No Sparky

[mshowe]

1983 12k miles.  Of course, I've had electrical issues over the years but not this one. 

What should I check first?  Any help is appreciated - I'd like to ride it this summer  :)

Thank you!

[JBEVARDOS]

Check  all power and grounds, ignition switch and the good ole...tci unit.

                                                                                      John

[fret not]

Can you clarify?  Does the starter spin the motor?  Have you tested for voltage when cranking? 10.5V or less will cause NO SPARK when cranking.  This seems to be a built in feature of our ignition systems.

[jefferson]

To back up Fret not, you have to have a good battery and connections. If the voltage drops too low you will not get a spark. A big part of that problem is likely oil getting into the starter and gumming things up. The starter sits below the oil level and has an inadequate seal on the nose of the starter. Contact surfaces in the starter will need to be cleaned and shined up as well as putting a new seal in the nose of the starter. Start with the easy stuff first. Charge the battery fully and have it load tested. Clean and shine up all connections of the large battery cables. You might try starting the bike with a jumper to a car battery without the car running and see if it starts then. Maybe even try starting with it hooked to a battery charger. Those 2 options should keep the voltage over the sparking threshold.

[mshowe]

Thank you for your replies.  I never thought of the starter, since it seems like it's engaging properly.  so yes, it's cranking just not starting and it's not starting because there is no spark.

Where do I meter the voltage during cranking?  At the starter?

[jefferson]

Check the voltage at the battery while cranking and also note the voltage before cranking. A good battery should show 12.6 volts.

[mshowe]

I have above 12 volts when cracking.  Shouldn't there also be a single spark shortly after turning the key on?  Either way, no spark.  Will a faulty r/r cause such behavior?  Should I take starter off?  I rebuilt this starter several years ago.  Seems like. I should still get the single pop on key turn.  I am out of my league despite historically changing all electrical components.  It's run great for at least 4 years.  Any help is much appreciated.

[jefferson]

No need to rebuild the starter as your voltage is staying high enough to fire. A r/r doesn't have anything to do with the ignition system. Have you had the connections undone on the ecu and wires from the stator. The connection from the stator will plug into the ecu as it is the same plug and will fry the ecu. Double check those connections.

[Walt_M.]

Sounds like a bad TCI to me. If you have an original you must remember that it is 40 years old and they will fail. You might try to find a replacement but it will also be 40 years old. Somebody on here got an Ignitech not too long ago, pretty sure it worked but I would have to find the post. The post is just down the page and it was cheaper than I thought at $170.

[briandneville]

Walt refers to my post from last fall.  I have added to it FYI

[mshowe]

I went back and read the posts and I hadn't checked voltage as I was cranking it so I may have lied about the results.  As I'm cranking it and with jumper cables hook to another 12 volt it drops to 11.5.  a problem?

[jefferson]

To clarify, fully charge the battery and see what the voltage drops to when cranking.

Did you get a it running when hooked up to the other battery or still no spark? Was there any popping that would indicate some ignition? You should still get spark at 11.5 volts.

Did the wires from the stator connect to the r/r or to the ecu? If the ignition pickups are wired to the ecu and there is no spark then the ecu is likely dead.

Have you ever had this bike running and what has been done to it since it last ran?

[mshowe]

Yes, ran great for the past 4 years.  I haven't done any electrical work on it lately.  At the end of last year, if I remember correctly, I was driving it to the garage and it died.   I thought "oh, that's odd".   Tried to restart with no luck.    Got around to diagnosing this year (or maybe over the winter) far enough to see that I have no spark.  So, I have not done anything (yet) with stator wires.  Thank you for confirming that you think I should see spark at 11.5 v while cranking. 

So, no, have not got it running when hooked up to another battery.  No spark with fully charged battery or any other battery.  11.5 at battery when cranking.   

I do have an extra starter but I'll have to pull it apart to see if I rebuilt it yet.  You'd think I'd document something like that.  But, doesn't sound like maybe it's the starter at this point.  It has a Rick's stator on it, but it's been on there for probably 5-6 years.

As always, I appreciate you'alls brain and experience.

[jefferson]

There are a number of switches that can kill the ignition. Sidestand and clutch switch, but I don't remember exactly what conditions they do it. Would be worth cutting them out of the loop. There is also a rev limiter wire that goes to the ecu that cuts one cyl. Always good to get rid of it.

[fret not]

MSHOWE,  do you have a volt/ohm meter?  You need one. 
#1 make sure the above mentioned switches are functioning (unplug them  from the wiring harness and test for function / continuity).

This is always a process of elimination: eliminate the possible issues one by one.  So make a list of the possibilities and check them off as you go.  Eventually you will arrive at the problem, THEN you can fix it.  So, list the 'cut out switches', battery, ignition switch, wiring connections, etc., and eventually you will come to whatever the problem is.  I start with what I consider the most likely problems, then go through the easiest problems, and finally the other possible problems. 

[mshowe]

Yes, I have a multimeter.

I will have to research clutch switch.  Already checked sidestand.

Pretty sure I already cut the revlimiter wire also.  Years ago.

Thanks for your  assistance and input.

[mshowe]

ok, back to trying to get this to work.  I believe I have eliminated switch (clutch, side stand.   Does anyone have a known/working TCI ignitor?  Or, I believe I read of an after market option.  The fact that I don't see a single spart when I turn on the ignition seems to be a problem.  Of course, no spart when cranking it either.

thank you

[Walt_M.]

If you've read through the previous posts and still haven't gotten an Ignitech TCI, I certainly can't help you.