Author Topic: Very low on power  (Read 10140 times)

Rick G

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Re: Very low on power
« Reply #40 on: July 03, 2013, 01:56:52 AM »
Try the link to Leathers  site , he did extensive work with TCI boxes.
Rick G
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cvincer

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Re: Very low on power
« Reply #41 on: July 03, 2013, 03:24:04 AM »
Assuming 1 cylinder is firing,  my solution (if you don't have a spare TCI) to deciding if it's the TCI, or pick up sensor, is below.

You just need a couple of bits of wire to connect the 4 prong connector to the TCI.

Obviously have both spark plugs out of the engine when you do this.

« Last Edit: July 03, 2013, 08:26:21 PM by cvincer »

Rikugun

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Re: Very low on power
« Reply #42 on: July 03, 2013, 08:01:33 AM »
Thanks cvincer, very practical diagnostic test.  :)

tig5 - just for clarification, the trigger coils I referenced are called sensors in the drawing supplied by cvincer. I'd guess it's more common for the TCI to go bad and if you had a spare, swapping them is easy to do. Short of that, cvincer's test should do the trick to isolate the problem as being either the rear cylinder's trigger coil or the circuitry in the TCI responsible for the rear cylinder. Just  don't try to run the engine with the triggers coils crossed.   :o  :D
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is then to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring.  Carl Sagan

pinholenz

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Re: Very low on power
« Reply #43 on: July 03, 2013, 04:21:17 PM »
Happy to test your TCI on my XZ if you want to post the it to me. I also have a spare TCI that I recovered from an XZ400. I understand that the XZ400 TCI has a slightly different power band but otherwise works OK. I will be testing this in the weekend to see what happens. If its OK, I am also happy to post it to you for testing. See my PM with contact details etc. Cheers.
Only one '82.5  eXtreme Zen 550

tig5

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Re: Very low on power
« Reply #44 on: July 03, 2013, 10:38:02 PM »
Thanks guys, I'll try the test this afternoon and report back. Thanks for your contact details John, I'll possibly be in touch!

tig5

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Re: Very low on power
« Reply #45 on: July 04, 2013, 01:26:52 AM »
So...

I made the assumption that the yellow and red wires were the ones I was meant to switch and the black wire was to stay in its original place?

By crossing the yellow and red wires over the result stayed the same. Front plug sparked, rear plug didn't. According to cvincers doc that would imply my TCI is boned?
I peeled off the glue the PO had put on the unit and took it apart. There is evidence of a little solder work from one of the 6 pin pins but nothing appeared loose. There is also some melting of the outer plastic case where the 2 metal brackets that are screwed to the circuit board slot into the case.
I understand the TCI's are a bit hard to come by. Anyone got one for sale?

pinholenz

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Re: Very low on power
« Reply #46 on: July 04, 2013, 07:52:23 AM »
This is the link to the TCI information page that Rik G refers to. Meaningless stuff to me but to an electronics repair person I guess this is saying that parts can be replaced and TCI's repaired. Know anyone like that down Wellywood way?

http://www.jetav8r.com/Vision/TCIRebuild/TCI_Rebuild.html
Only one '82.5  eXtreme Zen 550

nzvision

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Re: Very low on power
« Reply #47 on: July 04, 2013, 03:14:08 PM »
for eletrical stuff like that i would go to advance electrical done on petone foreshore.   they have always been pretty good when i have dealt with them.   
please start, please start.  Yippeee I won the lottery. my vision started.

pinholenz

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Re: Very low on power
« Reply #48 on: July 04, 2013, 08:57:35 PM »
Hi Tig5,
I have just tested my XZ400 TCI unit on the 550 and it works fine. If you would like me to post it to you so that you can check if your TCI is the source of your problem, Text, Phone or PM with your details and I will get it in to the post for you. All the best.
Only one '82.5  eXtreme Zen 550

sunburnedaz

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Re: Very low on power
« Reply #49 on: July 04, 2013, 09:19:33 PM »
HA I didnt know that he was in NZ. That might make shipping a bit pricey, take up pinholenz on his offer for sure.
1982 Yamaha XZ550 - Almost bone stock
2005 Honda F4i - Nothing stock
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QBS

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Re: Very low on power
« Reply #50 on: July 05, 2013, 06:49:58 PM »
I have experienced failure on two different TCI boxes.  In both cases the bike would start and idle as normal.  In both cases, when the tach reached 2k rpm the engine would loose one cylinder.  I think it was the back one but I'm not certain.  The engine would rev beyond 2k, but just on one cylinder.  Then, as soon as the tach dropped back to 2k, the lost cylinder would return and the bike would idle as normal.

tig5

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Re: Very low on power
« Reply #51 on: July 28, 2013, 12:43:25 AM »
So...

