Stator Burnout

[srfrank]

I've designed a new voltage regulator to eliminate the high stator currents and subsequent burnout.  Does anyone have any idea how many bikes are out there or how many owners would like one?

Thanks.

[ironb12s]

Oh, possibly 800+?

Tell us all a bit more about your redesign, and we'll let you know what we think of it.

[srfrank]

Sure.

Instead of shunting the stator (shunt regulator), it's a buck regulator.  This is to say that it allows the windings to pass current to the battery as needed and OPENs them when not needed.  It does this at 20kc so that it's beyond audible.  In this way, as the load increases, the current through the stator spends more time connected to the battery and when the load is low they are mostly NOT connected to anything and hence they run cooler. 

The power is chopped by the circuit at such a high frequency that you cannot hear it and the battery serves to filter out the chopping ripple as it is at least an order of magnitude higher than the pulsing of the poles.

Not fancy, just appropriate.

A friend of mine asked me to do it because I've been designing power electronics controls for 25 years and he though that it was needed.  My question was, "how many riders would actually want to buy it?"  You see, if there's enough interest, I'd get circuit boards and nice enclosures and "do it up right".  If not, then, I could just post the schematics and let the "techy's" have at it.

srf

[h2olawyer]

Is this the project Tanno of Longmont initiated?  If so, I'm a definite YES.  I hate replacing my stators every 1,000 miles.  I'm sure there are others.

H₂O

[Night Vision]

I sent Tanno a pm asking the same... if so, I'd also be interested in one.... or five

[pullshocks]

Depending what kind of money we are talking about, I would try it.  And  I would much rather buy a pre-made do-it-up-right unit.  I'm kind of burned out on electronics projects, after finishing my last tube guitar amp.

As far as market research, don't forget the euros.  With the weak dollar, maybe they would like it too

[ironb12s]

Sure.

A friend of mine asked me to do it because I've been designing power electronics controls for 25 years and he though that it was needed.  My question was, "how many riders would actually want to buy it?"  You see, if there's enough interest, I'd get circuit boards and nice enclosures and "do it up right".  If not, then, I could just post the schematics and let the "techy's" have at it.

srf

If you are the best kept secret by Tanno, then you've found a market.  With the spate of baked Stators and charbroiled R/R's that this forum has seen, any new design will offer hope to all...    ;)   By all means, post your schematics and we'll assess the design, let you know how to produce, toute suite.  If it comes close, you'll be busy.  As long as it is designed to handle much higher current, it'll be golden...

Now, is this just a Regulator, or is the Rectifier built in as well?  We have a design from Yamaha-Triples that came close to working using a Volvo Regulator, but those bikes have a field/rotor coil that is supplied power to control the alternator output.  However, the standalone rectifier would work like a champ...pretty simple, 2 bridge rectifiers handling the 3 positive and one ground of the stator, turning AC to DC and sending that on to be regulated.

And, since it is your design, I doubt anyone here would want to pilfer it.   :)  As for price, check the prices that we pay for R/R's from the parts suppliers...

[Tanno]

I'm not aware of "srfrank". I will check further on the engineer's status. SrFrank, I sent you a PM... please check it and get back with me.

[srfrank]

Now, is this just a Regulator, or is the Rectifier built in as well?  We have a design from Yamaha-Triples that came close to working using a Volvo Regulator, but those bikes have a field/rotor coil that is supplied power to control the alternator output.  However, the standalone rectifier would work like a champ...pretty simple, 2 bridge rectifiers handling the 3 positive and one ground of the stator, turning AC to DC and sending that on to be regulated.
[/quote]

Thanks for the reply.  It works by modulating the rectifier.  So, it will sit... exclusively... between the stator windings and the battery.  It will rectify and apportion the power.  While I have seen an existing regulator and will copy the packaging so that it is a form-fit-function drop-in, I would appreciate it if someone would send me an electrical schematic of the bike so that I can assure total system compatibility.

srf

[Tanno]

I will state that I've got the call from the engineer.... srfrank is legit! He's the dude in charge!

