Please help, didn't want to start,when started,after 300m died.

[Prvi Vozac]

Yesterday I rode all day, made about 80km. I own Vision three weeks and I made about 500 km. 
Today I tried to start it and she didn't want to start. Like there's no gasoline insine. Before this I opened an ignition black box oin the right of the bike, to see, but NOTHING touched. And after 15 min. the bike started normaly. And I turned it of and on few times and everything was OK. And I decided to go on the little ride and the bike missed the gas after 200m, and I gave more gas, and she lost gas totally, and died. After this I tried to star the engine, maybe 70 times, but nothing.
I don't know what to do. I know Vision has a ignition and electric problems as I see on the websites. This problem seems like the gas pump died.
Please give me some advice what to do with this problem. I cannot go to my mechanic. Everything was Ok with the bike except gearbox problem, but that's the other stuff. She started every time from the first try, except when was warm.

Thanks a lot guys!
Prvi Vozac :-\

[kiawrench]

Prvi,,
   the Vision fuel cap may be your problem,, from your story, i think it may be it . next time it stops ,  take key out, open fuel cap and turn the selector to prime for 30 seconds. then replace cap and try again. if it starts ok, then you need to take the cap apart and fix the bleed valve opening .
   

[Prvi Vozac]

Kiawrench, thank you very much, I'll try to fix it in the afternoon.

[Extent]

I'ld check to make sure that your fuel lines aren't pinched anywhere and that the vaccum line feeding the petcock is hooked up and not kinked for starters (alternatively try running with the pretcock set to prime, which bypasses the vaccum diaphram).  I wouldn't think that the fuel cap would be as much a problem for cold starts.

[Prvi Vozac]

Prvi,,
   the Vision fuel cap may be your problem,, from your story, i think it may be it . next time it stops ,  take key out, open fuel cap and turn the selector to prime for 30 seconds. then replace cap and try again. if it starts ok, then you need to take the cap apart and fix the bleed valve opening .
   

I tried it yesterday, nothing. Now i received a manual and I will start to work for a weekend.

[Prvi Vozac]

Me and my friend put of the carburator, and cleaned air filter, cleaned carburator with air pump, opened and checked fuel pump, and everything seems OK. The battery is almost empty due to lot of trying to star the engine.
When I press start button man can hear the engine almost start(like it want to start), and then t-t-t-t-t-t-t-tt form small relay which is near the battery.
So, I think the engine gets the fuel, and the battery was almost new. It rotated norally but I tried to many times. Where is the problem?  Electrycity? but where? Spark plugs are new also, but we didn't check do they give fire.
Please help people, I have no idea what to do. I think it isn't something very difficult to repair, but where? The YICS box is OK, doesn't leak.

Thanks


Prvi Vozac

[Lucky]

your battery is dead, charge it up or replace it, then run the Electrex (electrosport) fault finding chart.  if it's just the battery, cool, otherwise your probably looking at a stator and/or R/R
--Lucky

[MotorPlow]

You might want to check the starter and see if it filled it's self with oil. That's the sound I got when my starter filled with oil, it's also the sound Mutt had when his filled with oil.

[QBS]

How many miles on the bike?  Has the starter seal been replaced?

[Prvi Vozac]

It probably isn't only the battery, because it was in good condition before I desperately wanted to start the bike.
Bike made 49700 km (30 882 miles) and the guy(the only owner) who saled it to me didn't care for the bike, he thought everything is OK while the bike runs. The oil in the engine and in brakes was black mud.So I think nothning changed.
I'll need a few days to fill the battery and try to repare, and then I'll tell you how it was.

Thanks very much on your answers guys, you're really big support, making all this much easier!

Ciao,

Prvi Vozac (btw. it means The First Driver in Croatian language, but I use this nick everywhere)

[Extent]

If system voltage drops below about 10V during cranking the bike won't start even if everything else is perfect (the TCI dosen't function at that point I think it was).  Make sure it's topped off before troubleshooting ignition problems, it wears down fast when you can't get it started.

If you've got an extra car battery hanging around somewhere you could temporarily hook it up to the bike instead of the MC battery.  That would last longer while you're getting things figured out.  Also if you decide to jump the bike from a car at any point make sure you do it with the car not running or else you can possibly overload the R/R.

