New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)

[h2olawyer]

Good eyes, NV!!!   :o  That would sure cause many of the symptoms he's describing.  I know for a fact it used to be capped off.  Wonder when he lost it?

CHECK THE SIMPLE & OBVIOUS FIRST.   :D

H₂O

[inanecathode]

It is capped though o_O




I put the carbs on today, and made ABSOLUTELY SURE every line was plugged in, petcock was set right. The sync rod is totally zeroed out, the mixture screws are at 3 turns out (DAMN that rear mix screw is a pain to get at). With half or 3/4s choke it start wonderfully and idles impressively smoothly. That's about all it does. It wont rev higher without bogging out unless you eek the throttle up slowly, it doesn't really run above a certain rpm (not sure which, tach dead :/) and it smells pretty rich. It's totally out of tune and sync, i know that, so that's something to get done.

[inanecathode]

Fiiiiive hunnnnnndreth poooooooost

That out of the way, mixture screws still don't seem to be making a huge difference in idle quality, i do detect a tiny change, but unscrewing the thing completely only changes the idle quality a tiny tiny bit.

[zore]

You "zero'd" it out with the idle adjustment screw all the way out and not touching the throttle assymply right?  Can you take a picture of your idle adjustment screw where it is when it's running?

[inanecathode]

Probably 3 turns short of all the way in.
Sync tool is all messed up too, nothings making any freaking sense!

[Night Vision]

It is capped though o_O

hmmm, I've got a pretty good monitor at work and watched that loop lots of times before I made that prognosis.... but,  cappped is capped

[zore]

Well, I can offer you to give me a call some time tomorrow evening with your tools in hand and maybe I can help you out over the phone.  Up too you.  If you have verizon wireless, even better.

[inanecathode]

It is capped though o_O

hmmm, I've got a pretty good monitor at work and watched that loop lots of times before I made that prognosis.... but,  cappped is capped

I know, i've seen it myself and it definitely looks like it doesnt it?

[inanecathode]

Well, I can offer you to give me a call some time tomorrow evening with your tools in hand and maybe I can help you out over the phone.  Up too you.  If you have verizon wireless, even better.

Thanks for the offer mate :D we'll see if h2o can't whip ole miss V into shape.

Im starting to think the intake boots are still leaking. Dig this, for giggles i unplugged the syncing tool and... It still ran, crappier, but still ran. I then plugged both zerts with my fingers, ran alot better. Unplugged the rear one, started running really crappy in a hurry, plugged it. Unplugged the front, and theres no change o_O none at all. I can feel it sucking but theres no change in how it runs from when its plugged off and when its not.
Does that mean anything?
Also worth mentioning when i spray wd over the front boot either it's sucking the stuff in, or its really thin, but i can see it pulsing, kind of beating, pulling and pushing the stuff out of the visible cracks.

[Lucky]

The sync rod is totally zeroed out, the mixture screws are at 3 turns out It's totally out of tune and sync, i know that, so that's something to get done.

of course it's not running right...

synq rod totaly zeroed out: Wrong!  the rod needs to be adjusted so that the mercury, oil, vacuume or whatever tool your using to synq the carbs with are E-V-E-N! the throttle plates on the carbs may be set to open exactly the same but i'll bet you a million dollars the carbs are way out of synq at that point.

3 turns out on the mixture screws is also Wrong! you need to set the synq PROPERLY, then set the pilots as i've described more times than i can remember on this Forum.

"close" isn't close enough. do it right, do it completely, & do it once. Plus, you need to do this, we can explane how to do a job properly, but it is then your job to follow our instructions to the letter, not skipping steps, or assuming one step isn't needed or was just done because it's 'close enough. you'll be asking the same questions forever....

[inanecathode]

The sync rod is totally zeroed out, the mixture screws are at 3 turns out It's totally out of tune and sync, i know that, so that's something to get done.

of course it's not running right...

synq rod totaly zeroed out: Wrong!  the rod needs to be adjusted so that the mercury, oil, vacuume or whatever tool your using to synq the carbs with are E-V-E-N! the throttle plates on the carbs may be set to open exactly the same but i'll bet you a million dollars the carbs are way out of synq at that point.

3 turns out on the mixture screws is also Wrong! you need to set the synq PROPERLY, then set the pilots as i've described more times than i can remember on this Forum.

"close" isn't close enough. do it right, do it completely, & do it once. Plus, you need to do this, we can explane how to do a job properly, but it is then your job to follow our instructions to the letter, not skipping steps, or assuming one step isn't needed or was just done because it's 'close enough. you'll be asking the same questions forever....

It is in sync though, according to the guage. The pilot adjustments still don't do anything... I can't perform the job if the bike won't cooperate :o

[Lucky]

btw, did you get your master cyl kit yet? did mine ship?

