New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)

Started by inanecathode, March 18, 2007, 10:44:00 PM

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Night Vision

inan.... you can also remove the plate on the center of the left side case and turn the crank with 13mm ? socket to see if she turns over...

take the plugs out to make it ... wheeze... easier  :D
if it ain't worth doing it the hard way....
it ain't worth doing it at all - Man Law
;D


if it ain't broke..... take it apart and find out why


don't give up.... don't ever give up - Jimmy Valvano

YellowJacket!

Did someone say wheeze?  I'm a Respiratory Therapist.  I can help!  ;D

David


Living the dream - I am now a Physician Assistant!!   :-)

NewVisionGuy

Quote from: Night Vision on March 27, 2007, 07:59:46 PM
I would try turning the bike over "clicking" the starter... I get tuckered out pushing a 500lb bike very far  :P

I too  get tired  after pushing my V around for a bit.  Last fall, when the stator went out,  I ended up pushing mine two miles.  From now on,  I'm carrying and extra charging system with me when I ride.   ;)     

BTW,   Cathode...  that bike looks remarkable similar to mine.  Nice looking bike.    AWESOME to ride.  I hope you get to experience your Vision on the road soon. 

inanecathode

Ok well, it's all under control now. I got sick of the vision gods tormenting me, so i popped it all the way up into 5th and yarred it forwards and backwards as hard as i could. It went "click/snap" then suddenly rolled free. Thinking "aw crap i probably broke something" i turned it around and rolled it down the driveway, popped the clutch and "putputputputput" weee! Un-s-worded!

Invigorated, i pushed it up my driveway (even after it finally working, thats a long driveway man) threw it up on the stand. I left the old battery in to crank it over to take advantage of whatever juice it had left. I hit the starter and got a rather healthy sounding "yamahamahamahamaha" that gradually got a little slower. Not starting (not suprised, i'd be blown away if it actually started). The fuel filter was only about 1/8th full, and wouldnt move with the petcock on prime. The previous owner at some point put on a lawnmower type fuel filter on it (clear plastic cannister type):
A) It's too big
B) It's installed backwards
C) Theres a huge loop of line going down and back up to the filter

This leads me to believe that theres no way, even with a full tank, that there'd be enough pressure to go through the loop and the filter. (is this a fuel pump i see on the petcock by the way? little diaphragm type?). I drained the fuel out of the tank (smelled good, looked a bit opaque for gas) filled it up by about 3 gallons, still no fuel moving through the filter. I'm planning on taking all the fuel line out (its a bit crispy) and putting a little cone type filter inline.


Part Two:
After i figured that the fuel end of the equation isn't happening, i took the tank off (wow, that's EASY, way to go yamaha), took off the air box cover (what's this vacuum pot thing? cold air controller?). Using a bit of gas from the tank i dribbled a small amount into each carb, opened the throttle, hit the starter "yamahamahama BANG!" backfire nearly gave me a quick shave. A bit more gas into the carbs, opening the choke (lol, oops?), moving of my head from directly above the carbs (lol, oops?), open the throttle and give her a shot "yamahamahama vroooo- putputputput"

She runs!!!!!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

It was too dark to check the plugs or monkey with the lines anymore, so i buttoned it back up to continue later!


[Synopsis for those who dont want to read my essay :P
Gas from tank opaque/orange
Fuel petcock only spat fuel out on res and prime (probably too low fuel level, didnt check it after refueling)
Goofy-ass filter setup, WAY too much line imo
No fuel going through filter, petcock working fine (muppet installed the filter backwards anyway)
With a bit of gas down the carbs it runs :D]


This leads me to beli
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YellowJacket!

I found out that KABANNNGGG can = dirty spark plugs.  I'll bet if you just clean them up a bit, it'll be easier to start.
My guess also is that if your carbs are dirty then your petcock is too and if your petcock is dirty then youyr carbs are as well.  Either way, your carbs are probably dirty.
Also, try draining your tank via the petcock.  IF it drains, on prime, then you are in good shape.  Could be just a crappy in-line filter.
Glad to hear that things are sounding good.  I remember well the first time mine fired up. ;D

David


Living the dream - I am now a Physician Assistant!!   :-)

h2olawyer

The vacuum diaphragm on the petcock is what controls the fuel flow in the ON position. In Prime, the fuel should flow freely.  The fuel pump is located between the carbs.

