Author Topic: Starter clutch... new caps... still wont fire...  (Read 34292 times)

dj

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Re: Wish me luck/starter clutch, updated with pictures.
« Reply #60 on: May 07, 2007, 08:26:19 AM »
Okay, here is some questions.

How hard is it to use a tap and how do you use one?  How much do tap sets usually cost?

I am figuring that with my curent string of "luck" with the bike I am better off just to rent a small trailer and get the bike over to the bike shop.  Still haven't decided yet.  My grandfather might have a tap set and I might be able to get my father to come over some day this week to help me, he was a mechanic in the military and is very good with vehicles.  He hasn't worked on bikes before, but he can do just about anything with working on a cage.
2008 Honda Rebel (Black)

inanecathode

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Re: Wish me luck/starter clutch, updated with pictures.
« Reply #61 on: May 07, 2007, 12:37:37 PM »
Not sure if using heat on a flywheel is kosher or not, but thats always helped when i have something stuck.
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dj

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Re: Wish me luck/starter clutch, updated with pictures.
« Reply #62 on: May 07, 2007, 12:48:33 PM »
Not sure if using heat on a flywheel is kosher or not, but thats always helped when i have something stuck.

Cathode - I don't think the flywheel is actually stuck.  I think my problems are all steming from the fact that when I was using my father-in-laws puller I forgot to use a bolt for the puller to push on.  So the original puller was putting way to much stress on the three holes instead of putting the pressure on the drive shaft to pull the flywheel off.

What I am most worried about is that the other two holes are weakened as well and that they may strip out.

Would it be a good idea to tap all three holes out to make sure that they will be able to handle the stress of the puller?  I think I am just going to cut my loses and put the bike in the shop.  There is a local shop that is run by a fellow Air Guard member and he makes sure to take good care of the Air Force/Army people in the area.  He gives a discount on labor charges and also on buying parts.  Depending on the type of part we can get it for as little as 15-20% above his cost.
2008 Honda Rebel (Black)

Night Vision

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Re: Wish me luck/starter clutch, updated with pictures.
« Reply #63 on: May 07, 2007, 04:46:59 PM »
This may be an option for whoever you take the V to. Let them decide what the best way to get that puppy off...

...... but they make a different type of puller that could possibly work. The other type of puller I'm thinking about has two claws that grab onto the backside of what you're trying to pull off and still has the center rod. I think it's just called a gear puller? I used one to take the harmonic balancer off the 944 I had when I did the timing belt and water pump.

my brain is mush right now and can't do better than that description... maybe someone else can step in and opine if that would even work and the correct name.

if it ain't worth doing it the hard way....
it ain't worth doing it at all - Man Law
 ;D


if it ain't broke..... take it apart and find out why


don't give up.... don't ever give up - Jimmy Valvano

dj

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Re: Wish me luck/starter clutch, updated with pictures.
« Reply #64 on: May 07, 2007, 04:56:39 PM »
NV - my brain is mush to right now.  So we are on the same wavelength.  I know what a gear puller is.  However, the Haynes manual specifically states not to use a gear puller as "damage will be caused"...

I left a message for the guy on base to just get a rough estimate of how long of a wait before he'll be able to work on it and how much I'll be looking at for labor.  Not worried about parts because I don't think there is to much that is wrong with the starter clutch.  Most likely the bolts are loose or the springs are weak (as Lucky suggested).  Hardware kits for the starter clutch run for around 35-40 dollars online.
2008 Honda Rebel (Black)

Tiger

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Re: Wish me luck/starter clutch, updated with pictures.
« Reply #65 on: May 07, 2007, 05:02:54 PM »
:) N_V...its a gear puller ;) They come in several different size's. I use a 3 jaw, 6" gear puller...(Looks like one of those crane's that grab soft toy's at the fair's ;D :D :D)...Works really well and you dont use the three threaded holes in the flywheel...or two in DJ's case ;D ;D :D :D :D :D... ;) I prefer this type of puller.

                     8).......TIGER....... 8)
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming HOOOOYA lets go again baby !!!!!!

'82 Vision, Pearl Orange finish, lots of up-grades!!!

Lucky

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Re: Wish me luck/starter clutch, updated with pictures.
« Reply #66 on: May 07, 2007, 05:50:56 PM »
I'd say if the Haynes manual says don't use it, don't.  my experience as a mechanic agrees.

my suggestion:
have the shop tap the hole for a larger bolt, i wouldn't go helicoil on this one, but you might go to an american size just because 1) the taps are more redily avalable, & 2) you may be able to go up a size without going too far (i.e. the next american size may be halfway between the next metric...follow?) a 'half size' bolt should still fit in the puller too.

have the shop do it because they are more experienced at it. probably a good idea to have them do all three.

