Can anyone help?

[Rob_OS23]

I wish I knew what terminology to use when talking about problems, I just don't know how to describe sounds etc.

My bike is not running right now. ?It ran right into December last year, but has not started since then. ?It never stopped working on me, just didn't start the next time I tried. ?So anyway, here's what's going on.

First of all, trying to start.....
Well, this started last year. ?Hit the start button, and the starter does not turn the engine, just spins, and clacks loudly. ?You can stop, and try again, and it will catch, and begin turning the engine over. ?Do it again, and it may not catch that time....I am not mechanically gifted, but my assumption is starter clutch??? ?My starter has always been funny, kinda slow, but used to get the job done. ?Didn't seem right that it turned so slow, I assumed that it was the starter seal problem.

Next, when I do get the starter to turn the engine, nothing! ?You can hear it turning over, and hear the put put put put put from the mufflers, but it does not even begin to fire up. ?I had it up on the center stand today, and was trying to get it going. ?I happened to look down at the center stand, and saw gas running down it. ?Seemed to be dripping quite a bit, but only when trying to start. ?I think it was coming out of the engine at the fittings where the exhaust goes into??? ?Would that be because it is sucking gas in, and not using it, and it is really flooded?

Anyways, bottom line, it will not start. ?Here's all that I tried today....checked the spark plugs, they were both wet. ?Let them dry out, and nothing. ?I checked them about a week ago, and they were both sparking then, so did not check again. ?I took the tank off, and sprayed some wd40 into the tops of the carbs in the airbox, nothing. ?I just don't get it, and unfortunately, I am having trouble getting someone who knows anything about this bike to work on it. ?The mechanic who I know, and who I wish to do business with, has in not so many words expressed that he does not like working on these bikes, although he has some time ago. The other guys in town took me for about $800 bucks last time, and I blame them for some of the problems I am having now. ?I am going to get it into the shop with the guy who is quite reluctant to work on it, but I would appreciate any thoughts on what the problem(s) most likely are, to give him some ideas(assuming he may not know of all the V's probs, and also so I can find any hard to find parts I may need in advance if he cant(Ill be counting on you guys ?:) ). ?I really wish I knew something about this stuff, I feel so useless when it comes to doing my own repairs.
I try to figure stuff out, and by that I mean I read your guys posts, compare problems, to see if that's whats wrong with mine, although I can never be sure if I've figured it out. ?I read a post today, something about the floats being stuck(frozen I think was the word used, although I don't know if he literally meant frozen). ?Would this allow excessive gas to pour into the engine?
I also read the starter clutch bolt thing, and did not think it sounded like any problem that I was having. ?I gathered from it that there is some sort of clacking while running, and that it had nothing to do with the clacking and slipping I was hearing when trying to start my bike.
Ok, wow, this is a long post. ?I don't know what I'm talking about, so I'll let you gurus do the suggesting....let me know if there is anything I can tell you that will better narrow it down.
Thank you
Rob

UPDATE
Found this re-reading the top 10 Vision problems on Lucky's site
#4 Fuel coming out the overflows
I dont know what theses overflows are, but is it possible that my carbs are extremely filthy? Also, could they be SO filthy though that it would not even start?

[silicon_toad2000]

sounds like you know what is wrong. I would suggest the following
get a manual
clean the carbs as per lucky site and replace the parts with a keyster carby kit available on ebay, or if you have more money than mechanical inclination (or less mechanical inclination than money) take the lot to a mechanic you can trust or ask some of the mebers here if they can do your carbs for you for a reasonable price.
after that replace that starter oil seal and tighten up the starter clutch.
Once that is done see how she goes.

[MotorPlow]

Here are my suggestions from what I gather from your post.  

1st pull the carbs off the bike and then contact Rick G. and get them to him.  He will to an excellent job of rebuilding the carbs for you.  Maybe you can talk him into rebuilding the YICS while he is at it and make you up a manometer too.

2nd when you get the carbs back, go out and buy yourself a brand new battery, don't just try and charge the one you have.  

With the gas running out, it sounds like you have some seriously dirty carbs.  With the bike turning over very slowly and then not firing, it sounds like the battery is so low that it doesn't have enough for the TCI to fire the coils.

Once you get these done, then you will need to check the Complete charging system with the help of Electrex.  After the charging system is correct, then play with the starter.

I wouldn't spray any more WD40 into the carbs, it's not going to do anything to help.  If anything, try some starting fluid.  However, don't over do the starting fluid.

This is where I would start.

Chris F.

