New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)

[zore]

I dont' know.  You still have some other issues. A vacuum leak somewhere. 

[inanecathode]

No vacuum leak, guarentee it. Brand new boots, brand new gaskets, brand new lines, to leak detected even with ether.
If it helps, it was running fine (if a little oddly, really low idle) after just putting on the carbs with the sync bottomed out. Mixture was actually affecting how it ran. Should i just ignore the sync and bottom it out?
I think the reason the sync tool was going nuts is the sync was bottomed out so there was a ton of vacuum, that and the new boots arent as flexible as the crappy old ones.

[Lucky]

here's a thought:
assuming the synq on the parts bike carb should be fairly close to right, how about swaping those carbs in at least as a test?  just leave the synq & mix as it is if it runs decent...

[zore]

No vacuum leak, guarentee it. Brand new boots, brand new gaskets, brand new lines, to leak detected even with ether.
If it helps, it was running fine (if a little oddly, really low idle) after just putting on the carbs with the sync bottomed out. Mixture was actually affecting how it ran. Should i just ignore the sync and bottom it out?
I think the reason the sync tool was going nuts is the sync was bottomed out so there was a ton of vacuum, that and the new boots arent as flexible as the crappy old ones.

remember that the idle speed screw can't touch the throttle plates when you are doing.  Once you get the rod on, lock it and bring the idle screw in a few turns. When you do this, both throttle plates will open up a touch to allow idle.

I think bolting the parts carbs on might not be a bad idea as lucky suggested.

[inanecathode]

No vacuum leak, guarentee it. Brand new boots, brand new gaskets, brand new lines, to leak detected even with ether.
If it helps, it was running fine (if a little oddly, really low idle) after just putting on the carbs with the sync bottomed out. Mixture was actually affecting how it ran. Should i just ignore the sync and bottom it out?
I think the reason the sync tool was going nuts is the sync was bottomed out so there was a ton of vacuum, that and the new boots arent as flexible as the crappy old ones.

remember that the idle speed screw can't touch the throttle plates when you are doing.  Once you get the rod on, lock it and bring the idle screw in a few turns. When you do this, both throttle plates will open up a touch to allow idle.

I think bolting the parts carbs on might not be a bad idea as lucky suggested.

This is actually a really good idea, about the idle and the sync. Assuming theres no air leaks, when the idle screw is bottomed out the plates are basically sealed, ie no idle. When i monkey with the sync rod then it opens one throttle plate allowing idle, but messes up the sync in the process.
The problem i am having though, is with the sync rod bottomed out, i have to turn the idle screw in really far to get an idle out of it. Warrents a bit of poking around when i get home tonight. It does run, not well, but well enough to get it within range of a second pair of eyes.
I do totally agree that the parts carbs on there would serve a huge diagnostic tool, but honestly i dont have time to do it. I'll bring them with me, but i'd have to tear down, clean, dip, reassemble (replace bad parts in/on it) then mount it.

Tank has 2 coats of paint on it, looks pretty good so far, fender has 3, and looks very good. I guess i did have to put a primer coat on o_O

Wet sanding both the fender and the tank tonight. throwing another coat on tomorrow, one tomorrow morning, then final sand then another coat on saturday night. Everything as far as fuel system is being buttoned down tonight. I'll monkey with it for a few hours tonight to see if i can at least get it to idle right, i dont want it dying at lights. The bogging only really affects it from 3k rpm down, so i should be fine temporarily.
Other than the paint, and the fuel system, it's all set for takeoff up here in the mountains!

[Night Vision]

sounds to me like you need an Italian TuneUp  :o ....take it out to some dark back road and treat it like a redheaded stepchild.

Sunday is Father's day so you need to show the V ....   WHO'S YOUR DADDY??!!

I'm dead serious on that advice and swear by it... maybe you have have sticky rings... carbon on a valve... a Klingon in the carb.....

I've rebuilt and dipped my carbs twice. Over the course of the last year I've dinked around with the pilot settings so many times... I have had it running good and I had it running great.... but not really consistent or up to my expectations...

Right now it's running the best it ever has... getting 45-50 mpg... yeah, a rare stumble once in awhile...  but I'm not going to mess with it any more (yeah right!)

Why is it suddenly different?

200 miles of flogging the highways and lowways.....

