Author Topic: Inspection holes in left hand casing  (Read 1767 times)

Glyn

  • ROV Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 333
  • Bikes, booze and birds. What else is there?
Inspection holes in left hand casing
« on: July 03, 2007, 08:02:25 AM »
I am in the process of designing alloy cooling fins for the stator case and would preferably like to weld up the two inspection holes. Especially the large central one with the Vision logo. What is it used for? and has anyone really used it? or rather just whipped the whole case off. Also has anyone ever used slotted  timing aperture? Perhaps you need this after stripping the motor. I'll still have one unwelded case so I could always use that if I needed to time the bike again.

I plan to get all the case bead blasted matt, and also the fins once cut to size and profile matched to the case. It'll be fiddly since I havn't got a workshop like OCC. Do they really build bikes there?, or is it just for TV??  Once cut and bead blasted, going to fill the 5mm thick strips full of 3mm holes, to try to maximise the cooling effect. According to my calcs this should be a 67% mprovement over undrilled metal. (mmm....).
Once all welded up will be painted matt black, high temp paint. Well that's the plan anyway.

I hope you havn't got rain like us!
« Last Edit: July 03, 2007, 08:05:13 AM by Glyn »

Coil Coyle

  • Contributing Member
  • Visionary Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1460
  • Truckin' like a Buffalo, takes time..you got to..,
    • 707-889-2517
Re: Inspection holes in left hand casing
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2007, 08:30:25 AM »
Glyn,
         It's purpose is to allow the crank to be turned when setting the valves or timing. The fins you add on the outside would need a wide area of contact between the stator frame and the case inner surface to transfer the heat. Heat transfer Epoxy pastes might be molded in to the joint to get the heat to your fins. They are available in electronic supply catalogs

         I'm using the YICS label cover mount a 90 degree tubing adapter and tube that allows crankcase air to circulate through an aluminum tube. I tapped the center to 3/8"NPT and pick up the air at a "T" in the oil filler hose on the 83RK. Crankcase gases circulate through 7" of 3/8" aluminum tube for the heat exchanger. I figure the flywheel is a turbine and the center of the area is a lower pressure.

         I'm going to draw from crankcase gases from a drain hole drilled and tapped in the bottom front of the head valve chamber and returned in the center of the label on my next 82 to get an oil and air mix that is cooled as it flows through the tube.

         Last year Walt_M pointed out that 350 watts of power through the low resistance of the stator windings does not generate very much heat. Crankcase heat is probably the start of the problem.

         My opinion is that the real high temps come after a few windings cook until they have shorted together. Then induced currents skyrocket in that short circuit and we get the black bands.

Keep us posted how the fins work.

 ;)
Coil

         
« Last Edit: July 03, 2007, 08:38:24 AM by coilXZcoyle »

Glyn

  • ROV Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 333
  • Bikes, booze and birds. What else is there?
Re: Inspection holes in left hand casing
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2007, 08:07:48 AM »
Sounds like you're on to it Coil. Will post some pics when I get it finished.
Thanks for the advice.

ps2/bikevision

  • ROV Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1071
    • BIKEVISION
Re: Inspection holes in left hand casing
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2007, 02:33:46 AM »
im not an expert and dont try to be one. but i know with HD's when you replace a case side (no fins) with one that has fins that the side walls are thinner. the purpose of fins is to draw the heat out away from the center of the case to the edge of the fins. so many of us are thinking of ways to reduce the heat in the engine to save stators that we forget that no matter what we do an engine is going to get hot. if a stator fails because of the heat doesent it seem practol to blame the stator not the heat. i think we need to start thinking about ways to make our stators relaxe with the heat insteat of getting rid of it. there has got to be a way of making the windings last in the heat. if the apoxy melts and shorts out with the heat of the bike then we should focis on making the stator heat resistint.

but intill then keep the mind turning and work on them fins. most of us have spare cases. and if you make a case that has fins and no holes in it then we can take our non fin cases get the engine running perfict then put the fin case on. i dont think you would make fins that we would have to install on out own cases? hum glue on case fins. now thats an idea. damn jack wha the hell did i just say.

Coil Coyle

  • Contributing Member
  • Visionary Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1460
  • Truckin' like a Buffalo, takes time..you got to..,
    • 707-889-2517
Re: Inspection holes in left hand casing
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2007, 03:54:42 AM »
PS2,
 I got what ya said and I agree, that too!
 ;)
Coil


Night Vision

  • Contributing Member
  • Visionary Grand Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 4503
Re: Inspection holes in left hand casing
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2007, 07:50:08 AM »
.... i dont think you would make fins that we would have to install on out own cases? hum glue on case fins. now thats an idea. damn jack wha the hell did i just say.

take a heat sink off a cpu, saw it in half, epoxy to upper and lower halves of the case opposite the top and bottom of the stator with that heat transfer epoxy...

but... I tend to agree with Coil.... the extreme heat, that is evidenced by the crispy/blackened/flakey insulation, begins after the shorting of wires. I have seen OEM stators that are blackened (not crispy) that aren't shorted, so there is still heat involved.