[Sable]

To me, it sounds like you have a starter that oil has leaked into. If the starter is turning slow, it is usually one of two things, 1) the seal is gone and it is filled with oil or 2) there is not enough juice in the system to turn it.
Trust me, pulling the starter off is not a complicated task (I am the least mechanically inclined person I know, i.e. I screw up everything), and with the help of the haynes manual, I was able to replace the starter with a rebuilt one and have not had a problem since.

[louthepou]

Well, hard to find anything to add. Cleaning the carb, servicing the starter, sounds good. Hang in there, you can do it, take it one step at a time, you shall succeed!

And once you're done with these tasks, not only will you probably have a running V, you'll be the Vision expert in your city. (I'm not kidding).

Louis

[Lucky]

Rob, my suggestions off the bat,

--don't panic

--First, before taking it to a shop who doesn't want to work on it & charges you bucketts of $$, contact the menbers in your area (there are at least 4 that I see on the map.) and see if one of them would be willing to come out & help you (teach you to) work on the bike. I'll bet you will, no problem, although they may want to wait for warmer weather.

--gas leaking:
if you have a float stuck open (from sitting) often you can get it unstuck by rapping on the side of the carbs with the handle of a hammer.
the carbs will allow excess gas to drain out the overflows located on the left side of the carbs. you'll see 2 plastic fittings, one connects the ft & rear carbs, the other, on the ft carb, has a small line that runs down the frame & empties out under the bike by the rear exhaust.
pull both lines off the front fitting & see which carb the gas is comming out of while cranking. ?you can then pull that carb top off, without pulling the carbs, and clean out that drain, or at least force carb cleaner thru that carbs fuel inlet. (the "T" shaped hose on the top of the carb)
you have a fuel filter installed right?

--Starting
it's likely that you have both a leaking starter seal, (you said it turns slow) and a bad starter clutch (you said it rattles & now freewheels) foth of these are fixable, the starter isn't too hard, & you can do it with our help. ?the starter clutch is tougher to do, but I believe you can do this also, with our help.

I really believe in our ability to talk you thru fixing your bike over taking it to a shop, where they don't know it as well as we do, and will charge you 5 times more than it will cost you to fix it yourself, causing you to become frustrated & sell it or part it. ?:(


YOU CAN DO THIS! WE CAN HELP!  ;)

[ProfessorRex]

YOU CAN DO THIS! WE CAN HELP!  ;)

True words!  Have patience, enjoy the process!  When it's done, not only is the V AWESOME on the road, it feels great to know that you're responsible for how well it runs.  It's 'V-ery rewarding!  The vison is my first bike, my first carb, and older than me!  I love working on it almost as much as riding!

[Rob_OS23]

Wow, thanks everyone, just knowing that I somewhat narrowed it down myself makes me feel a little stronger as to what I know about the bike. ?I should mention that the battery is new last year, and although it was low because of excessive starting attempts, that I had it on a charger, and that the starter was turning as good as it ever has. ?As far as the charging system, I had it at Ventures place last summer, and it was putting out a lot of voltage, about as good as anyone could hope for I was told. ?I don't know where I am going to go from here, it is quite cold, and I have no garage to work in. ?My bike is in my grandpas garage, but there is no room to work in there. ?I think maybe I should send my carbs away as suggested, I do not want to mess them up. ?I have a spare YICS box I am going to check out today for leaks, so for now I may not need to have the old one rebuilt. ?As for the starter seal thing, I thought I had done this, and the shop that ripped me told me they had as well fixed this problem. ?When I did it though, I simply had a new seal that I put in, I never had anything with a spring in it like I have read is the proper way to do this. ?So, would you think that my starter is no good because it turns so slow(with good battery), or is it that it is full of oil? ?Any idea what it will cost to rebuild if neccessary? ?Same with starter clutch, how much money am I looking at? ?I do not have more money that mechanical inclination, or vice versa. ?I need to try things myself if possible, but could throw a little money at more complicated stuff, like the carbs. ?I will try and get a hold of Rick G about them. ?So, besides the carbs, where do I start? ?Where do I get the stuff I need to do all of this? ?I assume I need some sort of starter clutchrebuild kit? ?Starter spring seal?  I assume if I get the starter oil leak thing under controll, and the starter all cleaned up and free of oil, and it is still not turning quickly, it needs rebuilt?  Where do I get that stuff, and how much would you pay for it too?
Thanks again, you guys are really great, I was getting very discouraged, now I feel like I could do this.
Rob

[jasonm.]

I can help you out with the starter rebuild. I have done many. Careful if you take the starter apart. There are many shim washers that can get lost. I have seals, but usually the brushes are also bad by the time the seal leaks. email me.... ? @ ?jsmthefix@optonline.net

[QBS]

Rob: How many miles on your bike?