When you say it sounds like it almost starts is it actually popping or burbeling a little bit?  If it is wouldn't that mean that the ignition is working and the problem is more air/fuel related?

And just another thought that occured to me, the previous owner never cared for the bike, could it have been sitting with gas in the carbs for a long period of time?  You said you cleaned it out with compressed air, but if some of the really small passageways (like the cold start circuit perhaps) are gummed up with varnished fuel that could still be a problem.  Running the bike for 500km may have shaken some of that dirt loose.  That can happen even after using a chemical cleaner.  Even if it looks ok it really couldn't hurt to strip the carbs and do a full dip.

[Prvi Vozac]

If system voltage drops below about 10V during cranking the bike won't start even if everything else is perfect (the TCI dosen't function at that point I think it was).  Make sure it's topped off before troubleshooting ignition problems, it wears down fast when you can't get it started.

If you've got an extra car battery hanging around somewhere you could temporarily hook it up to the bike instead of the MC battery.  That would last longer while you're getting things figured out.  Also if you decide to jump the bike from a car at any point make sure you do it with the car not running or else you can possibly overload the R/R.


Yes, I have extra battery, 45A, but I thought it was too strong and I didn't connect it.

When you say it sounds like it almost starts is it actually popping or burbeling a little bit?  If it is wouldn't that mean that the ignition is working and the problem is more air/fuel related?

For me it sounded normally, but before, when started, every time, i suprised, a moment bofore the engine started, you can hear a 'bang'. It was rotating, and bang! and engine started. But I thought it was normal, maybe rough a little bit. Now when you said popping, I've remember this. I don't know englis so well, maybe I don't understand th best words pop &burble.

And just another thought that occured to me, the previous owner never cared for the bike, could it have been sitting with gas in the carbs for a long period of time? 

Yes, it was sitting a long time with a gas in carbs. No conservation.

You said you cleaned it out with compressed air, but if some of the really small passageways (like the cold start circuit perhaps) are gummed up with varnished fuel that could still be a problem.  Running the bike for 500km may have shaken some of that dirt loose.  That can happen even after using a chemical cleaner.  Even if it looks ok it really couldn't hurt to strip the carbs and do a full dip.


May be. Full dip? You mean to dip the carb into the cleaner? I could do this.

[kwells]

Yes, definitely a full dip...
Use this stuff...or comparable
http://www.xz550.com/carbindex.html

Just take off as many plastic parts, including the floats off of the carbs before dipping....20-30 Mins should do it.  Might want Latex gloves.

Your 45A battery should be fine ..as long as it is 12V

P.S. WIll eat holes in Jeans

[Prvi Vozac]

I gotta search for something similar in Croatia.

[kwells]

Some shops also provide UltraSonic cleaning.  Maybe be another option if these products are not available.

[Prvi Vozac]

Hello to everybody, I'm here to tell you happy newness  ;D , to notice you that me and my friend reapired it. We put the carburator in the diluent, because I couldn't find any carb cleaner solution. Btw., he just has tightened the connector which is o0n the wire for the sperk plug.Connector is on the left side under the airbox, on the fornt, big black one. We don't know if this was a problem.
But, when we started, bike wnt much much softer, cleaner and faster then before. Then we went on the ride and it was perfect, beautiful. But later the engine starter to lose gas, and started only with almost full chock, drive hard, and when stop, then turn off.
As I rode here, I think there's too much air in the engine, and maybe I should repare YICS, or to repare old gums under the carb. What do You say? I'm proud and happy I did it  :), think this now isnt' a big problem. I have all the infos about repairing the YICS, and remember I saw somewhere solution for the gum problem.

Ciao, and many thanks to all!

P.S. Day before we did it, I called some auto-moto electricity guy, and he hesitated about repairing my Vision bike, talled me a few days ago there was a guy with the Vision which drives a Wall of Death on the local kermis!!! Ha,ha,ha! And the Visions are very rare here  :)

[Prvi Vozac]

Btw. I think I'd maybe need a gasket for the oil pump, does anybody  know how to make it? I think I damaged it a little bit  :-\

[kwells]

what is a wall of death?

[Night Vision]

what is a wall of death?

kinda like riding circles in a half whiskey barrel, only much larger. There's one at Sturgis. 

[Prvi Vozac]

something like this:

http://www.californiahellriders.com/id2.html

http://www.indianmotorbikes.com/features/wallofdeath/