Did the backfire sound like a rifle shot?  Visions are notorious for that.

Congrats on getting it freed up & started!

H2O
If you have an accident on a motorcycle, it's always your fault. Tough call, but it has to be that way. You're in the right, and dead -on a bike. The principle is not to have any accident. If you're involved in an an accident, it's because you did not anticipate. Then, by default, you failed.

inanecathode

Lol, it's quite a feeling. I think the most satisfactory fire-up i've had was my xt250. That thing WOULD. NOT. START. I finally got fed-up with the yamaha gods and damn near ripped my right leg off kicking it over, but on the very last kick i could muster it started right up!

My plan of action now is to replace the fuel line and install one of those little clear cone sintered broze filters inline, and to take as much slack out of the fuel line as possible. I'll also pull the plugs to check the condition and more than likely clean them up a bit and re-gap them.

Probably a secondary mission is to replace the air filter on this thing, its d-i-r-t-y dirty!

EDIT: Lol, now that you mention it, i saw a few heads go to the windows in the house next door, probably thought i was shooting at them :o (backfire looked cool as hell too, eyebrows may disagree)
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If you can't tell your friend to kiss your ass then they aren't a true friend.
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h2olawyer

Quote from: inanecathode on March 27, 2007, 10:35:16 PM
EDIT: Lol, now that you mention it, i saw a few heads go to the windows in the house next door, probably thought i was shooting at them :o (backfire looked cool as hell too, eyebrows may disagree)

ROFL   :D  :D  :D

That backfire is something to be experienced - from far, far away!

H2O
If you have an accident on a motorcycle, it's always your fault. Tough call, but it has to be that way. You're in the right, and dead -on a bike. The principle is not to have any accident. If you're involved in an an accident, it's because you did not anticipate. Then, by default, you failed.

inanecathode

This suuuuuuuucks, i'm in a handy mood and theres 4 inches of snow on the ground and freezing temperatures. I can't work on the vision until monday :/
The yamaha and weather gods must be consipring i tell ya!
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If you can't tell your friend to kiss your ass then they aren't a true friend.
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Tiger

Quote from: inanecathode on March 29, 2007, 07:45:04 PM
This suuuuuuuucks, i'm in a handy mood and theres 4 inches of snow on the ground and freezing temperatures. I can't work on the vision until monday :/
The yamaha and weather gods must be consipring i tell ya!

...Makes the first ride all the more enjoyable... 8)

                    8).......TIGER....... 8)
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming HOOOOYA lets go again baby !!!!!!

'82 Vision, Pearl Orange finish, lots of up-grades!!!

QBS

The purpose of the long line loop is to not kink.  My '83 has a similar set up (desighned by me).  Been working for many years.  The fuel pump makes it so.  I hide the loop behind the left fairing lower.  Backfires are commonly caused by weak batteries.  Research using a car air filter on the bike.  Several here have done it, including me.  Cost $5.00, is real easy and works as good or better than OEM (more filter area).  Vacume pot thing controls air flap door for stumble control system.

inanecathode

The yamaha gods are indeed against me. On top of a rightly crap day yesterday, i also developed a bit of food poisoning that i ended up going to the hospital over. Hopefully tomorrow should be a bit warmer, and i might be able to get a new fuel filter and some new line in there.

I'm probably going to have to clean out the carbs real well (and get the choke cable freed up as well, it's stuck just like the clutch). Anyone have any tips on tearing down the carbs for a good cleaning and dipping? I dont want to end up destroying any gaskets or rings with the carb soaker.
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If you can't tell your friend to kiss your ass then they aren't a true friend.
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Night Vision

I'd start by getting the jets out first... if they're stuck... you might be stuck.

each carb has three jets. the one on the bottom of the carb is a bugger because it's hard to get a big enough driver in there.

get a spare driver and grind/file the sides down.
you want a good stout screwdriver because those brass jets are prone to stripping...

you want to give them your best shot.... a good quick "snap" turn
do one carb at a time...

others will add their tips
if it ain't worth doing it the hard way....
it ain't worth doing it at all - Man Law
;D


if it ain't broke..... take it apart and find out why


don't give up.... don't ever give up - Jimmy Valvano

h2olawyer

After removing the jets, remove the top of the carb.  Remove the pin holding the float.  Be careful with this step - the posts holding the float pin are prone to breaking.  Find a small drift or other sturdy thing to push with that is just a little smaller than the float pin.  Press the pin out of the posts.  It's kind of tricky but doable.  I've done several.  The first time the pin is removed is the most difficult.  After that, they go in & out a little easier.  Note that the pin has a head on one end so don't push on that end of the pin.