.....but most likely it was those three tank slapping / nut cruntching whooptees in a row that shook those gremlins off  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[kwells]

I sorta just figured this out with Zore's comment.  Not only do you have to sync but also get the mixture settings correct without the YICS.  I realized that the mixture screws affect the performance of that particular carb in vivo. That is to say you cannot simply set the carbs to be at equal pressure simply with the sync rod and manometer.  First you have to get it to actually stay running. Then you sync with the rod and manometer.  After that you then have to set each carb's mixture screw at the 'optimal' setting.  But that will also throw the original sync off and it will need to be readjusted with the rod back to equal intake.  If at that point a better setting for the mixture screws cannot be found you are essentially done at that point.  If it still bogs then most likely the carbs will need to be yanked out and redipped.  I think I finally get it!

[Lucky]

well, not really...yeah, do the adjustments with the YICS off, but if there are no other problems (ignition cuts out, dirty carbs, etc) then pilot settng won't affect synq at all....  set that first. then pilots.

if adjusting your pilots changes synq, your not done.

--Lucky

[inanecathode]

Fuel system is roughed in good enough to be ridden. Hopefully i can get a second pair of eyes and hands on it tomorrow evening (namely kwells). Fuel system: 1/2 DONE!

Fuse box actually came today! Omg yay! soldered on the wires and installed fuses, one end screws right into where the original box is. Closed the seat and it clears perfectly! Perfectly functioning, no smoke, no hot spots, no dead circuits. Electrical: DONE!

Got two coats on the tank, 800 wet sand (frankly looked pretty dang smooth already, opted for this instead of 400 to save time  :-X) and another coat of paint. Looks pretty damn good. Those damn corners and edges though, paint just plain doesnt like em. Side covers are done sans badging (just putting the badges back on, plan on plating/painting them along with the side covers again, im sure i can do better than that) and the front fender has 2 coats, 400 wet sand, and another coat. Both tank and fender will recieve two coats tomorrow morning, and pending on how they turn out it might be straight to a polish and wax. Paint: 1/4 DONE!

Can't think of anything else. Maybe fork seals but, perhaps i can get that done at WP, i really dont want to take another system apart as of yet and break more stuff :-x


Overall, i'm VERY close to being done. Just need a bit of time to dry me paint, and to get the fuel system squared away.



Carbs: Redux
Somethings very weird with the sync, i'm fairly sure i'm totally f*cking it up. Its just all over, idle all over because of it. Now instead of the oil in the sync tool mellowly bouncing about, one intake pulse literally throws oil all the way up the tube (not suck, but throw with the strength of the intake stroke) so i have to clamp it off, which i think is part of the problem, my clamping skills seem to affect how the sync looks on the tool. I just got the sync GENERALLY looking ok, mixture set ok, and got it to idle. Theres a slightly slow return to idle, and a bit of bog, but nothing outside the scope of being road worthy.

[Lucky]

it should help the oil in the manometer stay steady instead of bouncing around if you stick 2 #60 pilot fuel jets down in the ends of the tubes (we all have a bunch laying around right?)

your sucking all the oil out one end because the carbs are WAYYY out of balance.  that's the point of the manometer to BALANCE the carbs.....


BTW, your electrical isn't close to being done, it's just 'patched'...

[inanecathode]

Pfft, electrical is SO done :P

Oil only gets sucked out if i don't dampen the sync tool, when its slightly dampened they're in sync according to the guage. The only reason it sucks oil up and out is theres very little oil in the tool itself (did actually have it WAY out of balance once, i'll give you that) and that reduction in mass is either alot easier to throw around, or the new boots arent nearly as flexible as the old boots. It just has a violent enough pulse/strong enough vacuum to momentarily pull one side up higher than the other, not because it's out of sync, but that it literally tosses a fountain of oil up inside the tube, then ingests it once it gets over the hump in where i have it hung.

[Lucky]

oh, your right of course, what was I thinking??!!!  ::) ???
good luck.

[inanecathode]

About? Really, electrical is done i think. Nothing comes to mind that's currently a problem, upgrades sure (louder horn, accessory lights etc) but other than one fuse melting off (weird it didnt blow, bad connections) and one cutting out, i can't think of anything.

[samsr]

If you put a .030 mig welding tip in the end of the manometer.  It will work better.   Sounds like you may make it.  If you could get the bike to Colorado Springs I am sure we could get her running pretty well.  If you have some spare time and feel like taking her for a ride, come on down.  I have colortune and a set of gauges.  I will be glad to help.  I love a challenge.