BE SURE THEY DON'T DRILL TOO FAR & DAMMAGE THE STARTER CLUTCH COVER. make this clear to them (people don't listen)

i'd say at this point have them use an impact gun to pull the balancer off. they are halfway there with the job anyway.  if your friend is really a friend, he will let you be there & learn, as well as make sure what you've learned here is properly applied.  it's your bike & you are paying them, so you be on top of things.

--Lucky
1982/3 XZ550 Touring Vison, Gold on Black

Night Vision

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Re: Wish me luck/starter clutch, updated with pictures.
« Reply #67 on: May 07, 2007, 09:23:29 PM »
:) N_V...its a gear puller ;) They come in several different size's. I use a 3 jaw, 6" gear puller...(Looks like one of those crane's that grab soft toy's at the fair's ;D :D :D)...Works really well and you dont use the three threaded holes in the flywheel...or two in DJ's case ;D ;D :D :D :D :D... ;) I prefer this type of puller.

so Tiger; you have used the 3 jawed puller to remove the flywheel?
and not suffered any noticeable damage?

honestly, I can see the 3 jawed puller being a viable alternative, bypassing the venerable threaded holes (like all those fancy words? I unmushed my brain by taking SmokeBomb for a spin tonight, first ride since last Sunday  :D )

the only damage I could foresee is not getting the jaws pass the edges of the magnetic part of the flywheel.. (I don't have one in front of me to look at, so I'm going by memory) seems like if the jaws were engaged far enough into/onto the back side of the flywheel, it would be the same as pulling on the three holes...

dj/Lucky... I'm not trying to go against somebody else's better judgment.... I'm just curious
if it ain't worth doing it the hard way....
it ain't worth doing it at all - Man Law
 ;D


if it ain't broke..... take it apart and find out why


don't give up.... don't ever give up - Jimmy Valvano

Tiger

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Re: Wish me luck/starter clutch, updated with pictures.
« Reply #68 on: May 08, 2007, 06:01:32 AM »
so Tiger; you have used the 3 jawed puller to remove the flywheel? and not suffered any noticeable damage?

 :) Correct, on both counts 8) I've used the three jaw puller 2 or 3 times now for the "V" flywheel removal and (personally) prefer this type compared to a harmonic puller...which I also have. You have to make sure that the 3 jaws are properly located and everything is in line before tightening the center bolt and I do this with an impact gun...makes for an easier/quicker job, (the old hands have a touch of some form of arthritis ::) )
I (personally) see no reason not to use this kind of puller...just my experience as... ;) But hey, I've been wrong before, sooooo......

                                 8).......TIGER....... 8)


Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming HOOOOYA lets go again baby !!!!!!

'82 Vision, Pearl Orange finish, lots of up-grades!!!

dj

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Re: Wish me luck/starter clutch, updated with pictures.
« Reply #69 on: May 08, 2007, 07:01:02 AM »
BE SURE THEY DON'T DRILL TOO FAR & DAMMAGE THE STARTER CLUTCH COVER. make this clear to them (people don't listen)
i'd say at this point have them use an impact gun to pull the balancer off. they are halfway there with the job anyway.--Lucky

I'm going to make this point crystal clear for them.

Got a question for you Lucky.  The bike shop that I am going to be taking my V to most likely doesn't have any manuals for this bike.  Would it be okay if I lent them my CD so they can have use of a Haynes manual while working on the bike?  I'll make sure to tell them not to copy anything.

Or would you prefer that I just print out the sections that they might need?
2008 Honda Rebel (Black)

Lucky

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Re: Wish me luck/starter clutch, updated with pictures.
« Reply #70 on: May 08, 2007, 07:45:46 AM »
i'd prefer to only sell them to ROV members, you can print out the pages for him.  when they ask where you got the service manual, tell them you have a great support group   ;D

ok Tiger, if it worked for you, that's good to know!

--Lucky
1982/3 XZ550 Touring Vison, Gold on Black

dj

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Re: Wish me luck/starter clutch, updated with pictures.
« Reply #71 on: May 08, 2007, 08:20:08 AM »
Sounds good Lucky.  I'll just print out the small sections that they will need.
2008 Honda Rebel (Black)

dj

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Re: Wish me luck/starter clutch, updated with pictures.
« Reply #72 on: May 10, 2007, 09:43:22 AM »
so Tiger; you have used the 3 jawed puller to remove the flywheel? and not suffered any noticeable damage?

 :) Correct, on both counts 8) I've used the three jaw puller 2 or 3 times now for the "V" flywheel removal and (personally) prefer this type compared to a harmonic puller...which I also have. You have to make sure that the 3 jaws are properly located and everything is in line before tightening the center bolt and I do this with an impact gun...makes for an easier/quicker job, (the old hands have a touch of some form of arthritis ::) )
I (personally) see no reason not to use this kind of puller...just my experience as... ;) But hey, I've been wrong before, sooooo......