[Venture]

Rob: Just my 2 cents...don't do anything to it until someone else that's familiar with the bike has a look, to give you a second opinion. I do it myself often enough always thinking the worst is happening, then finding the solution is quite simple. If you're not in a big rush (theres still snow out there!) we can work on your bike together. If you have any friends that are mechanically inclined, let them have a look as well. A second set of eyes always helps.
Is your grandfather's garage heated?? That will have some bearing on the speed the motor turns over.
thanks, Chris...

[Rob_OS23]

Well,
jasonm, I may need to rebuild, so I will keep your address on hand.  
QBS, my bike has about 17,000 km on it
and Venture,  :), you must have noticed how un-mechanicly minded I am when I was out there to recommend not doing anything until someone who is familiar takes a look!
I would really appreciate any help you can give me.  My grandfathers garage is not heated, and I did take that into account, as the oil would be thicker in this cold weather, but I dont think that is the only problem.   I haven't done anything yet, maybe we should get together sometime and take a look at it.  I'll email you....

[Lucky]

Tempurature makes a difference.  my bike has been sitting up since November, and even with a fully charged battery, it still needed a jump. (never jump off a running vehicle).

when the bike & oil are very cold, and the bike is hard to start, it will sometimes take a good amount of cranking to get her to fire.  sometimes under those conditions the starter clutch will slip & freewheel. letting off the starter & hitting it again lets it crank again.

--Lucky

[83Vision_Org._Own]

I know this sounds repetitive, but try jump starting it...

[Paul_Jungnitsch]

Jump starting is a good call. If mine would sit overwinter it seemed (when I'd go to start it first thing in the spring) by the time the carbs got gas (I don't think the pump works well at low cranking rpm either) the voltage was too low to crank and to spark well at the same time, so the plugs would get wet and I'd be left with a mad feeling and a flat battery.

So the procedure for me every spring for the first time I started it was to go straight for the jumper cables, it turned the bike over twice as fast and no doubt gave the plugs twice as much spark as well. This would always start it up fairly quickly. Turning the gas on 'prime' first thing helped too.

After that it was ok for the rest of the year.

[Rob_OS23]

I am going to try and jump start it tommorrow, and I've got a funny feeling it's gonna go!  ;D
I talked to Lead last night on MSN(Love that audio chat), and he suggested that it could be as simple as water in the gas.  So, I went up there tonight and put some antifreeze in there, and drained the carbs.  Well, I'll tell you, it almost ran.  I said before that it was doing nothing, except put put putting (muffler sound)as the engine turned.  Tongith, it actually started to start.  It was one of those half starts where you think "Darn, if only I hadn't been messing with the throttle, I probably killed it", you know what I mean.  Anyways, didn't run, but a BIG difference from when it was doing nothing.  I am confident it would have started, but I gave up for the night because it was getting late, and the thing is at my grandpas house.  So, I am thinking of draining the tank as much as possible tommorrow, and replacing with new gas, and trying again.  I can't wait to come on tommorrow night and tell you guys that it is now running!(fingers crossed)
Thank you everybody for your help, and I'll talk to you later.
Rob

[Rob_OS23]

No super-happy news tonight, I worked quite late, and didnt get out to get new gas...
I did try to jump start off my brothers van, but it wasn't better than yesterday, maybe even worse as far as hw close it came to starting.  Could have been the cold too, it was a lot nicer yesterday.

[louthepou]

Just thought I'd say my Vision never liked the cold either. Not only is the battery cranking fewer amps, but also the oil is looking like thick goo (until I discovered synthetic - a lot better).

Louis

[redxz550inoz]

Rob - I have found that TRUST NO ONE that wants to charge you lots of money for doing anything on this bike is the way to think. :)

I got quoted $800 to replace my stator when it went. Only reason I bothered getting a quote was coz work was so busy I didn't think I'd have time to do it myself. At that price though, I bl**dy well made time..lol
So if I can do it, surely it's not too difficult. Get hold of a manual and off ya go.

There's more than enough ppl here willing to help you out - with any problem you may have.

My girl isn't too fond of the cold either so during winter she wears an old horse rug to keep warm (yeah, my husband laughed the first time he saw it too). I found a regular bike cover just wasn't enough.

[Superfly]

Talking about gouging, I was quoted $1200 for the labor only on replacing the connection rod bearings!!  The good news is that I put them back on myself, and I am in the process of re-assembeling the engine.  I would much rather do it myself anyways, that way I know who to blame when something goes wrong!