Author Topic: How does the starter clutch work?  (Read 9116 times)

dj

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How does the starter clutch work?
« on: June 09, 2007, 10:19:44 AM »
I have been working on my bike for the better part of a year now and still can't get the darn thing to start.  I've done the starter clutch repair and still won't crank the engine over.

I drained the oil back out and with the crank case off gave a quick push of the start button to see if everything is turning.  And it does, very fast, but it wont turn the flywheel.

The gear on the starter motor is turning clockwise, the idler gear is turning counter clockwise (of course it does), and by defualt the large idler gear turns clockwise.  Is this correct?

With the small idler gear out I can only turn the large idler gear by hand in a clockwise direction, it wont budge going couner clockwise.  Is this correct?  I think it is.

When I had the flywheel and starterclutch off the bike I checked everything out.  No flat spots on the rollers, no damage to the springs, replaced the starter clutch bolts, put locktite on them and peened them over.

The only thing I wasn't sure about was how much tension the springs were supposed to have.  With the flywheel off and the starter clutch side up I can push the rollers back into the gap with little to no effort at all.  All three springs feel like they have the same tension, so I assumed that they were good still.  Should they be able to push in this easily?  Should I take the flywheel back off and get new springs?

Any help at this point would be much appreciated as I am about ready to snap!
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Night Vision

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Re: How does the starter clutch work?
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2007, 11:46:17 AM »
when you had the starter clutch out, did you notice any cracks? seems to be a rash of that going around
if it ain't worth doing it the hard way....
it ain't worth doing it at all - Man Law
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dj

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Re: How does the starter clutch work?
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2007, 02:52:53 PM »
when you had the starter clutch out, did you notice any cracks? seems to be a rash of that going around

Nope, no cracks or flat spots on the rollers.  The only thing that I didn't know if it was right was the amount of "spring" in the springs.  They are all the same height and take the same amount (guessing as I tested this by hand) of pressure to compress them.
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Night Vision

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Re: How does the starter clutch work?
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2007, 03:37:37 PM »
have you consider building an altar and offering a scarifice?   :o :o :o

you say that the clutch grabs in the clockwise direction when the gear is turned by hand... but spinning it clockwise with the starter, and it doesn't catch makes no sense at all unless the clutch is cracked and/or you need new springs, caps and rollers...

perhaps the clutch is cracked on the side that is covered by the "tin plate" ?

if it's not cracked, then try new springs, caps, and rollers? that's the only moving parts in the stupid thing
 
if it ain't worth doing it the hard way....
it ain't worth doing it at all - Man Law
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if it ain't broke..... take it apart and find out why


don't give up.... don't ever give up - Jimmy Valvano

kwells

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Re: How does the starter clutch work?
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2007, 03:40:59 PM »
I know the cause escapes you ( and thus far us) but the effect is that it doesnt function correctly.  Perhaps a cheap replacement could be in order here.
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Lucky

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Re: How does the starter clutch work?
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2007, 04:47:27 PM »
plus, you can't allways see the cracks easily....
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Evan

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Re: How does the starter clutch work?
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2007, 05:52:25 PM »
Since I have the side cover off, I just took a look.  It seems your directions are backwards.  I hit the starter, and it turns counter-clockwise, idler clockwise, crank counter-clockwise.

Is your battery hooked-up backwards?  Or ??

dj

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Re: How does the starter clutch work?
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2007, 06:45:15 PM »
Since I have the side cover off, I just took a look.  It seems your directions are backwards.  I hit the starter, and it turns counter-clockwise, idler clockwise, crank counter-clockwise.

Is your battery hooked-up backwards?  Or ??

The starter motor is turing to the right (clockwise), the small idler gear is turning counterclockwise, and the large idler gear is turing clockwise.  I just checked it again and these are the directions that they are turing.  I have the cables hooked up right.
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dj

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Re: How does the starter clutch work?
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2007, 06:49:11 PM »
have you consider building an altar and offering a scarifice?   :o :o :o

you say that the clutch grabs in the clockwise direction when the gear is turned by hand... but spinning it clockwise with the starter, and it doesn't catch makes no sense at all unless the clutch is cracked and/or you need new springs, caps and rollers...

perhaps the clutch is cracked on the side that is covered by the "tin plate" ?

if it's not cracked, then try new springs, caps, and rollers? that's the only moving parts in the stupid thing
 

Anything specific to sacrifice to appease the gremlins that have nested in my bike?

Nope, large idler gear will only turn clockwise (turing it to the right) it grabs when turing it counterclockwise (to the left).
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dj

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Re: How does the starter clutch work?
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2007, 07:30:43 PM »
Well, since I have already taken the flywheel back off I decided to take off the large idler gear to see how it turns by hand.  With it slipped in the back side of the starter clutch it will only turn to the right (while looking at the front of the flywheel.  It grabs going to the left, but turns freely to the right.  If I hold the flywheel in my lap with the idler gear on top and turn it to the right I can actually see the rollers going farther into their slots.
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Evan

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Re: How does the starter clutch work?
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2007, 07:34:11 PM »
From everything I know, and can tell, the crank turns towards the front of the bike (counter-clockwise from the left side of the bike), which makes sense with what you are seeing with the starter clutch.

How did you manage to get a starter that turns backwards?  Is this a "down-under" thing?

dj

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Re: How does the starter clutch work?
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2007, 07:39:26 PM »
From everything I know, and can tell, the crank turns towards the front of the bike (counter-clockwise from the left side of the bike), which makes sense with what you are seeing with the starter clutch.

