Starter clutch... new caps... still wont fire...

Started by dj, April 30, 2007, 11:24:54 AM

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GT @ oh.


dj

It might (read did) take me longer then the average person would with this (getting the darn flywheel off), but I am way to stubborn for my own good sometimes.  Just in this case it actually should pay off to be stubborn.  I just need to get the flywheel back on after I get some food in my stomach (still haven't had supper yet).  I've been getting the kids fed and ready for bed.

I can't wait to get back outside and get the flywheel back on the bike.  I can't believe that it took me two weeks to get the flywheel off and after one day I am putting it back on.   ;D  Just doesn't seem right for some reason. ::)
2008 Honda Rebel (Black)

inanecathode

All you need is rov! *da nanananaaaa* All you need is rov, rov. All you need is rov.
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If you can't tell your friend to kiss your ass then they aren't a true friend.
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dj

Quote from: inanecathode on May 19, 2007, 11:04:33 PM
All you need is rov! *da nanananaaaa* All you need is rov, rov. All you need is rov.

LOL!!!

Haven't made any more progress on the bike yet.  It started raining again last night, so I put off putting the flywheel back on the bike until today.  Well after church this morning the truck started to make a squeeling noise, so I thought the power steering fluid was low.  Stopped off and bought some and opened the hood of the truck to top off the steering fluid and a bunch of steam rolled out of the engine and coolant was gushing out of the truck.  Drove the truck over to my father-in-law's house and let the truck cool off and let things dry up a bit so I could see where the coolant was leaking from.

Well it looks like the new water pump that we just replaced 18 months ago is now needing to be replaced.  Back at home after a very tense 15 mile drive, hoping the whole time that the truck didn't seize up on me.  The temp stayed in a tolarable range (didn't get above 230).

Gotta get the kids some food and then hopefully get the flywheel back on the bike.
2008 Honda Rebel (Black)

inanecathode

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
If you can't tell your friend to kiss your ass then they aren't a true friend.
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

dj

Well, things don't look so good right now.  The shaft where the bolt and washer go to torque down the flywheel/starter clutch is stripped out.   :'( :'( :'(

So, what are my options?  Is this fixable, does anybody have this part if it can't be fixed, and what am I looking at getting into if I have to replace this part (full engine dissasemble???)?

Please give me some advice as to what I need to do next.
2008 Honda Rebel (Black)

inanecathode

This is just thinking outloud, but it might be possible to re-tap the hole you have now.
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
If you can't tell your friend to kiss your ass then they aren't a true friend.
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

dj

Quote from: inanecathode on May 20, 2007, 09:29:14 PM
This is just thinking outloud, but it might be possible to re-tap the hole you have now.

I'm hoping that this is the case.
2008 Honda Rebel (Black)

Night Vision

if it ain't worth doing it the hard way....
it ain't worth doing it at all - Man Law
;D


if it ain't broke..... take it apart and find out why


don't give up.... don't ever give up - Jimmy Valvano

dj

Quote from: Night Vision on May 20, 2007, 09:42:50 PM
do a google or eBay search on " thread chaser "

Never heard of a tread chaser before.  I'm not sure what I am looking for.  I've gone through a few pages of a google search and have no idea what I am looking at.  Please help!
2008 Honda Rebel (Black)

Lucky

the piece the flywheel slides on, & the bolt goes into is the crankshaft.

first, have you stripped out the threads on the bolt or the threads the crankshaft?

you have 3 choices:

1) if it's the bolt, replace it with a bolt of the same grade.
2) if it's the crankshaft, tap it out to the next size
3) if it's the crankshaft, use a helicoil insert.

if it's the bolt, it's an easy fix, get a new bolt.
if it's the crankshaft, i'd go with the helicoil.  they are made to take the torque intended for the size bolt, and are stronger than the missing material. they WORK and are really not a big deal to install.

--Lucky
1982/3 XZ550 Touring Vison, Gold on Black

dj

2008 Honda Rebel (Black)

Night Vision

you might be able to get away with something like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-14-18-mm-Spark-Plug-Thread-Chaser-Tool_W0QQitemZ280115530419QQihZ018QQcategoryZ82248QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

but you need to find a 10mm x 1.25 pitch one...

