New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)

[inanecathode]

Well, invitations open :D
I suspect its the cable holding the idle high, i can literally see it not resting on the stop, and when i reach in and press it back it returns to a nice idle speed. I'll see if i can't bend/reverse the throttle cable stay and see if i can irk some slack out of it at the carb end, and fix the vacuum leak and see if that helps things :D

[YellowJacket!]

I wonder if the person before you fitted the wrong size cable.

David

[inanecathode]

Oh ffs, now it's only running the front cylinder. Any ideas? Suppose just check spark and go from there. Seeing even more leaks out of the boots now  :-\
Got the hose and nut on now though.

Rear cylinder no spark. Plug cap good, plug (probably original) is servicable.
Where do i go from here? Totally lost at this point.
Furthermore, how do i fix the boots?

[Lucky]

to patch the carb boots, clean them with brake cleaner (leaves no residue) and coat them in "liquid electrical tape" (ava in several colors i believe)

before you go chasing all over electrical land, it's 90% chance it's carbs.  do the easy stuff first: synq & set the pilot screws, if there is ANY improvement, pull the carbs, dip & rebuild them. if they are 83's take out a loan & send them to me for rebuilding. 8)

double check your YICS for leaks too, but i'll bet it's carbs. oh you haven't got one...

--Lucky

[inanecathode]

Theres no spark to the rear cylinder, dont think that's carbs  :P
I have. NO idea what i'm doing with electrical. I know i should check the coils, but i have no idea where they are, how to get to them, how to check them, and what i should be looking for...
So far my only thought has been: It was running fine (electrically speaking) until i parked it, came back to it, and suddenly theres no spark in the rear cylinder. Something came loose (i find it a rather small chance that something spontaneously broke in that short amount of time) or got fried some how.

Feelin pretty bummed, and totally lost. Carbs are one thing, but i've never had a no-spark occurance in any of my vehicles, two wheels or otherwise.

[YellowJacket!]

Did anything get wet?  Did you hose it down?  Water in the TCI can do things like that.
Did you say earlier that the rev limiter wire  was cut?

I had a problem like this early on.  It turned out that my spark plug wire was not inserted tightly enough into the coil.  To find the coil, follow the spark plug wire up until it ends into a black plastic thingy.  Thats the coil.  The wire is held in place by a twist on collar..pressure olds the wire in place.  Loosen the collar and make sure the wire is pused in, then retighten the collar.
You'll have to remove the tank to get at the coils.

David

[inanecathode]

Are they secured by these little acorn nuts through the frame?

[Brian Moffet]

yup. 

Brian

[inanecathode]

Can they be tested outside the bike, or do i need a ground?
How does one go about testing them anyhow?

Recap so far:
Tach not working
Rear cylinder not getting spark (plug good, plug cap good)
Horn, signals, neutral lights not working

Plan on running a bunch of tests tomorrow.

PS How do i remove wires from the TCI plug?

[Brian Moffet]

You can put a multimeter (ohm setting) between the orange wire and the spark plug connection and measure the resistance there (I think 7900 ohms).  Then measure the resistance between the main electrical contacts, they should be 2.75 ohms.  You can find this information in the service manual on page 169 (on the CD from lucky).

As far as removing wires from the TCI connector, I wasn't able to out in the boondocks when I cut mine,

Brian

[inanecathode]

*sighs*
I really don't know what i'm looking at. I'm getting all sorts of different resistances. I don't even know how to read my dvom with the ohm setting  :-\
I'm really confused now, all i'm certain of is the rear cylinder isnt getting spark.
The book says to check the resistance between the red/white stripe wire and the orange on the coil to test the primary coil. I did this for both sides and got 2.8-2.7 ohms a piece. Seems ok to me. I go to test the secondary coil resistance (book says to go between the orange wire and the spark plug wire) i get nothing from both coils there.
I'm not one to throw parts at stuff, but hell what can i do?
Only other thing of note is that there's a spot of rust inside where the spark plug wire lives inside the rear coil.
Pretty frustrated at this point. I'm thinking i need help :/

EDIT: Twitch. Twitch.

[YellowJacket!]

If you are up for it, I have a spare coil that I know is working.  I can send it to you to try out...to rule out a bad coil.  SHipping shouldn't be more than $5.00 each way.  If it works, we can negotiate a price. ;D

David

[inanecathode]

Oh where or where to begin!
First off, a HUUUUUUUGE thank-you-very-much to h2o for coming up and helping me with my vision today! Seriously i couldnt ask for a more like minded individual. Not only that, but tolerating the condtions up here today, rain showers all day with no shelter (psst, bob, suns out now that you left :O) and an umbrella at one point.
We determined that the rear cylinder isnt getting a spark for some reason. Took the plug out and rested it on the block, yup, no spark. Swapped the coils over, no spark. Swapped tci's out, no spark. Swapped wires out, no spark. Finally (probably in frustration with the yamaha gods) someone (dont remember if it was h2o or I) put the dvom on the spark plug and got conductivity between the plug wire hookup (little nubbin on the top). We decided that aint good at all. Plugs should have infinite resistance, at least on the digital read.
The weird thing was, the plug looked fine, really. Neither he nor i have ever seen a bad sparkplug. Sure, dirty ones, broken ones, cruddy ones, burnt ones, but not one that looks perfectly servicable but won't spark. After throwing in a good looking plug and setting it on the head it sparked, and boy did it. Bright blue-yellow very loud spark.

