Vision Tracker

[Rikugun]

That's a good choice focusing on the aesthetics for now.  An important factor in any project is to create something pleasing to the builders eye. That is a sharp HD BTW.

POD - I think Bobby summed it up pretty well - the evidence is all over this forum going back to day one. Thanks BDC  :D

If you want specifics I feel these carbs have way too many passageways to accomplish what other carbs from this period can do far better with considerably simpler designs. A myriad of passages and cross drillings make the various circuits sluggish. Without an accel pump this bike would be un-ridable. Even then a factory bandaid fix of vacuum flapper and little filter thingy were required to elevate fueling to marginally acceptable. At their best, Vision carbs are far from "crisp" fueling devices. With neglect, this design is inherently prone to clogging. Cleaning (compared to other designs) can be a nightmare. Manufacturing costs I would imagine were considerably higher than traditional Japanese carbs of the day. Once the V was done Yamaha never brought the carbs back for further development on other models. Comparing them to Webers is an insult to Webers. Need I go on!?  :D  :D

Having said all that I accept the inherent flaws (carbs and otherwise) this model has. I'll always stick up for them when called upon but on this forum we all know the truth - they can be challenging. The struggle working through problems is a big part of their charm for me. Not only is successfully sorting the bike immensely satisfying, once sorted it is capable, versatile and fun to ride. It never fails to put a smile on my face and that's all that matters really.   :)

[per_w_aberg]

Thanks for the honest opinions on carbs. The day i get to them I think of going for CV carbs. Looks like a safe bet, simple construction and easy to set up, or? Since I'm building new exhaust It would seem a manifold for single/double side/top draft carbs is something that could just happen.

[The Prophet of Doom]

I brought it up particularly because many people seem to expect the carbs to be perfect after 30 years of neglect without bothering to even replace seals and o-rings, without bothering to use the factory required calibration equipment and then call crap when it doesn't work properly.

It's a serious question for me because I have Glyns old Weber IDF and manifold sitting on my bench.  So far I'm not impressed by the Webers build quality, but mine are made in Spain and apparently Italian ones are far better.  They were also just as gunked up with perished rubber as any Mikuni I've seen, though a bit easier to clean due to the simpler design.  They seem to have pretty much identical circuits, including an accelerator pump, though more simply laid out due to the larger size and a shared float bowl.

Glyn reported stumble free running, but at a lower performance level.  I want the bike to have higher performance than stock, not worse, so I have to decide whether to put time into the Weber to try and make them go better or put some time into Mikunis.  Either way will require a FULL rebuild.  If I go the Mikuni route I'd like to go with Pods as I love the sound. I understand how a flapper reduces induction noise, I don't understand why the Mikuni would need one to meter properly where a Weber can do without it.

I'm getting ahead of myself - I have a head to rebuild, and not even on the bike I want to be working on :-(.



I can't make sense of the often quoted reasoning that the flapper improves velocity at low RPM

[per_w_aberg]

Just remembered my old BMW boxer with CV carbs. These bikes are very sensitive to carb sync. I tried fiddling with it myself when the bike ran like crap but couldn't get it right. A pro with the right equipment got it running 100% better. I cant see why this isn't equally important on any multi carbed engine, like the Vision. Syncing carbs i feel is sometimes neglected and it takes some gear to do it right.

[Rick G]

every one seems to think that some other carb will be better. They find a bike that has been siting for who knows how long and expect it to run fine  after dumping some carb cleaner in the tank . I've said this many times in the past , someone has gotten much of the good out of the bike , your going to have to put the good back! That includes the  a proper rebuild of the carb system.

[per_w_aberg]

10-4 Rick! I'm lagging for Christmas but on a trip out to my build shed today i spotted the paper that's been laying on the bench the last weeks. Spot on! Mary Christmas Y'all

[per_w_aberg]

We've got progress! The tank is ready; A giant leap for a man! This build has got me in contact with hidden resources in my small town. A seasoned tank builder with skills has hacked the Yamaha tank from previous post. Behold a custom built vision tank. Why bother you ask? Because I can! What else, yes my killer back light. It's got back/break/#plate light. I aimed for a accelerometer triggered break light that triggers by deceleration preferably even from releasing the throttle, no hand or feet needed. Though a sweet idea I would have to turn to the dark side of electronics. It's not expensive but a fair bite to chew design wise. Let me know when you've got your ready. I'm using proper 9-36V regulator for the leds. Tending the shaft drive rubber thing with pine based soft soap was a success but the recommended glycerol didn't ad anything. When will the fun ever stop?

[The Prophet of Doom]

That tank looks badass.
I use CRC 808 silicon spray on the newly cleaned rubber.  It works amazingly well.  Apparently soaking in ATF or even linseed oil is good for the same thing also.  Sometimes I use a little carb cleaner (briefly) first to scour the top dried out surface off the rubber.

[fret not]

What is your solution for holding the rear of the tank to the frame?  And where does the fuel petcock fit?