I'm just throwing this out there to see what anyone else thinks... you really aren't cutting new threads... just cleaning up the ones that are snickered...
if it ain't worth doing it the hard way....
it ain't worth doing it at all - Man Law
;D


if it ain't broke..... take it apart and find out why


don't give up.... don't ever give up - Jimmy Valvano

dj

Quote from: Night Vision on May 20, 2007, 09:59:42 PM
you might be able to get away with something like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-14-18-mm-Spark-Plug-Thread-Chaser-Tool_W0QQitemZ280115530419QQihZ018QQcategoryZ82248QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

but you need to find a 10mm x 1.25 pitch one...

I'm just throwing this out there to see what anyone else thinks... you really aren't cutting new threads... just cleaning up the ones that are snickered...

Thanks for the idea NV.  I'm not sure if the threads are stripped out or if they are just rounded over.  All I know is that when I was torqueing down the bolt it would get tight and then feel loose again (like it is stripped).
2008 Honda Rebel (Black)

Lucky

the thing with a thread chaser is that you need to have threads left to chase, & then appliying torque to those threads is a bad idea.  you need good, fully formed threads to apply signifigant torque.  spark plugs take what? 12lbs of torque, flywheel bolt is probably more in the neighborhood of 55lbs or so.
1982/3 XZ550 Touring Vison, Gold on Black

dj

Quote from: Lucky on May 20, 2007, 09:51:41 PM
the piece the flywheel slides on, & the bolt goes into is the crankshaft.

first, have you stripped out the threads on the bolt or the threads the crankshaft?

you have 3 choices:

1) if it's the bolt, replace it with a bolt of the same grade.
2) if it's the crankshaft, tap it out to the next size
3) if it's the crankshaft, use a helicoil insert.

if it's the bolt, it's an easy fix, get a new bolt.
if it's the crankshaft, i'd go with the helicoil.  they are made to take the torque intended for the size bolt, and are stronger than the missing material. they WORK and are really not a big deal to install.

--Lucky

Okay Lucky, I just checked things out.  I knew that the threads on the bolt were rounded over, but I just took a long look at the threads on the crankshaft and they are just about non-existent.  Can barely tell that there were threads in there to begin with.

So it looks like I need a new bolt and the helicoil thingy.  I'll have to look around and see where to get them.  Any idea what size I am looking for?  I have no idea what a helicoil is, so like the chaser I don't really know what I should be looking for.  There aren't even enough threads to even worry about trying to clean up.
2008 Honda Rebel (Black)

Lucky

i have to look this up, hang on...

the size is M10 x 1.25 torque is 58 ft lbs (80 nm)

get one with a hardness rating of at least 8

how to use a helicoil:
http://www.roadstarmagazine.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=233
the page takes a bit to load

--Lucky
1982/3 XZ550 Touring Vison, Gold on Black

dj

Thanks Lucky.  I am doing so reading online to find out how these things work and how to install them.  Looks pretty straight forward, but so did the starter clutch repair!  :o
2008 Honda Rebel (Black)

dj

Lucky (and all the rest of you experts out there),

     Since the threads on the crankshaft and bolt are all fubar'ed and I'll have to tap out the hole anyway to use the helicoil why wouldn't I just tap the hole out to the next size up and geta new bolt?  Just asking as I already have the tap wrench, but I would need to find a tap for the new bolt.

     Since the original bolt is a 10mm X 1.25 pitch would I want to find an 11mm X 1.25 pitch?  Would that be the next size up to use.  Would that be enough of a jump up in size to make good threads for the bolt that I'll need to get?

     Let me know if this makes sense, or if my brain is finally turning to mush from the lack of decent sleep.
2008 Honda Rebel (Black)

Lucky

KISS  don't complicate things with a larger bolt (making the crankshaft wall thinner, larger bolt means higher torque, plus next commonly ava size up is 12mm, big diff....  larger diameter bolt with the same length means that achiving the same torque strength requires a much higher torque, etc, etc, etc...)
1982/3 XZ550 Touring Vison, Gold on Black