What did you do to your vision today?

Started by sunburnedaz, January 24, 2013, 02:09:20 AM

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sunburnedaz

Flushed the cooling system... again. She still runs really flipping hot but she is running.
1982 Yamaha XZ550 - Almost bone stock
2005 Honda F4i - Nothing stock
98 ZX-6R Track Bike
1998 Chevy truck - AKA recovery truck

QBS


sunburnedaz

#182
Yup. She just runs hot. Rad is not plugged. I temped the whole rad looking for a cold spot too, running about 210 to 220 everywhere on the rad I probed with a thermocouple. Running her a little lean on the coolant mixture (70/30 water/coolant) to help since I never see freezing temps with the bike. I am gonna try a water wetter type additive this week to see how she does with that. She has a 180* thermostat in it thats almost brand new. She has always run this hot even when I rebuilt her back in 09, in the winter she never gets above 1/2 while moving but in the summer she sits around the 7/8ths mark while underway.
1982 Yamaha XZ550 - Almost bone stock
2005 Honda F4i - Nothing stock
98 ZX-6R Track Bike
1998 Chevy truck - AKA recovery truck

js9_20

Mine seems to run cooler with water wetter... 
And, did great in Mojave Desert last September as well.  No temp issues, at all.

js9_20

Still monitoring the relocated R/R temp...  The weather hasn't been as hot lately but, through various riding scenarios, the temp has stayed well below 120f.  Typically its under 100.  I can touch it without burning my hand.

Unfortunately, I don't have any temps recorded from the original location but I know it gets damn hot.    Too hot to touch, that's for sure.

supervision

 clean the terminals on the sender unit, they will make for false reading
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shep1

#186
Hi.
I have 3 running visions thanks to Lou..I had steering head bearing/front wheel bearing replaced.Adjusted valves.Replaced speedo/tach all on black bike.Yellow bike has been a challenge..Cleaned carbs..por-15 the tank.Secured lower fairing as it was not attached from Lou's.Fork brace.Replaced speedo/tach.Lowered front fork tubes an inch..Girl friend found it a little tall. ;D Low compression on back cylinder..Not sure how long bike has sat..Trying to release rings with some oil additives.Runs ok after idle..Red bike is running great but is not on the road..If I cannot get yellow motor to work properly I may transfer the red bike motor to it and repair the other as a back up for both black and yellow bike.We will ride the yellow bike for a little longer to see if comes back.. I replaced 83 to 82 bars on all 3 bikes..Have 3 sets of low bars and clip on's/engine guard/luggage racks not being used..If interested.

sunburnedaz

Quote from: supervision on June 06, 2013, 04:17:40 AM
clean the terminals on the sender unit, they will make for false reading

They are clean and the reading is accurate. I have verified that with both a IR noncontact temp gun and a K-type thermocouple probe. Everywhere on the rad is 210 to 220 like I said this has been going on since 2009. Now when is cool outside say in the 80's and below it will stay right in the middle of the temp gauge going down the road but when its say 110* plus and air temps on the road are pushing 130* its always at 7/8 all the way up to the red mark.

I have cleaned the cooling systems over 8 times (every 6 months or so for 3 years plus a few more random ones), replaced the thermostat, had the raditator boiled out, changed the coolant dozens of times I think at this point, inspected the water pump for issues (none found) and now I am running a water wetter type product in a 70/30 water/coolant mixture, and that combo had knocked about 10* to 15* off the temps. I am starting to think this bike just will not run cool no matter what I do when its 110* plus outside.
1982 Yamaha XZ550 - Almost bone stock
2005 Honda F4i - Nothing stock
98 ZX-6R Track Bike
1998 Chevy truck - AKA recovery truck

Rikugun

Based on my experience I don't understand how Visions make a go of it in hot climates. Mine is much like you describe in that it doesn't like hot weather.  When I first got mine it would act up in hot weather and act very much like what Munkyfistfight describes in his post "High-speed problem". Running in traffic would see the gage at 3/4 and the fan would come on. Rather than dropping the temps any appreciable amount, the fan would merely keep the gage temp climbing further.

Long high speed runs on the highway where it gets plenty of air movement through the radiator wouldn't keep the needle from climbing either. Getting of the highway onto surface streets I noticed it ran very poorly as if not getting fuel. Often it would stall at the first red light and restarting was difficult. Running at a moderate speed for a while would see it eventually "normalize" and become responsive again. Stopping to let it cool off would help as well.

It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is then to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring.  Carl Sagan

jefferson

Just curious, but when you put the new thermostat in did you put the little air bleed jiggler at the top? It has to be at the top or it won't get all the air out.

Jeff

sunburnedaz

Yup drilled the hole out and made sure that the notch in the gasket lines up with the hole.  :)
1982 Yamaha XZ550 - Almost bone stock
2005 Honda F4i - Nothing stock
98 ZX-6R Track Bike
1998 Chevy truck - AKA recovery truck

sunburnedaz

#191
Quote from: Rikugun on June 06, 2013, 07:22:36 PM
Based on my experience I don't understand how Visions make a go of it in hot climates. Mine is much like you describe in that it doesn't like hot weather.  When I first got mine it would act up in hot weather and act very much like what Munkyfistfight describes in his post "High-speed problem". Running in traffic would see the gage at 3/4 and the fan would come on. Rather than dropping the temps any appreciable amount, the fan would merely keep the gage temp climbing further.

