Author Topic: Hard starts  (Read 2021 times)

Lou Ras

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Hard starts
« on: November 18, 2004, 07:47:31 PM »
Hi all
I know this has been discussed before but I'm experiencing a lot of difficulty to get the V started once she's hot. A small push does the trick. This is the last "big" problem with a bike that runs beatifully after 6 months of loving care, coaxing and swearing.   I have tried most suggested ways - putting it on the centre stand etc. What I would like to know is the probable causes and remedies for this. None of my personal ways of starting seem to work. I have tried no throttle, half throttle, full throttle, same with the choke and a lot of other innovative ideas. I have some thoughts. Could the gas run out of the carb when the  bike gets warm and is stationary? Does the angle of the side stand play a role? Is it a timing thing?  The battery seems fine. I have done all the "standard" modifications - cutting rev limiter etc
Any help please

Lucky

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Re: Hard starts
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2004, 02:54:46 AM »
some ideas to check/try:
--Pilot adjustment too rich and or synq out of adjustment. (these two are always worth double checking, plus, be sure to synq with the YICS hoses blocked ir capped)
--float level too high, lowering by 2-3mm won't affect performance
--try removing & reinstalling the fuel fill cap before starting. the vent may be blocked

-Lucky
1982/3 XZ550 Touring Vison, Gold on Black

GA_Wolf

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Re: Hard starts
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2004, 06:38:04 AM »
I have just the opposite problem...in the morning if the temp is in the lower 50's or lower...I have to crank and crank and crank...eventually I'll get a backfire. (sounds like a gunshot..sure my neighbors love that at 7:20 am)  Then I stop..go back in the house for 10 minutes...then come back out and she'll usually fire up in a reasonable amount of time.
I put her on the battery tender every night and leave her on it till she cranks and runs in the A.M.  Just to help that little old battery out on chilly mornings.  After she's up and running..no more problems the rest of the day.

Will probably change my plugs this weekend, if it's not raining, to see if that helps any.  Don't want to mess with the carbs as she's running great.

louthepou

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Re: Hard starts
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2004, 06:58:20 AM »
Hi GA_Wolf,

If you use mineral oil, could be just that it's too thick when cold. I know my cold weather starts bacame a lot easier when I switched to 100% synthetic.

Louis
Hi, my name is Louis, and I'm a Vision-o-holic

Superfly

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Re: Hard starts
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2004, 09:07:53 AM »
Is the charging system correct?  One time I was mistaking hot start probles with charging system problems.
A bad marrage is like dirty carbs... It just makes everything else suck.

QBS

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Re: Hard starts
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2004, 03:35:00 PM »
Backfiring when starting is usually a sign of low battery cranking voltage.  But you say that your battery is in good shape.  Suggest that you clean your ignition fuse holder prongs to bright and shiney condition.  Also do the same to your low voltage spark coil connections and your TCI box connector.  Corrosion could be robbing your ignition system of precious voltage.  Vs' demand all the volts they can get.  Cheers.

Cdnlouie

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Re: Hard starts
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2004, 06:12:16 PM »
My thoughts are with your point QBS.

Hot starting problem, though it runs great and starts okay is often a battery problem. ?This one is real hard to diagnose because the battery works fine except when the bike is hot and the starter draw is the greatest and the battery cannot supply enought voltage to fire the TCI ignition. ?It basically floods out because of lack of voltage to fire the ignition.

One way I have used to check this condition is to put a volt meter across the battery terminals and crank the starter. ?If the voltage drops below (10 volts minimum) your TCI will probably not fire. ?If you get 8 or 9 volts with the starter cranking she simply will not start hot.

The battery will start cold generally because it gets a chance to develop maximum charge by sitting overnight or after a good trickle charging.

Try pushing the bike in second gear and jump starting it when it won't start (hot) and that will tell you conclusively that it is the battery, because it will start without the starter draining the voltage.

This a nasty little battery behaviour that happens every once in a while.

Louie ? ;)

« Last Edit: November 19, 2004, 06:13:47 PM by canadianlouie »

QBS

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Re: Hard starts
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2004, 06:36:59 PM »
The loud backfire when attempting to start is IMHO a unique V phenomenon.  Strongly suggest all should study Leathers' excellent analysis and discussion of its' roots and causes. Read up on "Wasted Spark" at his web site.  Wasted spark is the cause of the backfire.  Study Leather and all will be revealed.  Cheers.

Lou Ras

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Re: Hard starts
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2004, 04:27:07 AM »
Thanx to you all. It must be the battery. When I turn the headlight on the revs drop with about 300rpm. This battery is about 6 months old. It has run dead flat on two occasions - d'you think it's time for a new one? Bike is charging at 13.6v. There might be a short or something..........OH NO!!!!!! I hate looking for it  

Cdnlouie

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Re: Hard starts
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2004, 05:07:15 AM »
If 13.6 volts is your highest charging rate, that is too low.  You need to be at 14.5 when engine rpm is raised above idle.  Confirm your stator is not grounded out on one of the three white wires and if all is well that is good.  Do the usual test on the R/R.

Get her ready for the spring,

Louie  ::)

Lou Ras

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Re: Hard starts
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2004, 05:10:09 AM »
Hey all
Used the Electrex chart and found the problem very quickly -(bad connection between red wire from RR and battery) the plastic inline fuse holder that I installed (30amp main) started to melt because of a bad connection I suppose.Replaced it with a bacolite one. The bike now starts at a quick push of the starter button. BTW Louie, according to them any voltage between 13.5 and 14.8 is ok.

Kevin Clinton

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Re: Hard starts
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2004, 07:20:15 AM »
hard starting when hot is usually tight valves. also a common problem is the oil seal on starter going bad filling starter with oil. will still crenk but hard to start. kevin  

Lucky

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Re: Hard starts
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2004, 07:54:17 AM »
Quote
hard starting when hot is usually tight valves.  


Generally true for motorcycles, not the most common cause for Visions though, it's usually pilot screws out of adjustment ot dirty carbs.

Quote
will still crenk but hard to start.


not for long, lol...
1982/3 XZ550 Touring Vison, Gold on Black