[Aelwulf]

Yeah, mine was off pretty heavily and he got it ironed out. ;) Although I might have to go bug 'im again, found out the plug caps weren't snapped on tight and it seems to be running a tad rich again since I tightened 'em.  Pulls well though, I was doing MSF practice stuff up & down the street while waiting on the movers and nearly lifted the front wheel a bit going into second. :o Been starting pretty quick every time, no other issues I can detect as of yet.  We'll see hopefully in a week or two when I get my title/registration from Florida.

[inanecathode]

Alright, well i guess my brake system is still messed up after just installing a master cylinder rebuild kit. Instead of the handle creeping toward the grip, it's going the other way, getting harder and harder and applying itself until i have to get off and let the pressure out of the line from the bleeder. I've fully flushed the brake system with brand new dot 3 and it hasnt really gotten any better. Theres play at the brake handle, it's not sticking or dragging, just applying itself over time. I'm not totally square on how motorcycle hydraulic systems work, but with the piston all the way back in the master cylinder, shouldnt excess pressure come out a bleed hole in the cylinder? All i'm getting is raised eyebrows so far, other than "rebuild the brake system again" noones actually had a solution for what i'm having here.
Any tips to save me a 60 dollar caliper rebuild kit?

Part two!
I've got lots of work to do on the V. Fairing still needs to be painted, i need to install my fork seals, pull the dents out of the parts tank and paint that. I'm sure theres more but i'm kinda tired to remember. Anyone ever used a stud welder on a gas tank? I figure if i fill the tank totally up with water and leave it full, then weld the studs on there won't be a rapid gas expansion event.

PS
Almost forgot, i ordered a dining room chair memory foam pad to put in my seat, i plan on shaving (depending on how squishy the foam is)  half an inch to an inch from the seat horn back to where the peak of the slope of the second passenger seat is of foam and replacing it with an inch or two of memory foam. Should end up being pretty comfy. I've got a tear in my seat cover though, anyone know where to get a new cover for this?

[Night Vision]

Alright, well i guess my brake system is still messed up after just installing a master cylinder rebuild kit. Instead of the handle creeping toward the grip, it's going the other way, getting harder and harder and applying itself until i have to get off and let the pressure out of the line from the bleeder. I've fully flushed the brake system with brand new dot 3 and it hasnt really gotten any better. Theres play at the brake handle, it's not sticking or dragging, just applying itself over time. I'm not totally square on how motorcycle hydraulic systems work, but with the piston all the way back in the master cylinder, shouldnt excess pressure come out a bleed hole in the cylinder? All i'm getting is raised eyebrows so far, other than "rebuild the brake system again" noones actually had a solution for what i'm having here.
Any tips to save me a 60 dollar caliper rebuild kit?

from what I have read, the piston retracts by rolling back on the square o-ring

I you can't stand spending $60 on a rebuild kit, think of it as.....

not having to replace that Stegosaurus jacket...
not having to buy a new helmet
not worrying about matching the new skin graft colors   :o  ....... get it fixxed right

[Lucky]

it sounds like the master is now working well enough that it's appliying good pressure to the caliper.  that pushes the piston harder & stresses that old caliper o-ring.  time to replace it.

how often do i say that one symptom masks more than one cause?   ::)

[inanecathode]

I guess i'll just throw more money at it and hope that fixes it. This problem wouldnt make me wreck, it'd just waste my front brake pads and kill my gas mileage.
How does more stress on the brake caliper square cut seal equal incrementally building pressure over time?

[fiat-doctor]

You must fix this!  We care about you!

Ok, now it's going to be easy.  When you ride the bike, the pad drags lightly on the rotor (NV is correct, the square o-ring is what retracts the piston).  But if you can "fix" the problem by opening the bleeder, that means the pressure is trapped in the hose(very possible) or in the MC because of a blocked bypass port(very possible).

The way to test to see which is when the brake is good and stuck on, loosen the banjo bolt at the MC.  If the wheel is still stuck, then the problem is the hose.  If it spins freely the problem is the MC.

Now even if the hose is "good", it's not!!!  Yamaha's of this vintage have very spongy hoses and 25 years is way too long.  In fact the 83 owners manual says it should be replaced every 4 years!!??

The MC bypass port is tiny and easy to have plugged either by incorrect rebuild or missed dirt or rubber speck.

Good luck and please don't cut corners with the brakes....  if you get the MC working properly, a new stainless line, and clean and rebuild the caliper, you will not believe how well they work.

Steve