected much and is blissfully infrequent to start with.    ;D

Everything is a compromise including the very concept of using big heavy bikes off road. Look at the big GS model and Triumph's Tiger Explorer - both heavy and shaft drive. If you primarily want to pick you way over rocks or ride tight trails even a chain drive Tiger model with alternate gearing isn't a good choice. (maybe one of the KTM's though!  ;))  A trials bike or dedicated woods bike is the better choice and those need to be transported there.  :(

For the occasional fire trail or drive to a remote camping spot after gobbling up many street miles in comfort - that's the realm of the AT style bike. Much like SUV's however, most of these bikes won't see much more off roading than the patch of grass between the shed and the driveway.  :)

[artbone]

Shaft drive has it's pluses too. Chain and sprockets used off road will realize accelerated wear and require increased maintenance intervals. Shaft drive maintenance on the other hand shouldn't really be effected much and is blissfully infrequent to start with.    ;D

Everything is a compromise including the very concept of using big heavy bikes off road. Look at the big GS model and Triumph's Tiger Explorer - both heavy and shaft drive. If you primarily want to pick you way over rocks or ride tight trails even a chain drive Tiger model with alternate gearing isn't a good choice. (maybe one of the KTM's though!  ;))  A trials bike or dedicated woods bike is the better choice and those need to be transported there.  :(

For the occasional fire trail or drive to a remote camping spot after gobbling up many street miles in comfort - that's the realm of the AT style bike. Much like SUV's however, most of these bikes won't see much more off roading than the patch of grass between the shed and the driveway.  :)

The thing that most influences off road ability is tires. Most so-called adventure-touring tires are just street tires with wider rain grooves. A group of club members rode over to a little town called Xichu yesterday and on the way home we took a dirt road through the mountains. I almost got in trouble on my VStrom a couple of times, going downhill into a corner and couldn't get slowed down. It was bumpy with a dusting of pebbles like ball bearing and I got the rear end sliding from side to side. Didn't fall but sure got my heart rate up and my eyes wide open.
I think if you put proper off road tires on some of the big hogs you could probably do some surprising things but, of course, you would wear them out really quickly riding on the road at high speeds, particularly if you had the bike loaded down with luggage.
As you said Rikugun, everything is a compromise.

[Rikugun]

I'd agree tires are supremely important. Here's a great multi-part comparison of AT bikes done last summer by motorcyclenews.com.  They outfitted all the bikes with the same Continental road legal/dirt biased tire and went on an adventure.  :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umHWLA8X2ik
Being a very popular market segment there is a plethora of this kind of comparison in print and video form. Here's another multi part report from Cycle World:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOrEat_KRQg
They don't specifically mention changing tires but I ride with guys that own 2 of the tested models and I know they are not OEM tires. They all seem to be outfitted with more aggressive tires.

Tests include significant off road work and they know the OEM tires aren't gonna cut it.  ;) Having said that there are clear winners off road. Besides tires, things like weight, weight bias, steering geometry, suspension, ABS/power mode flexibility, and even rim size has a huge effect on dirt prowess. As you might expect, any lineup that includes a KTM model usually has it winning highest marks off road.

Here's a quick comparison of middle weights (including the SV) after what appears to be just road riding. Very interesting discussion after as the four riders compare the bikes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC9DBhyC-7c 

I really didn't "get" the whole AT genre initially but now find it very interesting. Having watched the TV mini series "Long Way Round" probably had something to do with it.  :) It's entertaining and I'd recommend it to anyone that hasn't seen it.

[Rick G]

My biggest complaint with the  current crop of  "Adventure bikes"  is the sheer weight and size . The Weestrom isn't too bad , but I wouldn't even want a DR650  for that service . Too big,too bulky. I Read test , some years back , in CW . I don't remember all the bikes , but there was a Killer 650 , a Buellissies  and a DR 450. The  DR had no trouble keeping up  on the pavement and spanked the  two wheel road graders  a lot ,in the dirt
My old XL350 will keep up on pavement ( it beats the hell out of me doing it ) and runs off and hides in the dirt

[fret not]

Rick, in your signature you list 3 XL 350s, which one do you ride the most?

[artbone]

I really didn't "get" the whole AT genre initially but now find it very interesting. Having watched the TV mini series "Long Way Round" probably had something to do with it.  :) It's entertaining and I'd recommend it to anyone that hasn't seen it.

What I found really ironic about that video was how KTM missed out on the greatest advertising coup ever for adventure bikes when they had it handed to them. I hope whoever made that decision is no longer working for them.

Their excuse was that they didn't think those two actors would be successful but do you think maybe they thought their bikes wouldn't hold up?

[Rikugun]

Yup, in hindsight I'm sure they regard it as their biggest blunder of all time.  :) But it got worse.  :( In 2006 Borman decides to run Dakar and again BMW provide their support by way of the F650RR. Finally, they follow up LWR with Long Way Down and again BMW steps up with their updated GS. KTM rolled the dice and lost big! Maybe BMW felt sorry for them and that's why they sold them Husky?

[Rick G]

Fret , I have a '74 , which I put some work into ,but it needs a top end . Before I got around to it , I found  the '77 , I ride it the most . The
78 was for my son. He lost  interest and it just sits in the shed. Its the cleanest  , new seat cover and  new tyres. I need to sell the '74 and the  '78 . The '74 is legal for AHRA  and I may find an out of state buyer for it.
The '77 has 13 inch shocks , as opposed to the 14 inch stockers  which allows me to manage it with my 29 inch inseam. I'm no longer able to get up on the pegs for very long , so the new shocks help.

[artbone]

Yup, in hindsight I'm sure they regard it as their biggest blunder of all time.  :) But it got worse.  :( In 2006 Borman decides to run Dakar and again BMW provide their support by way of the F650RR. Finally, they follow up LWR with Long Way Down and again BMW steps up with their updated GS. KTM rolled the dice and lost big! Maybe BMW felt sorry for them and that's why they sold them Husky?

After the success for "Long Way Round" BMW probably paid them to use their bikes.

You know how when you try to get non-riders to watch a motorcycle video they're usually not interested at all? I've shown my copy to a lot of non-riders and they almost all loved it and said they would like to do that. Mind you, these are mostly people who have never ridden a motorcycle. I think LWR did as much for Adventure-Touring as "On Any Sunday" did for motorcycle riding in the US.

[Rikugun]

Couldn't agree more.   :) Another bike-centric docudrama that has broad appeal is "Dust To Glory". Bruce Brown's son Dana is the creative force behind the film and it's also very good.  :)