Try to carefully remove the gasket.  There are still some floating around, but are not common.  If you do tear the gasket, you can make a new one out of gasket material from an auto parts store - just take the gasket with you to get the correct thickness.

Remove everything except the butterfly from the carb.  Remove the carb drain screw as well.  there is a rubber o-ring on the screw - remove it & set aside.  Remove the mixture screw.  There should be a spring, washer & a tiny o-ring on that screw as well.  Set that o-ring aside.  Remove all the rubber hoses as well - set them aside.

Carefully, using vise grips, remove the accelerator pump nozzle.  Stay away from the small tube & pull up while rotating it back & forth a little.  Be careful & not allow the small tube to contact the carb body.  They can break off.  Repairable but a real PITA.  There is a small brass weight & a steel ball under the nozzle.  Do not lose them.  Turn carb body upside down with your hand underneath it to catch the weight & ball.  Set them aside - with the rubber parts.  Normally no need to dip them.  Find some picture hanger cable.  Take one strand from the cable & use it to clean out the tip of the nozzle. 

Put all the metal bits in the dip for about 30 minutes.  Remove them & rinse with clean water.  Blow air through all the passages.

Reassemble.

Lucky may have some more hints - he's done more of these than anybody.  I've only done three sets so far.  Will be doing another set this week.

H2O
If you have an accident on a motorcycle, it's always your fault. Tough call, but it has to be that way. You're in the right, and dead -on a bike. The principle is not to have any accident. If you're involved in an an accident, it's because you did not anticipate. Then, by default, you failed.

inanecathode

Does the 82 version have accelerator pumps?
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If you can't tell your friend to kiss your ass then they aren't a true friend.
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h2olawyer

Yes, the 82 version does have accelerator pumps.  If you can find them buried in all that snow!

Actually it is one pump that supplies fuel to both nozzles.  The front carb is supplied via a small hose linking the carbs together.  The pump & actuator are on the rear carb.

H2O
If you have an accident on a motorcycle, it's always your fault. Tough call, but it has to be that way. You're in the right, and dead -on a bike. The principle is not to have any accident. If you're involved in an an accident, it's because you did not anticipate. Then, by default, you failed.

inanecathode

It may be my zonked body/brain, but after putting on the new fuel filter and line, setting the petcock to prime, i can't seem to get the accelerator pumps to pump. Theres a little screw in the bottom right corner of the float bowl (viewing the bike from the left side. When i unscrew that a few turns, fuel starts dumping out of a vent pipe(?) from the bottom of the frame of the bike.

Taking in concideration my zonked brain, can anyone give me a general direction to go in with these carbs? I want to start with the easy problems first, moving to the harder ones.


PS Looks like theres no tubes or screens on the petcock going into the fuel tank. Odd.
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If you can't tell your friend to kiss your ass then they aren't a true friend.
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h2olawyer

The screw you found that leaks after being turned is the carb drain.

The accelerator pump diaphragm may be hosed - or more likely, the nozzles are plugged.

The tube / screen on the petcock is what allows for a reserve function.  Run inlet is higher than reserve.  The screen is sort of a fuel filter.  It's all one piece.

H2O
If you have an accident on a motorcycle, it's always your fault. Tough call, but it has to be that way. You're in the right, and dead -on a bike. The principle is not to have any accident. If you're involved in an an accident, it's because you did not anticipate. Then, by default, you failed.

inanecathode

How can i, or can i, get to the accelerator pump without removing the carbs?
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If you can't tell your friend to kiss your ass then they aren't a true friend.
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Night Vision

I believe you can take the carb tops off without pulling the carbs. make sure you put a paper towl in the throats so nuthin falls in...

you can then pull accel nozzles out.... if you are going to do all that, why don't you

.... dig it out of the avalanche  ::) and clean/dip the carbs...
if it ain't worth doing it the hard way....
it ain't worth doing it at all - Man Law
;D


if it ain't broke..... take it apart and find out why


don't give up.... don't ever give up - Jimmy Valvano