An oil cooler, heat sink fins, and a new genuine Yamaha stator are what is going into my project. That and cleaning every electrical connector is about all I can do.. unless I get the balls to try the drilled crank bolt.

if it ain't worth doing it the hard way....
it ain't worth doing it at all - Man Law
 ;D


if it ain't broke..... take it apart and find out why


don't give up.... don't ever give up - Jimmy Valvano

jasonm.

  • Visionary Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1732
Re: Inspection holes in left hand casing
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2007, 02:53:31 PM »
Welding up the inspection holes??? They are there for a reason....Are you NUTZ?!?!  I can tell you there are paints out there that promise to lower the temperature of what you paint. A company years ago named Kal-gard sold this for a while. This is likely before many of you were born. I suggest doing a search for it.   this I think is their site.

http://www.kalgard.com/

But I don't know if they still have the paints..

But it may lower the temp of the case just enough to make stators last longer.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2007, 02:55:35 PM by jasonm. »
looks aren't important, if she lets you play by your rules

kwells

  • Visionary Grand Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2876
    • WellsMoto
Re: Inspection holes in left hand casing
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2007, 12:32:42 AM »
i think we can install a small AC unit in place of the ever popular non-functioning YICS.  That should cool us down nicely.
...a vision is never complete.

www.wellsmoto.com

Glyn

  • ROV Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 333
  • Bikes, booze and birds. What else is there?
Re: Inspection holes in left hand casing
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2007, 07:32:54 AM »
Hey Coil, is that heat exchanger tube just a bare tube, or routed through a small radiator/ oil cooler? Sounds like a fairly easy mod (easier than my fins). Mind you I've started the project now so I'd better finish it. Got any drawings etc?   

Coil Coyle

  • Contributing Member
  • Visionary Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1460
  • Truckin' like a Buffalo, takes time..you got to..,
    • 707-889-2517
Re: Inspection holes in left hand casing
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2007, 11:01:49 AM »
Glyn,

I've got 7" of 1/2 OD aluminum tube in bent in an angle from a T in the filler hose to the center of the case inspection plate.

I started out thinking to use a heater core, got one, then Walt convinced me that there wouldn't be that much heat created.

I'll try and get a picture up soon.
 :)
Coil

Glyn

  • ROV Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 333
  • Bikes, booze and birds. What else is there?
Re: Inspection holes in left hand casing
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2007, 07:31:20 AM »
That sounds a smart idea. Look forward to the pics. Just finished shaping and drilling my first fin (1 of 6). Took me about 3 hours all up. It's going to be a long project!

Glyn

  • ROV Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 333
  • Bikes, booze and birds. What else is there?
Re: Inspection holes in left hand casing
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2007, 10:56:57 PM »
Re: Inspection holes in left hand casing

I have made a fair bit of progress on the stator fins. I've ended up
making 6 out of 5mm alloy plate. I would have preferred double the
amount but I don't think my local weld shop could have welded both sides
of the base of the fin in the small space in between them. Anyway it's a
"Mark 1 project" so I had to start somewhere. Each fin is shaped
specifically to the place on the case it will be welded to. It was
pretty tricky getting them all vertically level and in line. I started
by using a carpenters profile tool and some cardboard cutouts. If anyone
wants to replicate what I have done I've taken exact outlines of the
fins. It will save loads of design time. I filled the fins with 2.5mm
holes, without going too crazy on them.
If you drill 5mm holes the surface area of the metal removed is the same
as that created. Therefore smaller the holes the better re: new surface
area created. Have now screwed the case to an old bookcase shelf for
sand blasting. Also will get the fins done. This was to protect the
sealing edge from damage.

I decided to weld up the inspection holes since the fins will go over
them both and they will be unuseable. I've never used them so far
anyway. Also removed the rubber seals out of them since these may get
melted during the welding. After stripping off my paper tape - used for
marking up/positioning the fins, I drill marked the cases, so the fins
can be easily lined up by the welder. Not too deep but enough not to be
removed by the sandblasting. Also covered the glass oil level space so
the glass won't be damaged.

I'm really unsure about using heat paint on the finished case. I know
allot of manufacturers used to paint their cylinder fins black (the RD's
etc). But then others did not. If nothing else it will help the case
avoid white rot disease. I think any paint maker will say their product
will be better than bare metal? It would be good to see some independent
tests on that.

Will post some final pics when the finished case is on the bike. Drop a
line to pickteam@xtra.co.nz <mailto:pickteam@xtra.co.nz> if anyone wants
the outlines.

« Last Edit: July 27, 2007, 11:04:43 PM by Glyn »