Running HOT.

[Free-Vision]

I took my Vision out for the maiden voyage today.  I got half way around the block when I noticed the temp needle was boarderline into the red zone.  The fan was working and the radiator was full of coolent.  I was not driving excessively slowly or at high rpms. The needle held steady at this temp the whole way home, at the top of the green scale but never in the red.

My questions are:  Is this a normal running temp?
If not, can I remove the thermostatic valve to solve my problem?

I am not going to be riding in the cold so I don't care if it takes longer to warm up.  My concern is that with no thermostatic valve, the coolent may take the path of least resistance through the bypass hose.  If this happens I will have to block the bypass somehow or divert it so that it pumps through the radiator also.  

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[Free-Vision]

Also:

I looked on PartsFish and their price for the thermostat is $40.  But on page 4 of the discussion forum there is a question posted on a Vision cooling problem.  Lucky stated that a thermostat cost $7.00.  So Lucky, if you could inform me as to where you got such a deal I would really appreciate it.

Also, how can I tell if my water pump is bad?

[Lucky]

Listed on the Replacement Parts page of my site http://www.geocities.com/lucky_142

Thermostat: Stant  part #13758
approx $7.00

you should be able to get it at any parts auto store.
the part # is from last year, so on the outside chance that they changed the part # all they have to do is cross referance it.
I'll take a look on the web to see if i can find out what car it fits (easier to cross ref that way)
--Lucky

[johnkadner]

i am not sure if this would work on the vision, but in a car, you can grab the hose that comes out of the waterpump, and if it isn't hot, the pump ain't pumpin.

[Lucky]

another car trick, (i haven't tried/checked this on the Vision) is to remove the rad cap while the bike is cold, then start the bike and watch the coolant flow in the radiator as it warms up.  when the thermostat opens you should see an obvious increase in coolant flow in the radiator.

if the coolant level is a little low in the radiator the above test is easier to do.  also there are a few things to consider, just the act of the thermostat opening will cause some movement of coolant. (heat rises) so you will have to use a little "horse sense" here.

also as to what john refered to feeling the hose, i have also seen some vehicles where you could actually feel the coolant flowing when you squeeze the hose.

Lastly, i have noticed that when my carbs were out of tune, that is running lean, the temp guage would normally sit on the line between the green and red.  once the carb was properly tuned, the "normal" range for the needle is approx straight up & down. only on the hottest days does the needle rise above that.

hope some of this helps!
--Lucky

[Rick G]

Hi lucky, The Stant thermostat is for a  80's  Chev 4 cylinder  I took my vision T'stat into Welle auto supply on central in Mpls MN  and they brought a selection out,  I've put 12,000 miles on the V with the Stand t'stat in it , it works fine it is the correct heat range. The only differance is there is no air bleed valve at the top , so you need to chech your coolant level after the first couple of rides to make sure it is "burped"  YIC's price of $40. turned me off!

[QQBS]

FreeV:  Did you vent the coolent system when you last filled it?  The "T" hose fitting that also provides fan temp sensor data contains what appears to be a bolt screwed into it.  This is a vent hole.  When filling the cooling system this hole must be open to allow the escape of air that would otherwise be trapped and therefore prevent complete system filling.  Oftentimes corrosion will freeze the bolt in place. use the flats on the side of the "T" to back up your bolt removal wrench.

Remove the radiator cap and fill the system through the radiator cap hole with 50-50 distilled water and non silicate antifreeze.  Then replace the radiator cap and the vent hole bolt.  NOTE:  Before installing the vent hole bolt, wrap its' threads with teflon tape to eliminate future corrosion related removal grief.

Vs normally run all over the green zone of the temp gauge, depending on ambient temp, traffic conditions, and operating speed.  They should never need to be run without a thermostat to avoid overheating.  Overheating is indicated by the temp gauge when its' needle touches the black demarction zone that seperates the green and red zones.  However, only under the most difficult operating scenerios will they approach the black seperation mark.  My '83 has only touched this mark twice in the last 83k miles.  Once, after a long sustained run in the Mohave Desert (ambient temp: 103F), very heavily loaded at 8300 RPM and once in 100F traffic when the fan fuse had blown out. If your bike went straight to that position and stayed there, something isn't right.  Removal of the thermostat might solve the problem.  But that action is at best a very poor band aid.  Check the operation of your thermostat with boiling water before you buy a new one or decide to operate without one.  Cheers.

[Stormdancer]

Further note on removal of thermostats -

It's not always going to make your vehicle run cooler.  My X1/9 would overheat unpredictably and suddenly, if the thermostat was removed, as it's very presence controled the routing of water.  No idea if the same potential exists in the Visions, of course, but it's something to be aware of.

Related - I'm not sure the fan on mine works... any easy short-the-wires tests to check function of fan, relay and thermostat, here?  I'm going on the first run of greater than 20 miles this weekend, and I'd like to be safe there.

Glad to hear the info about the 'burping', too - I'll have to check that on mine.

[QQBS]

You said that you're not sure if your fan is correctly operative.  Please note that the fan doesn't come on until the temp gauge needle is at least 3/4 over toward the red zone.  If you haven't ever seen the needle that far over then you shouldn't have expected the fan to come on.

 On '83's and '82's, the fan is controlled by a relay that is powered by an unswitched positive feed. (In '83's this positive source is protected by an inline fuse,not shown in the '82 Haynes manual wiring diagram, physically located in the steering head area.)  In both years the relay is controlled by a switched negative feed.  This negative source is controlled by the Thermoswitch in the cooling system vent "T".

An easy way to test for proper fan operation is to start the bike and let it idle for a long time.  Monitor the temp gauge carefully.  Eventually the gauge should move over to the fan start zone at which time the fan should come on.  If the needle is about to touch the black green/red demarcation line turn off the bike and let it cool.  The fan should have come by then.  After the bike has cooled, apply a grounded jumper lead to the wire screwed on to the top of the cooling system vent "T".  If no operation is found, check to see if the fuse is good (assuming that '82's are fused).  If there is a fuse and it is good, remove the relay from the circuit and jump positive power to the fan side of the circuit.  Since the fan has its own ground, it should run. If it does, the problem lies either in the relay or the thermoswitch.  If the fan doesn't run, either the fan motor is bad or the fan ground is bad.  Both of these scenerios are remote.  Cheers.

[jasonm.]

the fan is turned on by switching the ground side of the fan. Throught the T-stat switch.

[Stormdancer]

Thanks for the info about the fan!  The temp's never gone above about halfway, which explains why it's never come on for me.  I still want to test it out, though - better to know now, than in traffic somewhere!

[qQBS]

JasonM: As per the Haynes manual fig. 8.13 Wiring diagram-1982 USA models, the ground for the electric fan relay(and thus its operation) is controlled by the thermostatic switch.  The electric fan motor ground is unswitched.  Cheers.