                                 8).......TIGER....... 8)

Tiger - where do the jaws need to be placed to be "properly placed".  I am having my wife pick up a 6" gear puller to try it your way.  I am assuming that you still need to put a bolt through the center of the flywheel to push on with the puller.  Let me know if there is anything specific that needs to be done to use this type of puller.
2008 Honda Rebel (Black)

Tiger

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Re: Wish me luck/starter clutch, updated with pictures.
« Reply #73 on: May 10, 2007, 03:36:52 PM »
Tiger - where do the jaws need to be placed to be "properly placed".  I am having my wife pick up a 6" gear puller to try it your way.  I am assuming that you still need to put a bolt through the center of the flywheel to push on with the puller.  Let me know if there is anything specific that needs to be done to use this type of puller.
:) d.j...You need to make sure the THREE jaws sit nice and snug against the rear of the flywheel and the puller bolt is center to the shaft.

Snug it and square it up by hand/eye, then gradually tighten up with your tool of choice...Hand wrench, socket, impact wrench...Once you have a  goodly amount of tightness  :P...you should be alternating between tightening and giving the flywheel one good whack with a decent size of hammer, (dead blow preferred but not mandatory ;) )

Be very aware of what you are doing because when it lets loose you DO NOT want any of your body parts in the way :o Trust me, I think the flywheel is 50% of the "V"s weight!!! but flies like an I.C.B.M. ;D :D :D :D... ;)

 ;) I put a couple of old sheets and bath towels under the "V" to catch the flywheel/springs/roller/s...finger(s), etc.

Good luck and keep us posted...

                                  8).......TIGER....... 8)
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming HOOOOYA lets go again baby !!!!!!

'82 Vision, Pearl Orange finish, lots of up-grades!!!

dj

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Re: Wish me luck/starter clutch, updated with pictures.
« Reply #74 on: May 10, 2007, 03:41:09 PM »
The wife said that she can pick it up on tuesday when I get paid.  Until then I'll have to just putter around with taking the tank off and trying to get the petcock out.  It is busted, but the darn screws that hold it on the tank are all screwed up.  I'll also take the carbs off and check them out to see if they need to be cleaned again.  And I still need to remount the fairing.  So I have a few things to tide me over until tuesday night when she gets the puller.

I am also supposed to be mowing the lawn tonight, but I don't know how much I'll feel like doing that, I could be using the light to work on the bike!  ;D
2008 Honda Rebel (Black)

Tiger

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Re: Wish me luck/starter clutch, updated with pictures.
« Reply #75 on: May 10, 2007, 03:55:44 PM »
I am also supposed to be mowing the lawn tonight...
Quote

...As long as you don't smoke the grass... :o ;D ;D :D :D :D :D :D... ;) (Re other post!!!). Hmmmm, then again :D :D... ;)

                                    8).......TIGER....... 8)                 
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming HOOOOYA lets go again baby !!!!!!

'82 Vision, Pearl Orange finish, lots of up-grades!!!

dj

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  • Posts: 874
  • Wasn't I a cute baby?!?
Re: Wish me luck/starter clutch, updated with pictures.
« Reply #76 on: May 10, 2007, 04:05:40 PM »
I am also supposed to be mowing the lawn tonight...
Quote

...As long as you don't smoke the grass... :o ;D ;D :D :D :D :D :D... ;) (Re other post!!!). Hmmmm, then again :D :D... ;)

                                    8).......TIGER....... 8)                 

Tiger, I'm in the military. I can't be doing that.  Never know what type of effect the dandylions will have on you if you smoke them!  :o
2008 Honda Rebel (Black)

dj

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Re: Wish me luck/starter clutch, updated with pictures.
« Reply #77 on: May 14, 2007, 08:05:01 AM »
Well, didn't get a chance to work on the bike much this weekend.  :'(

I had to work on yard work on Friday and Saturday.  Suday I went to church in the morning and stopped off at my in-laws house for awhile.  My wife and I are boarding our pony over in their barn.  Had to muck the stall out.

Borrowed a gear puller from my father-in-law, but it was to small and the jaws were the old wide type so they wouldn't have slipped in behind the flywheel anyway.

Still need to get the tank off and check the carbs out (cleaned them last year, but want to check them again anyway).  Also need to try and get the petcock of the tank.

Also have to schedule the truck to go to the body shop this week when the insurance check comes in.  Got rearended in a hit and run (the cops found the idiot though) and trashed the bumber and the left side of the bed.  Did over $3,000.00 dollars worth of damage to the rear end.
2008 Honda Rebel (Black)

inanecathode

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Re: Wish me luck/starter clutch, updated with pictures.
« Reply #78 on: May 14, 2007, 11:29:58 AM »
Muck!
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If you can't tell your friend to kiss your ass then they aren't a true friend.
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dj

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Re: Wish me luck/starter clutch, updated with pictures.
« Reply #79 on: May 14, 2007, 11:36:32 AM »
Muck!

Yeah it is a nice way of saying that I had to shovel out the sh!t and p!ssed on shavings.  ;D  The   joys of having animals.
2008 Honda Rebel (Black)

 

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