I look forward to seeing the completed bike and all it's custom features, like the tail / brake light / license light and plate holder.

[per_w_aberg]

Thanks POD. Your my mod god here so I'm glad to have you by my side. I like to throw in a warning on silicon. Parts contaminated with silicon are very hard to get cleaned an repainted. I've heard enough horror stories of paint jobs disasters for this reason. That's why I stay away from S anywhere when ever possible. For the tank back mount its just a pin through a hole in a welded on sturdy ear that i will enlarge to fit a rubber bushing. The pic might be confusing since  I moved the shock mount to below the frame bracket. There's thin padding on the frame to. I trust the guy, he's been building lots of tanks. 10 points for spotting the missing petcock, there is none. I'm going green on this one. Well the truth is I don't know where to put it yet in relationship to the carbs so we'll do that later. The tank is actually slightly to high in the front for the lines to flow but there's now only about 15mm space between the filler hole and the tunnel so the design is stretched to the limit.

Later

[per_w_aberg]

I finaly  got my workspace sorted :)

[The Prophet of Doom]

Good reminder on silicone and paint. I do try to be careful - I don't paint much but the same warning applies to powder.  No disasters so far.

BTW Did you realise that you can add up to 7 Images per post.  You don't need to chop them up and paste them together.

[Rikugun]

If not 2 petcocks then a crossover may be needed based on the tank shape? Tank looks good but I see a lot of splash back when refueling with so little clearance at the neck.

[fret not]

Per, your bike is starting to look pretty good!  Like your avatar, no?

[per_w_aberg]

There seems to be as many ways to mount a fiber glass seat as there are builders. I wrapped my mind around it and came up with this idea. The thing is I want a sealed compartment for electronics under the seat and have got some pans to be welded in. I think I got something. I taped plastic tubes cut in half on the sub frame, fitted the seat in position and filled the gap with fiber glass filler. It won't win any contests I guess but it will easy removable and stay in place. Inspired by this I also made a bracket and filled some mounting nuts in there. Now i don't have to drill holes in the seat :)

[per_w_aberg]

Fret nut: In a distant feature there i color. It's a bit blurry and I'm in the confusion phase right now. Maybe Big Bad Orange, the color of choice on many Detroit muscle cars? Maybe panted wheels risking a non race candy-pop look? The frame is going to be a dark grey, that's 80% certain. Mate paint is about 90% certain. The tank stripe on the avatar was a attempt to tweak the appearance since that rendition had a funny tank. Now I will go for pained tank sides flat track old school style.

[per_w_aberg]

What would you suggest to do a hard core slim down of the electricals? Think enduro bikes. Side stand, and neutral indicators can go. Was there some special around blinkers?  Do you really need any control lights. Here you don't need control lights if blinkers are visible (bar end), cool! M-unit, how much space does it save?

[The Prophet of Doom]

I've got an m-unit - it's a great pice of kit.  About the size of a deck of cards (much smaller than it looks in the pictures), and eliminates all relays incl flasher.  Add the M-button and you can use a single wire to bring signal back to the control box.  Either way, you would need to rewire your switch gear (not a huge job) or use the very nice motogadget buttons.  I ended up re-purposing some of mine - ie the press to pass also swaps high/low and turns lights on/off.

M-unit includes an alarm, and some cool pulse flashing and brake light strobing, self cancelling (but on time, not distance).  Add the m-lock and you don't even need a key switch, just a RFID tag sewn to your glove or helmet. 

I figured that the m-unit is different enough to make most of the stock loom redundant so it's all getting replaced with new wire and waterproof connectors.

I like having idiot lights, so I'm routing all those to a microprocessor and using 3 tri-colour LEDs, one to cycle through any idiot conditions, one for volts, and one for engine temp.  I've mounted these on the headlight.

The m-unit doesn't save any room as such, as it's just replacing tiny relays scattered around the bike and most of the fuses, but it sure makes everything nicer.  Everyone I've talked to with one of these rates it very highly.  This is no piece of chinese junk - it's as high a build quality as anything I've ever seen.

[per_w_aberg]

Thanks POD for the update on the m-unit. So you have a computer on your bike? That's awesome! What kind is it? This update is on the seat pan.  The pan is 4 mm alu and the padding is 2 layers of sleeping pad and the mounts came out perfect with relief on the fiber glass when tightening the screws  The whole seat weights in at 2.8 kg which i unracy but about the same as the stock seat. I'm doing the upholstery, it's going to be a thriller :-\

[The Prophet of Doom]

Nice looking seat pan

It's just a tiny little micro, not a full blown desktop PC or anything but I can plug it into my lappy if I need to capture from it.

Currently I have a Arduino compatible called a Ruggeduino http://ruggedcircuits.com/html/ruggeduino.html  They are only $40 and handle the LED indicators no worries, and I have a whole bunch of logging and analysis I'd like to add at some point. 

My plan was to move to another compatible called Macchina http://rechargecar.com/macchina which will add OBD2 interface and support more sensors / more memory, but that's on hold at the moment - they are a bit costly.