Pause for a minute. Occam wins here i think, bad sparkplug is pretty basic imo, but seriously the plug looked fine, really. Really it did..
Unpause

Having gotten the second wind of a solved problem, we took a road trip (just down the road) to my grumpy ex-boss at the local garage to find a plug that'll replace the one i have. No joy on that venture (im sure she had one, she's just lazy...), so i emory clothed the heck out of the thing, and upon placing on the block it sparked well now (good enough i'm sure).

Hooking everything back up again, both plugs go back into the cylinders and all the plugs go in their respective recepticals. Just a touch of choke and a few pumps from the throttle aaaand!
Yamanayamanayamana for a good 30 seconds. We could only irk out a cough and a SPECTACULAR backfire a few times. What the hell? We didnt touch the carbs, at all. Didnt even look at em. Tried every combination of gas/choke/trottle and couldnt get anything. Accelerators spraying, plugs firing, nothing. Even dripping some gas down the carb throats gave nothing. Perhap's its just incredibly flooded for some reason. What's even weirder, is all the indicators started working up front, neutral, oil, tachometer, but upon application of the turn signal they all died again. Perhaps it's because /everything/ is soaking wet at this point?

What the hell's going on with my vision? It's got this weird disease of having totally unrelated systems fail. We joked the rear tire would go flat if we touched the carbs, and if we touched the fuses the caliper would start leaking. Sounds funny, but really? What the heck?


Highlight reel!
-Almost electrocuting both h2o and myself several times with the wasted spark
-h2o:key off?   inane:yup   h2o turns key off X 100
-Height of both pairs of eyebrows after good plug sparks
-Height of one eyebrow of each pair after bike refuses to start
-Height of feet on inane's part off the ground after the first 'vision-splosion'
-Bad spark plug! No! No! Bad sparkplug!

Things i've learned!
-Spark plugs do just 'stop working for no reason'
-I need a garage/shed/tent/bunker to work in
-Visions have invisible links to everything else in the bike. Touch one thing, another part malfunctions
-I need a garage/shed/tent/bunker to work in
-Turn petcock OFF of prime when you take the fuel line off  :-X
-Front plug is NEIGH IMPOSSIBLE to remove
-Might want to check my brake caliper bolts... just a hunch...  ;)
Did i mention i need a garage/shed/tent/bunker to work in yet?


Line of attack from this point forward:
-Let it dry out. Water's bad, mmkay?
-Make ABSOLUTELY SURE both plugs are ACTUALLY SPARKING
-Replace fuse box (rushed fingers broke a fuse mount :()
-New spark plugs. New wires. New spark plug caps. (suggestion to all vision riders [cept h2o and his immaculate visions grumble grumble])

[YellowJacket!]

I think tiffinator had a similar problem and it turned out to be a bad turn signal relay.  It was putting a big drain on her system and I think she even burned out her diode a couple times from it. hey, where's she been anyway?

David

[Lucky]

the MSF instructer from Nashville? she sold her V last fall...  thought you knew.

[kwells]

awesome narrative....should have called me..I could have left early from work and nearly gotten shocked as well....think we need to change this title to "Not so New to The Vision but still Working it Out"

[YellowJacket!]

the MSF instructer from Nashville? she sold her V last fall...  thought you knew.

Tiffinator from Louisiana

David

[Tiger]

:)...Before you do anything else...BUY NEW, spark plug's, spark plug lead's and spark plug cap's.

These are the first things I rip out and throw into the garbage, EVERYTIME. You can very rarely tell, just by looking, if these part's are good or not. It's one of those area's that get overlooked time and time again... :o The price of these part's are nil compared to the frustration you experienced trying to start your "V".
After trying to start your "V" several times you may need to re-charge your battery... ;) you could also try "bump starting" her...

                    8)........TIGER....... 8)

[inanecathode]

It's uphill to everywhere around here lol
Figure i'll just scummy around napa and what not looking for plugs wires and caps. About the caps, i know people stock bulk wire, and plugs, but those caps, are they vision specific or are they used on other vehicles?
Kwells, once me n' h2o figure out a good time next week i'll let you know what day so perhaps you could come over as well (only if you want to of course). We'd have a regular mini-OnROV COROV meet!

H2o got me thinking about repainting my vision. Black is Sooooo played, i'm thinking of trying to match http://www.tocmp.com/brochures/Chev/1965/Caprice/images/1965Ccapricebrochurepage1_JPG.jpg Pow, that color. (H2o if you wondered what that rusty bohemouth in the driveway looked like new, there ya go :D [that's the exact model minus the vinyl top])

[Lucky]

the wires are not the same as automotive wires (resisitor core) you need bike wires (solid core)  most bike shops will carry it in a bulk roll, but call around first.
the caps are common, inexpensive NGK items.

--Lucky