[inanecathode]

btw, did you get your master cyl kit yet? did mine ship?

naw havent gotten mine yet, i'll look through the email to see if yours shipped

[Night Vision]

The sync rod is totally zeroed out, the mixture screws are at 3 turns out It's totally out of tune and sync, i know that, so that's something to get done.

of course it's not running right...

sync rod totally zeroed out: Wrong!  the rod needs to be adjusted so that the mercury, oil, vacuum or whatever tool your using to sync the carbs with are E-V-E-N! the throttle plates on the carbs may be set to open exactly the same but i'll bet you a million dollars the carbs are way out of sync at that point.

yep, I agree... I eyeballed the butterflies to be equal and the carbs were not at their final sync adjustment.... but were close enough to get the bike running


3 turns out on the mixture screws is also Wrong! you need to set the sync PROPERLY, then set the pilots as i've described more times than i can remember on this Forum.

three turns out was suggested as a starting point to get the bike running, again it may not be the final adjustment, but if nothing else, it will run and you have a base to count turns

if someone rebuilt or tore down a set of carbs to dip dip them, and had no idea how many turns the pilots were originally set at.... or messed the pilot and sync rod adjustments up while trying to tune the carbs.....

then having the butterflies opening equal, and the pilots out at 3 will allow the bike to run... then the fine tuning can be done using the recommended procedures 

[Lucky]

Just as an FYI, "normal" settings for the pilots can range anywhere from 2.25 turns out to 5.25 turns out.  i've pulled several factory pilot plugs, both 82 & 83 & found both those settings & everything in between, plus all the rebuilds that i've done

[inanecathode]

Well, at the moment i'm stuck. Theres nothing 'wrong' with it, yet its not running right.

[zore]

The sync rod is totally zeroed out, the mixture screws are at 3 turns out It's totally out of tune and sync, i know that, so that's something to get done.

of course it's not running right...

synq rod totally zeroed out: Wrong!  

Actually it's not wrong.  The real idea of syncing the carbs is to ensure that the they open the same amount at the same time.  It's where you absolutely need to start at for a baseline (you never know who was monkeying around in there).  If all things were equal, the throttle plates should open at the exact same amount when you give it throttle.  It's not until you have the idle mixture and all that other aspects correct, that you should mess with that.  Secondly if you do not do it this way, one throttle plate will always be closed more than the other at full throttle.  Either it will open too far or not enough.  Changing the idle mixture will also change vacuum readings with out ever touching the sync rod. 

If you require alot of adjustment on the sync rod to get equal vacuum readings at idle, you really should be looking at other things first.  Vacuum leaks, mixture adjustment, valve adjustment and so on.  If everything is running right the throttle plates for both carbs should look like this   |  | at full throttle  and not like \  |  or |  /  at full throttle.  / | is another possibility or |  \.  And if you really muck it up  you could end up with   \  / or /  \ . 

One last thing.  You will absolutely get equal vacume readings by adjusting the sync rod at any given rpm or throttle position given what that thing actually does.  There is no way around not getting those results unless one cyl simply isn't firing.  So my point is that you could easily be masking some other real issues if you aren't carefull.

[Lucky]

wrong in the fact that equal throttle openings do not equal balanced carbs. other factors such as wear, valve adjustment, even tempurature affect how much the carbs flow & the cyls pull vacuume.

yes it'll get you close, but that ain't close enough...  the idea that synqing is to get them to open the same amount at the same time is wrong, it is to get them to pull THE SAME AMOUNT OF VACUUME.  but hey, there's nothing wrong with his bike, it just won't run right....

[zore]

wrong in the fact that equal throttle openings do not equal balanced carbs. other factors such as wear, valve adjustment, even tempurature affect how much the carbs flow & the cyls pull vacuume.

yes it'll get you close, but that ain't close enough...  the idea that synqing is to get them to open the same amount at the same time is wrong, it is to get them to pull THE SAME AMOUNT OF VACUUME.  but hey, there's nothing wrong with his bike, it just won't run right....

I'm saying that doing it that way can just band aid other problems if you don't address the basics first.  Sure you have equal vacume at idle, but that doesn't mean you're any where close to any of the operating rpms that you actually ride the bike at.  You can have valves out of adjustment and some cracked intake boots and still sync the carbs if you turn that rod enough but chances are it will still run like poop.  If you find that after syncing the throttle plates too each other the way i described, that you end up having to turn the sync rod a whole lot to get the readings you want, you may want to start looking at some other things.  My sync rod is possibly 1 turn away from being my original setting after checking everything else.

You need a starting point and the best starting point is to sync the carbs to each other.  Just because it's a vision doens't mean it defies basic machanical principals.  Clearly his bike has some other issues that may need to be addressed first. 

[inanecathode]

Anyone have any suggestions?