Here's a strange thought

Started by Lead_Deficiency, September 15, 2005, 10:25:20 PM

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Lead_Deficiency

I was watching Discovery and they had a program about the 10 best bikes (really I think 5/10 were poor picks) but they made a point of the leading front axle being so much more stable - i forget the name of the bike, but it was an old english bike I think was the Brough Superior.
(this should stir something up)
What if the lowers of front forks were swaped to the opposite sides so the axle were leading instead of trailing?

I know the brake calliper would be on the forward side of the fork but I have seen the calliper placed that way on a few bikes.
Do you think it would increase the stability or be a disaster ? fire away. ;D

Tdub

The key word here is "offset". If you were to draw an imaginary line thru the steering stem and a parallel line thru the axle, the distance between the two is "offset". The placement off the axle has little to do with the actual handling off the bike, but rather the offet number. It is a combination of axle placement and triple clamp offset(different from true offset, it is measured from the stem to leg center). This can be a long drawn out explanation, more than I am willing to type...LOL
As far as stability goes, it is a combination off offset, fork angle, and rake.
If you were to turn your trailing axle forks around and use the stock clamps which were designed to be used with trailing axle forks, you would end up with a LESS stable bike at speed. Trail also figures into the equation, but I am already close to my typing limit. Tdub
PS...I type with 2 fingers...when one gets tired I use the other!
Always Looking for the Next Race

Lead_Deficiency

 I forgot about the angle of the tripple tree and was thinking more of the shopping buggy wheel :P

squid

i saw some of that show tonite too,,,and i too have thought about the front forks,,,and i asked that question a few weeks ago,,,lucky said it was a very bad idea and dont do it,,,but like a child when your told not to do something ya gotta try it outta curiosity right lol,,,i may still giver and see what transpires

Coil Coyle

#4
Strange Indeed :o :o :o :o :o :o

    As TDub's fingers gave out he was telling you about TRAIL. 8)

    The center of the patch of the front tire tread that is on the ground is BEHIND the center point on the ground that your forks pivot around. This is why when you are moving the steering centers itself. It is also limits how much the wheel steers when you lean the bike with your hands off of the handlebars.
     If you turn the lower fork tubes and change nothing else you will move the center of the tire contact patch very close to the center of your forks pivot point at the road, maybe part of the contact patch will be in front of the pivot center.

       The front wheel will be very easy to steer, it will even be able to steer itself within the limits of your upper body strength and frame flex ;).

Don't ride this setup any faster than you would want to be going when you get thrown over the handlebars. :'(
For "slow races" it might be the hot setup. ;D

coil



Coil Coyle

Here is a guy that did it!!

http://www.thefang.co.uk/history.htm

Note his handling comment.
? ?::) :P? ?:-\ :-X :-[ >:( :o :o :o :o :o
coil

XZv2

#6
I did it also, to obtain sidecar geometry. The trail is diminished from 118 mm to ca 53 mm when you turn the forks thus putting the axle in the front position. I did ride the bike with the front axle in that forward position also without sidecar. It steers very light. I was afraid of a speed wobble and I tested it only up to ca 60 miles, but I experienced no speed wobble. I was kind of careful also because the front tire was choosen for sidecar riding.
See xz550.nl under "the sidecar story".
XZv2

Mutt

Harmonic instability.....not good.? :P? I just hope his leathers are sealed tight!? ::) See video link.

Mutt

http://www.blackdogdualsport.com/jokes/wobble.mpeg
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George R. Young

The Vision forks were located in front of the axle for two reasons, style and to avoid bashing the lovely, large tank at full lock.

QBS

As per Cycle Magazine in '82 and '83, Yamaha chose the V steering head angle for stability.  However, that angle put the axle out so far that the resultant wheelbase was too long.  So, to get the wheelbase back to where they wanted it for good handling purposes, they did the obvious expediant thing and moved the axle back to behind the fork legs.  Even so, Cycle commented that the wheelbase was a little long for the displacement and sporting mission of the design.

Look at modern sport bikes and you'll find few, if any, that have as long a wheelbase as the V.  Cheers.