I replaced the TCI and took the bike for a couple of short rides and everything appeared to be running great. I then took the bike for some slightly longer rides (only 10-15 minutes worth) and started experiencing cut-out of the rear cylinder again. If I stopped the bike and left it for 10 minutes it would start up again fine and ride well for another 10-15 minutes then the problem would return.

However it also seemed like the battery was beginning to flatten on me. It became a bit more difficult to start. I hooked my multimeter up to the terminals. It showed about 12.9v which then dropped to about 12.6v with the engine running and didn't really change with an increase of revs. Does this mean my stator is cooked? If my stator is fried would that result in a drop in voltage and the cut-out symptoms I'm experiencing? My other thought is that it could be the HT lead which is now a bit shorter and virtually sits on top of the cylinder head. I'm wondering if it is heating up and failing.

nzvision

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Re: Very low on power
« Reply #52 on: July 28, 2013, 03:10:57 AM »
if you havent already check the plug from the stator to the reg.   i changed mine and it worked great for a while (but then put a connector strip in and now its not as good.  but thats more user error i suspect.
please start, please start.  Yippeee I won the lottery. my vision started.

Prophet Of Doom

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Re: Very low on power
« Reply #53 on: July 28, 2013, 07:53:34 AM »

QBS

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Re: Very low on power
« Reply #54 on: July 28, 2013, 01:55:49 PM »
Just off idle, a good charging system should show at least 13.2 vdc.  To me 12.6 vdc indicates a failed stator.

tig5

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Re: Very low on power
« Reply #55 on: July 29, 2013, 11:56:36 PM »
Thanks for the diagram Roro.

Where it asks: Count the # of DIFFERENT coloured wires coming from the RR not including the yellow, I followed the path of 4 or less because I included the 3 white wires. Was this a mistake?

Anyway, at idle with the multimeter black wire connected to battery + and the multimeter red wire connected to RR wire RED, I get a reading of about -0.08v at idle.

When I connect the red multimeter lead to battery - and the black multimeter lead to RR wire BLACK I get a reading of 4.7v at idle.

The flow chart suggest I have a bad connection from negative lead from RR to battery -

I checked connections including ground wire to engine case and didnt find any problems. The "Best Solution" suggested was to "connect RR ground straight to battery - with an extra lead. I connected RR wire BLACK straight to battery - and this didn't seem to change any readings.

Battery reads 13.0v with key off and 12.7v at idle and through rev range.

fret not

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Re: Very low on power
« Reply #56 on: July 30, 2013, 12:36:23 AM »
It sounds like you have either screwed up wiring or a defunct charging system.  Have you checked output directly from the stator while the motor is running?  If you have the proper output then you have a failed Regulator Rectifier.  If the stator output is good you still may have a failed RR unit.  Follow the diagnostic sequence for the charging system.
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Rikugun

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Re: Very low on power
« Reply #57 on: July 30, 2013, 07:05:30 AM »
Quote
Battery reads 13.0v with key off and 12.7v at idle and through rev range.
That's the most important part of the entire post right there. I agree with fret testing stator output seems like a practical next step.  ;) Some would argue continuity test the stator windings but a dynamic ac voltage test will cut to the chase.  ;) If the readings are not up to snuff you'll have your answer. You can then go back and figure out if the stator is shorted or open (more likely) but either way it's dead.  :P

Go to the bottom of page 2 on the chart where it says "Switch the multimeter AC-Voltage (Range at least to 100 Vac)....."and start there. Disconnect the stator harness from the R/R and probe the stator wires there as outlined in the test procedure. If the plug connector or wires or corroded or melted that's bad.  :(

The flow chart is great but it presupposes you have knowledge of the equipment used and the tests being outlined and a good grasp on theory. Then it methodically takes you by the hand step by step. If you have the tools, knowledge and understanding you know the short cuts to quickly get the answer so the chart becomes unnecessary. If you are a beginner the flow chart can be overwhelming.

The "counting wires" part is trying to ascertain if you have an excitable field or permanent magnet alternator type - yours is the magnet type. The tests that yielded negative .08 and 4.7 at idle - to be honest I don't know what you were doing there... ???  :o  :) It sounds like you may have confused the R/R diode test with a running voltage test? Did any smoke escape from the meter!?  :D

« Last Edit: July 30, 2013, 07:08:48 AM by Rikugun »
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is then to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring.  Carl Sagan

tig5

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Re: Very low on power
« Reply #58 on: July 30, 2013, 09:12:18 PM »
I tested the white stator wires with my multimeter on VAC 200 mode. All 3 wires showed between 4.5 and 5.5, so I guess it's fried  :'(

Any kiwis have a spare?

nzvision

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Re: Very low on power
« Reply #59 on: July 30, 2013, 10:19:42 PM »
hey tig.   i may have one.  but i have no idea of the condtion.   its not in a bike at the moment (so havent tested it) and dont know if theres a way to test it? 

failing that roro may have one i think i read.   
please start, please start.  Yippeee I won the lottery. my vision started.

 

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