Author Topic: Starter clutch... new caps... still wont fire...  (Read 34903 times)

Night Vision

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Re: Wish me luck/starter clutch, updated with pictures.
« Reply #40 on: May 02, 2007, 09:51:55 PM »
its important that the pulling bolts are even and the puller is centered and squared up to the crank.
if the puller is cockeyed... you'll be fighting physics or some Newton's law  :o

you tighten the center rod as much as you can with a short wrench... no breaker bar here!
tighten... wack... tighten... wack... take it slow and dont be afraid to give it a good soild WACK

Good News - it's amazing how much easier they go back on  :D
if it ain't worth doing it the hard way....
it ain't worth doing it at all - Man Law
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if it ain't broke..... take it apart and find out why


don't give up.... don't ever give up - Jimmy Valvano

dj

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Re: Wish me luck/starter clutch, updated with pictures.
« Reply #41 on: May 02, 2007, 09:55:08 PM »
i'm working on it right now.  trust me i'm giving it some good whacks.
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dj

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Re: Wish me luck/starter clutch, updated with pictures.
« Reply #42 on: May 02, 2007, 10:09:34 PM »
still working at it.  can't believe the darn thing hasn't popped off yet?!?
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Night Vision

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Re: Wish me luck/starter clutch, updated with pictures.
« Reply #43 on: May 02, 2007, 10:16:41 PM »
don't turn your back on it... that's when it pops off and you don';t see where the parts went
if it ain't worth doing it the hard way....
it ain't worth doing it at all - Man Law
 ;D


if it ain't broke..... take it apart and find out why


don't give up.... don't ever give up - Jimmy Valvano

dj

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Re: Wish me luck/starter clutch, updated with pictures.
« Reply #44 on: May 02, 2007, 10:25:22 PM »
HOUSTON WE HAVE A PROBLEM!!!

the center bolt on the puller just bent.

pictures coming soon.  Still haven't gotten the flywheel off yet. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
« Last Edit: May 02, 2007, 10:44:58 PM by dj »
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comatt

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Re: Wish me luck/starter clutch, updated with pictures.
« Reply #45 on: May 03, 2007, 12:19:29 AM »
dj, you may have done this, but did you remove the center bolt that hold the starter clutch on. I could not tell with the pics you had.  I rememer when I did it I had to use a chain visegrip and a wrench to remove the center bolt.  I could be wrong, it has been a while.  Or more likely you already did it.  After I got the center bolt off it only took me a couple of wacks on the puller for it to fly across the room.  I didn't really flew but it did scare the sh#t out of me when it came off.

comatt

dj

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Re: Wish me luck/starter clutch, updated with pictures.
« Reply #46 on: May 03, 2007, 06:13:42 AM »
Comatt - yes the center bolt that goes to through the flywheel is out.
2008 Honda Rebel (Black)

Night Vision

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Re: Wish me luck/starter clutch, updated with pictures.
« Reply #47 on: May 03, 2007, 07:57:08 AM »
yep, it's bent there Jimmy Houston.....

don't panic... couple of things could be going on here....

1) your puller is was crooked and not square to the flywheel
2) your BFH is really a 10lb. sledge... a two or four pound hammer is sufficient...
3) that's a wimpy azz center rod on a Harbor Freight / made in Chiner puller.........
4) the center rod diameter is too big to fit through the hole in the flywheel / not making contact with the end of crank..
5) you are a mighty man
E) all of the above  :D

Good News -  nothing a $20 craftsman puller won't fix.
More Good News - you didn't snap the pulling bolts or strip out the threads in the flywheel.



 
if it ain't worth doing it the hard way....
it ain't worth doing it at all - Man Law
 ;D


if it ain't broke..... take it apart and find out why


don't give up.... don't ever give up - Jimmy Valvano

Lucky

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Re: Wish me luck/starter clutch, updated with pictures.
« Reply #48 on: May 03, 2007, 08:03:28 AM »
#4 sounds very possable.
when i did mine, my puller had a wobbly foot on the end which was too big to sit inside the flywheel, on the crank.  i had to grind this foot off the puller.  i think i used a small hardened bolt in the crank to push on. (so i wouldn't mess up the threads)
1982/3 XZ550 Touring Vison, Gold on Black

dj

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Re: Wish me luck/starter clutch, updated with pictures.
« Reply #49 on: May 03, 2007, 08:32:43 AM »
yep, it's bent there Jimmy Houston.....

don't panic... couple of things could be going on here....

1) your puller is was crooked and not square to the flywheel
2) your BFH is really a 10lb. sledge... a two or four pound hammer is sufficient...
3) that's a wimpy azz center rod on a Harbor Freight / made in Chiner puller.........
4) the center rod diameter is too big to fit through the hole in the flywheel / not making contact with the end of crank..
5) you are a mighty man
E) all of the above  :D

Good News -  nothing a $20 craftsman puller won't fix.
More Good News - you didn't snap the pulling bolts or strip out the threads in the flywheel.