How did you manage to get a starter that turns backwards?  Is this a "down-under" thing?


Not from down under.  I'm from Maine (north east USA).  Maybe I should take the starter motor off again and see if I possibly put something in backwards.  I'm pretty much stumped here, because from what mine is doing I don't see how it will ever engage the crank.  With the large idler gear beingturned to the right it will never grab and turn the flywheel.  Something must be backwards.

So, from what I can tell of how this thing should work...

It should crank counter clock wise and when the proper centrifugal force is applied the rollers go up into the slots and allow the idler gear to freewheel and the compression of the engine keeps the crank turning.  Is this correct?
« Last Edit: June 09, 2007, 07:41:30 PM by dj »
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dj

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Re: How does the starter clutch work?
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2007, 08:23:59 PM »
I know the cause escapes you ( and thus far us) but the effect is that it doesnt function correctly.  Perhaps a cheap replacement could be in order here.

What did you mean by cheap replacement?
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Billy Bob

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Re: How does the starter clutch work?
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2007, 09:19:45 PM »
I had the same problem with my bike not even a week ago... I took the starter apart and shook the wires a bit and put it back together and it started turning the proper way, my thought is that maybe a wire might be grounded inside the starter somewhere???  pull it apart and check it out because your starter is definately turning the wrong way.  The starter should be turning counter clockwise.
Thanks, BOB

Evan

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Re: How does the starter clutch work?
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2007, 09:22:05 PM »
So, from what I can tell of how this thing should work...

It should crank counter clock wise and when the proper centrifugal force is applied the rollers go up into the slots and allow the idler gear to freewheel and the compression of the engine keeps the crank turning.  Is this correct?

Dj,

As far as I can tell, and from looking in the manual, crank turns counter-clockwise (from left), and so does the starter.  If the electrical is correct, I am not sure how your starter is turning backwards.  But until it turns counter-clockwise, the starter clutch will not engage (without spot welding or bubble gum), and the bike will not start.

Haven't got much more experience than you, but I did have my V running long enough to burn a pint of gas :)

And we have a second (concurring) opinion on the starter crank direction, so that seems reasonable the next place to go.

dj

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Re: How does the starter clutch work?
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2007, 09:25:13 PM »
I had the same problem with my bike not even a week ago... I took the starter apart and shook the wires a bit and put it back together and it started turning the proper way, my thought is that maybe a wire might be grounded inside the starter somewhere???  pull it apart and check it out because your starter is definately turning the wrong way.  The starter should be turning counter clockwise.

I took it apart and looked over everything, didn't see anything wrong with it.  Put it back together and put it on the bike and it now turns the right (I mean left) way.  I put the large idler gear and flywheel back on and the small idler gear on and the crank case on.  Hit the start button and it turned over.  OH HAPPY DAY IT TURNED OVER!!!!

I'll be putting the oil back in now and seeing if I have enough gas to fire her up.
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Evan

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Re: How does the starter clutch work?
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2007, 09:28:41 PM »
What color or flavor of chicken was it that you sacrificed?

 ;D

dj

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Re: How does the starter clutch work?
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2007, 09:45:50 PM »
Haven't sacrificed any chickens yet.  They aren't big enough.  I have a box of 12 chicks that my wife just picked up.  When they get bigger they will be going out in the coop.  Also have to turkey chicks (they get big fast, only had them for 2 weeks and they have doubled in size already).

Can't get the bike started right now.

Don't have enough gas, and the battery is down to 11 volts.  It is the car (broken down) so I can't run it to charge the battery back up.  I'll have to wait for my wife to get back from work and try it with the truck once I go get some gas real quick.

I'll keep everybody posted.  I am definetly seeing some light at he end of the tunnel as it is cranking over pretty strong even with only 11 volts from the car battery.  Can't waitto see what it does with the truck battery (12.8V) and some more gas.  keep your fingers crossed, but I think she is almost pulled through her surgery.
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Night Vision

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Re: How does the starter clutch work?
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2007, 09:59:48 PM »
crap.. I just got done pulling my starter and seeing which way it turns and you guys figured it out  >:( ..

well, actually curiousity got the better of me and I dug through the shed and pulled the starter out for the project and tested that  ;) 

yes, the starter definately turns counter clockwise looking at it from the case side...

now all you have to do is figure out why a couple of them have been turning bass ackwards 
if it ain't worth doing it the hard way....
it ain't worth doing it at all - Man Law
 ;D


if it ain't broke..... take it apart and find out why


don't give up.... don't ever give up - Jimmy Valvano

dj

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Re: How does the starter clutch work?
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2007, 10:02:49 PM »
crap.. I just got done pulling my starter and seeing which way it turns and you guys figured it out  >:( ..

well, actually curiousity got the better of me and I dug through the shed and pulled the starter out for the project and tested that  ;) 

yes, the starter definately turns counter clockwise looking at it from the case side...

now all you have to do is figure out why a couple of them have been turning bass ackwards 

At this point I just want to see if this thing will actually fire up and run for a bit.  As stated earlier I have to wait for my wife to get home with the truck as I am stuck home with the kids and a car that doesn't run.  She normally gets home around 1130, so I should at least be able to see if it will crank over nice and hard with a fully charged battery.  After that I'll get some gas (most likely in the morning as I am getting tired now) and see if she will wake up from her long snooze.
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