Srfrank:

This is the schematic for the `83 Vision: http://www.xz550.com/wiring_files/WiringDiagram.gif
I don't have an electronic version of the `82 and I can't find my haynes for it either.

This is a simplified test for stator and/or r/r failure: http://www.xz550.com/RRTESTS.jpg

[Brian Moffet]

Even though I Have never had to replace stator or R/R, I would be interested.

Brian (never means in 41,000 miles)

[Tanno]

Even though I Have never had to replace stator or R/R, I would be interested.

Brian (never means in 41,000 miles)

I would call that a godsend. Mine was dead when I got the bike - it had ~12,000 miles on it.

[h2olawyer]

I haven't had the R/R problems - unless it's been an intermittant failure in the most recent one.  I thought it would be a smart idea to replace it when the first stator fried.  After the fourth replacement stator fried this fall, I replaced the R/R again with the Electrosport unit.  I know it's a better part, but it still works like the OEM unit, shunting the excess power & heating up the stator.

When I installed the penultimate stator, I tried my original OEM R/R.  Seems the regulator section died while it was sitting.   ???   It tested OK when I removed it a couple years ago, but after reinstalling it in July, my volt gauge pegged @ over 18V.  Went back to the first replacement (OEM type) R/R & it tested fine.  That original OEM R/R is the one supplied for this project.

As for size - it can be a bit taller - in the direction of the heat sink fins.  The l & w dimensions should stay close to what they are.  I had a 12V CPU cooling fan attached to the replacement OEM R/R, adding about 2 inches to the height.  It still had some room to spare in the stock mounting location.

H₂O

[arfa vmax]

i would be interested in one,havent had my bike running yet but have read all the postings about fried stators.I saw a new stator listed on ebay for £199!!!

[ironb12s]

As for size - it can be a bit taller - in the direction of the heat sink fins.  The l & w dimensions should stay close to what they are.  I had a 12V CPU cooling fan attached to the replacement OEM R/R, adding about 2 inches to the height.  It still had some room to spare in the stock mounting location.

H₂O

I would go even farther to state that size isn't that important, the R/R should likely be relocated to somewhere that gets better airflow.  To make this work, I'm sure a lot of us would find ways to make it fit.   :)  More fins or taller fins...

[h2olawyer]

Many have relocated the R/R to the rear footpeg mount - or other locations in that vicinity.  A couple of us went with the CPU cooling fan.  I stuck a remote thermometer probe between the fins of the heat sink, over the 'box' where the internal electrical bits (technical jargon) are sealed, rode for a few days in the heat of summer & watched the temp of the R/R.  While moving, the temp never exceeded 110F.  After parking, the temp in there would rise to 125F max.  Used a time / temp / volt thingy (more technical jargon) from Radio Shack that also keeps tabs on the charging volts.  While the stock location isn't ideal for heat dissipation, it doesn't seem to get too hot in there.  The CPU fan would help while the bike was stopped & idling, but when the key is off, the fan turns off as well.

H₂O

[ironb12s]

The muffin fan is actually a good, and cheap, ventilation fix.  They can be had for next to nothing at used electronics/computer parts stores.  OEM Electronics in the Springs has them for a buck or two, in a variety of sizes...

[Tanno]

I'm sure the man will answer, but I do believe that the heat problem at the r/r would also be a thing of the past. Stock location should be just fine. No fan.....stock.

[ironb12s]

As long as the internal circuitry is designed to handle higher current, it should fix the problem of heat at the R/R and ensuing heat in the stator coils...  Additional grounds do not help if the circuitry to pass the current to ground is inadequate.

[Tanno]

The issue being resolved is dated technology. The new unit will no longer pass any current to ground. And, in doing so, r/r heat should be manageble with stock heat sink and no fan. The only heat that should generate is from the switching electronics. This should be minimal.