NV

1 is possible, but unlikely.  The puller was flush against the flywheel on all sides when I started tightening it down.

2 - nope, it is my 2.5 pound cross peen that I use for my blacksmithing hammer.  although by the end of a day at the forge it does feel like a 10 pound hammer.

3 - i'll have to go buy a new one from sears (craftsman)

4 - what size should the center rob be?  should I get a bolt to go through the flywheel hole, and if so should it actually partial thread in or just sit in the hole?

5 - you never want to get punched by a blacksmith. ;D

Lucky - did the bolt you used in the hole just sit in the hole or does it need to be long enough to push on something on the inside of the hole?

I guess I am just a little confused on how this actually works.  If someone could clarify things for me (never used a puller before so not sure what it should do).
2008 Honda Rebel (Black)

Lucky

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Re: Wish me luck/starter clutch, updated with pictures.
« Reply #50 on: May 03, 2007, 08:40:07 AM »
the point is that the end of the center bolt (that you tighten & whack) rests on the end of the crankshaft without damaging the threads. 

a couple of grade 8 washers that fit inside the flywheel will work (& if the tip of the bolt is ground to a point it'll center up automaticly)

or a bolt that fits well in the hole & threads, but it'll have to have a small head so it doesn't contact the flwheel.

i think i used a bolt that sat loose in the threads, it was a long time ago & i don't remember..
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Coil Coyle

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Re: Wish me luck/starter clutch, updated with pictures.
« Reply #51 on: May 03, 2007, 09:06:22 AM »
the point is that the end of the center bolt (that you tighten & whack) rests on the end of the crankshaft without damaging the threads. 

a couple of grade 8 washers that fit inside the flywheel will work (& if the tip of the bolt is ground to a point it'll center up automaticly)

or a bolt that fits well in the hole & threads, but it'll have to have a small head so it doesn't contact the flwheel.

i think i used a bolt that sat loose in the threads, it was a long time ago & i don't remember..

I think the original bolt will go through the hole. I remember removing the washer, replacing the bolt and breaking it loose with the foot removed from the puller threaded rod. At least the bolt with the washer removed would allow the flywheel to break loose from the taper and then the bolt could be pulled to remove the crank.
To have pounded that rod sideways you must have been hitting the flywheel in the center as well as the outside. Or the puller was made from very low carbon steel.

$0.02
 ;)
Coil

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Re: Wish me luck/starter clutch, updated with pictures.
« Reply #52 on: May 03, 2007, 09:18:57 AM »
I on the three that I've done, the washer is integrated into the bolt, not separate... otherwise I prolly would have taken the washer off instead or scrounging around for a bolt to fit through the flywheel hole

dj, Don V posted a very comprehensive thread on the flywheel removal. He might have more pics to help you...

basically the three puller bolts go into the flywheel (you got that part) the center rod pushes on the end of the crank (not touching the flywheel) and when you crank and wack... it pulls the flywheel off
if it ain't worth doing it the hard way....
it ain't worth doing it at all - Man Law
 ;D


if it ain't broke..... take it apart and find out why


don't give up.... don't ever give up - Jimmy Valvano

dj

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Re: Wish me luck/starter clutch, updated with pictures.
« Reply #53 on: May 03, 2007, 09:22:57 AM »
Coil - based on the fact that someone already id it as a Harbor Freight POS then it is probably very low carbon and probably not hardened at all.

I'll have to try the flywheel bolt with the washer removed.  after I stop at sears and get a new puller.  :-[

NV - I've checked out Don V's post and thought I new what I was doing.  The problem is that the center bolt on the puller was to wide and didn't fit down in the hole.  It was resting on the flared edge of the hole not on the crankshaft.  I'll be picking up a new puller tonight and then using the center bolt from the flywheel as the washer is not part of the bolt.

Hopefully all goes well tonight for me.
2008 Honda Rebel (Black)

inanecathode

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Re: Wish me luck/starter clutch, updated with pictures.
« Reply #54 on: May 03, 2007, 09:26:57 AM »
I think it's worth mentioning that any hard shocking force ie a hammer can soften hardened tools and bolts. Needless to say (even though you know how to use one) hammer blows arent always accurate, and the nature of the way the tool is struck the hammer would tend to try to cock the puller off at an angle.
My two cents is get a BF breaker bar and a BF cheater bar, OR even better, go rent an impact gun and use that instead. The hammering effect of an impact is perfectly radial, no chance of bending the bolt, and they tend to be alot stronger than a hammer would be (sorry dj!).
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Coil Coyle

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Re: Wish me luck/starter clutch, updated with pictures.
« Reply #55 on: May 03, 2007, 09:34:16 AM »
I on the three that I've done, the washer is integrated into the bolt, not separate... otherwise I prolly would have taken the washer off instead or scrounging around for a bolt to fit through the flywheel hole

dj, Don V posted a very comprehensive thread on the flywheel removal. He might have more pics to help you...

basically the three puller bolts go into the flywheel (you got that part) the center rod pushes on the end of the crank (not touching the flywheel) and when you crank and wack... it pulls the flywheel off

Then I must have replaced the stock bolt with a matching hex head and pressed on the head with the ball that ends the push rod when the foot is removed.