Long high speed runs on the highway where it gets plenty of air movement through the radiator wouldn't keep the needle from climbing either. Getting of the highway onto surface streets I noticed it ran very poorly as if not getting fuel. Often it would stall at the first red light and restarting was difficult. Running at a moderate speed for a while would see it eventually "normalize" and become responsive again. Stopping to let it cool off would help as well.

This is exactly what I see happening, I am about to hit up a custom rad shop to see if they can build me a new rad with enough cooling capacity for the desert. With the following changes I have had some success keeping it running here in the 120* temps. Change to a 16 psi cap, cleaning the cooling system to within an inch of its life, using a water wetter product and running the cooling mixture at 70/30 water to coolant.
1982 Yamaha XZ550 - Almost bone stock
2005 Honda F4i - Nothing stock
98 ZX-6R Track Bike
1998 Chevy truck - AKA recovery truck

jefferson

I would be very tempted to do an oil cooler with things running that warm.

Jeff

sunburnedaz

Quote from: jefferson on June 06, 2013, 07:47:23 PM
I would be very tempted to do an oil cooler with things running that warm.

Jeff

I am debating between that and a bigger rad. I am worried about over cooling the oil in the cold months.
1982 Yamaha XZ550 - Almost bone stock
2005 Honda F4i - Nothing stock
98 ZX-6R Track Bike
1998 Chevy truck - AKA recovery truck

jefferson

#194
I would do it and then fashion some kind of cover for it to block the flow of air when it cools off. It would be interesting also to find out how hot the crankcase is running. Somewhere around the drain plug should show a pretty accurate temp that would relate to the oil.

Jeff

jefferson

Another thing you might consider is replacing the straight sections of radiator hose with aluminum tubing. This would give the coolant a little more surface area to shed some heat. The ideal thing would be to have the entire hose formed out of aluminum with all the bends. There would be more places for leaks to occur, but the heat shedding ability might be worth it.
You might be able to confirm what I found on my bike. The rear cyl. runs about 20 degrees cooler than the front. I put this down to a higher flow rate of coolant through the rear cyl. You would need to measure on the side of each head away from the cam chain so you are actually measuring the side with coolant behind the metal.

Jeff

Tiger

An over ride switch for the rad' fan does help...it is an easy but effective mod ;)

                        8) ....... TIGER .......  8)
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming HOOOOYA lets go again baby !!!!!!

'82 Vision, Pearl Orange finish, lots of up-grades!!!

QBS

In October '99, during  a 5000 mile round trip from Houston TX to SoCal, I was in the Mohave Desert with an estimated temp. of 105 F.  The '83 V was heavily loaded for long term touring and camping.  The odometer was showing approx. 70k miles at the time.  Because of the isolated environment, excellent road condition, and just because I could do it, I took the speed up to an indicated 9k rpm and held it there. The temp. gauge started out at about 2/3s of its range.  I continually monitored the gauges' position.  As I suspected it would, the gauge slowly began to show increasing engine temp.  After about 6 miles into the test the needle finally touched the red zone.  I immediately dropped down to an indicated 50 mph and kept on going.  The needle immediately stopped climbing and then slowly dropped back to to its' previous 2/3 position.  It took about 20 minutes to get there.  The bike never showed any signs of distress.  The bike cooling system was and remains OEM with the exception of replacing 2 water pump seals.

I have found the stock V cooling system to be completely adequate and trouble free all during my 29 years of ownership and operation and have always considered it to be one of the most trouble and maintenance free systems on the bike.  Never the less, I will say that hot weather and heavy traffic can make for drivability concerns.  However, the bike has never actually failed to run under such conditions.

As an aside, one of the symptoms of blown head gaskets, among other things, is hot running.

pinholenz

There was an interesting discussion recently about the  benefits of waterless - no boil - coolants. If you missed that post, have a look at:
http://ridersofvision.net/rovforum/index.php?topic=14719.msg134674#msg134674
Only one '82.5  eXtreme Zen 550

sunburnedaz

I got an interesting result last night. Leave the house at 715 pm on a cold bike, first time she was started yesterday. Do a ten mile ride to the mall to meet for a coffee date. Speed 85+, ambient temps 106 to 108*, RPMS 6.5 to 7.5K gets to 7/8ths really quick and stays there.

Ok date goes well and we end up talking till midnight. Say goodnight. Start the bike and let it warm up to 1/2 mark while gearing up. Run home, take the same route but now the ambient temp is in the 80* to 90* range, speeds 85+, RPMS 6.5 - 7.5K, temp drops as I get on the freeway back to the 1/2 mark then stays between 1/2 and 2/3s even while doing 6.5 to 7.5K. Only hits 7/8ths when I am sitting stopped at the light to turn to go to my neighborhood.

After all of the cleaning, burping, changing the cap to 16psi, putting coolant additives in, and running it 70/30 water coolant I think she will be fine this summer. I am also convinced that the cooling system was not meant for the extreme heat of living in phoenix with temps regularly seeing 110+. At this point its going to be a new custom rad, lots of custom rad shops in phoenix go figure, or some kind oil cooler.

TL;DR
Speed 85+, RPMS 6.5 to 7.5K, air temp 106 - 108 = 7/8ths gauge

Speed 85+, RPMS 6.5 to 7.5K, air temp 80 - 90 = 1/2 to 2/3rds gauge
1982 Yamaha XZ550 - Almost bone stock
2005 Honda F4i - Nothing stock
98 ZX-6R Track Bike
1998 Chevy truck - AKA recovery truck