If that was a very strong puller you may have bent your flywheel.

The advantage of the hammer blow is the shock wave that spreads from the crank taper into the flywheel taper and back.



« Last Edit: May 03, 2007, 09:44:18 AM by coilXZcoyle »

Night Vision

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Re: Wish me luck/starter clutch, updated with pictures.
« Reply #56 on: May 03, 2007, 09:35:49 AM »
umm..... I said it could be a HF puller... hope you don't owe someone a Snap-on puller  :o

if you do use the original crank bolt, and it does go through the hole, be careful that you can thread it all the way in flush against the crank... you don't want to bend or snap the bolt or stress any of the treads... or weaken the bolt

that's why I used a shorter sacrificial bolt... or try the washers... or just a nut...

I think you'll gitrdun 2 nite.
if it ain't worth doing it the hard way....
it ain't worth doing it at all - Man Law
 ;D


if it ain't broke..... take it apart and find out why


don't give up.... don't ever give up - Jimmy Valvano

don_vanecek

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Re: Wish me luck/starter clutch, updated with pictures.
« Reply #57 on: May 03, 2007, 10:09:54 AM »
The sacrificial bolt is the lone bolt in my picture.

Say, I was wondering if anyone has an opinion on this, when I was fooled that my flywheel bolt was all the way back on (but it was not!) are the threads you might say stressed when this is done? I was worried by the amount of force I need to put it back on. I had my torque wrench to 60 lbs the first time I tightened it back up, but I was still 2 or 3 mms short (as I later found out). I was up to 80 lbs the second time before I prayed it was tight and I was also afraid I was going to strip it!

Sign me just curious.

dj

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Re: Wish me luck/starter clutch, updated with pictures.
« Reply #58 on: May 07, 2007, 07:35:13 AM »
Haven’t updated this in a few days, so here goes.

No progress has been made! :(

I have learned not to work on the bike when being distracted by other things.  So, here is the back story about how my end of last week went.

It all started on Friday (which is a non duty day for me (4 by 10’s)) and I had to take the truck to the garage down the street to finally get it reinspected after having it sit in the driveway for 2 months while fixing it.

Well my wife was in front of me in the car with the kids with her and I was driving the truck.  The garage was only maybe 5-8 miles down the road.  Well we get about 2 miles from the house and by then a nice long line of traffic had formed behind us.  We were doing the posted speed limit of 50, but everybody tries to go 60 on that road.  Well we get to the next town, where the garage is, and signal for the left turn and start slowing down do turn into the garages parking lot.

Well the dumbass behind me in line was driving with her head up her ass and smashed into my rear end.  SHE THEN DROVE OFF!  I’m out of the car by then to look at the damage and the car behind her follows her and calls her plate number in to the cops.  About a minute after the accident a cop pulls up, he was farther back in the line of traffic.  He gets out of his car and I explain what happened, gave a description of the car and he radioed it in to dispatch, but by that point the other driver had already called it in and the cops were already chasing her down.  They finally got her stopped about 15 miles up the road doing 80 in a 35.  She pulled over and then started to run!

Well all in all the truck didn’t take much damage.  The bumper isn’t as pretty as it was earlier in the day and the left corner of the bed was crunched in pretty good.  Something off her car actually put a hole in the tailgate, and the tailgate won’t open now (the corner of the bed is pressed up underneath the corner of it.  But nobody got hurt.

Well, this all happened before 0900.  We finally got everything done with the cops and the garage started working on fixing what needed to be fixed to get the truck inspected.  Truck is back on the road and LEGAL now.

So later on in the day I start back in on trying to get the flywheel off the bike.  Beautiful weather out, with only a slight cool breeze.  I put the puller on the flywheel and tighten it down, give it a smack, tighten it down, give it a smack...  I do this for about 10 minutes and all a sudden one of the bolts comes shooting out of the flywheel like a bullet.  I find the puller bolt and go oh cr@p as I can see that it pulled the threads from the hole along with it.

So not only is the flywheel still on the bike, but one of the holes is stripped out.  I don’t know if this was something I did or if the threads in the hole were weakened from the last debacle with my father-in-laws puller that I bent.  So now, I am trying to decide whether or not I should go out and buy a tap set or just take it somewhere now that the truck is back on the road.

Sorry for being so long winded.
2008 Honda Rebel (Black)

Night Vision

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Re: Wish me luck/starter clutch, updated with pictures.
« Reply #59 on: May 07, 2007, 08:19:04 AM »
I went back through all the posts and saw that Comatt did wish you luck... not sure if it was enough... so here's 'smor...

good luck....

I just don't what else to say.. 
if it ain't worth doing it the hard way....
it ain't worth doing it at all - Man Law
 ;D


if it ain't broke..... take it apart and find out why


don't give up.... don't ever give up - Jimmy Valvano

 

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