Plug Removal For 83 Carb Pilot

Started by Cdnlouie, January 16, 2008, 01:19:34 AM

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Cdnlouie

 ??? For the 83 Carbs, does anyone have a great idea for the removal of the aluminum plug to access the pilot needle? I am restoring a set and need to get it out in order to change the pilot o-ring, etc.

I am of a mind to drill a hole in the little bugger, and tap in a 6mm thread, thus no more hassles with plugs.  The pilot is 5.4mm wide so it should drop out the hole and allow me to access it. However, before I do so, I wanted to ask for any alternative treatment options.

:-\  CDNL


inanecathode

Probably just like normal, drill a small hole, screw in a small screw, and yank the screw out, plug should come with it.
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kwells

long drywall screw should do it yeh
...a vision is never complete.

www.wellsmoto.com

h2olawyer

Sounds like his idea is to drill a hole in the plug large enough to remove the pilot needle without removing the plug, then use a screw to plug the hole when he puts it all back together.  Sounds like a neat idea to me & I'll likely try it when I do my 83 carbs after I get back from Phoenix next week.

Lucky knows the 83 carbs well & should be able to answer if this is possible - or why it can't be done.

H2O
If you have an accident on a motorcycle, it's always your fault. Tough call, but it has to be that way. You're in the right, and dead -on a bike. The principle is not to have any accident. If you're involved in an an accident, it's because you did not anticipate. Then, by default, you failed.

Lucky

drill it out, don't go too deep!
i use a good self tapping screw, but anything with bite will work.  clamp some vice grips on the screw & tap it out with a hammer.

put the plug back on after reassembly & use a dab of blue rtv over the screw hole.

--Lucky
1982/3 XZ550 Touring Vison, Gold on Black

kwells

...a vision is never complete.

www.wellsmoto.com

Lucky

1982/3 XZ550 Touring Vison, Gold on Black

kwells

...a vision is never complete.

www.wellsmoto.com

Lucky

keep dirt out of the sensitive needles. why do you leave them open on the 83?
1982/3 XZ550 Touring Vison, Gold on Black

kwells

no...
being that Im relegated to being an 82 man I guess I didnt think the 83 setup was all that different.  I know I had to remove the plugs on my 82 to get to the adjustment needles.  I suppose i leave them 'open'
...a vision is never complete.

www.wellsmoto.com

Lucky

82's you can leave open, but on 83's your not actually turning the pilot screw when you make an adjustment, your turning a tapered adjuster that pushes on a ball bearing that pushes on the pilot.


Pilot Screw Assembly Details
1-- Access Plug
2--Adjustment Screw
3--Adjustment screw spring
4--Ball bearing
5--Pin
6--Spring
7--Washer
8--O-ring
1982/3 XZ550 Touring Vison, Gold on Black

kwells

thanks lucky
you learn something new everyday indeed
...a vision is never complete.

www.wellsmoto.com

Lucky

I need to clarify:
you have to reinstall the plugs that hold the pilots in, not the plugs for the mixture adjustments (they are at right angles)
see my "Carb Surgery page" for detailed pics
http://www.xz550.com/83mix.html
1982/3 XZ550 Touring Vison, Gold on Black

supervision

 I'll say one thing, that is the most complex way of doing a simple thing, I have ever seen!  Drilling  and pulling the plug was the easy part,  wait till you see all the other pieces in there.  On one of my carbs, their was slight water damage,in that low speed, nothing would move on it's own.  I have them mostly ready now, but it may be awhile before I want to go to the trouble of adapting to my 82.  I used Hot water to remove the molded fuel hoses, with no trouble, and that's the way I'll put them back on, when I finish the project. 
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Cdnlouie

#14
Now that I've had my beauty sleep  ;D, I wake up to find that I have about six posts thanks to the west coast time difference and it must be insomia for Lucky  ;).  This is my first 83 carb so I did not have occasion to check the carb tip on your site Lucky (good pics).  This is exactly the same problem I ran into.

This little item is an interesting part of the 83 carb design (totally different from 82) and once these carb's reach restoration status (mine is pretty rough), they can be a nasty surprise for removal of the tapered pilot screw.  This is why you like your 82 carbs, as this little design actually operates the pilot needle at right angles to the taper so it's all hidden away and inaccessible due to a sealed plug at the end of the shaft.

Those tapered pilot screws, we will call them that, since they operate the pilot needles. Turning in the pilot screw forces the pilot needle toward the seat by pushing down on a ball bearing which is on top of the needel producing the same effect as turning in the 82 mixture screw.  Now, I did all the soaking, heating, praying, and I think the last action moved me to try an old trick to avoid destroying the carb body.

Lucky went in this direction (taken from his website): The solution was to remove part of the boss around the head of the adjuster in order to recut the slot with a Dremel tool. Once I had done this, I picked a screwdriver that fit well into the slot, put a large Vice-grips on the handle of the screwdriver for leverage and S-L-O-W--L-Y turned the rear screw out.

The problem is that this pilot screw is steel, so it will rust solid against the carb body (gentle reminder for 83 owners to take these screws out and grease them). It's such a large screw (about 10mm, see from Lucky's diagram) that there is no way under heaven that the little screwdriver slot will ever produce the torque to remove it.

My approach involved putting the carb in a vise and taking my stick welder to build up a weld right on top of the screw slot (keeping it in the center), until it is up above the carb body and then you can remove the tapered screw (by your newly created stud extension) with a pair of pliers, or vise grips if need be. Usually the welder builds up just enough heat to break the corrosion allowing pretty easy removal.  You just keep tack welding the head you are building up in short bursts, to keep from burning the aluminum carb body.  Fortunately, there is enough room to pull this stunt off because of the large pilot screw head diameter, even though it is quite deep.

After all the fuss, it took 15 minutes to remove the tapered pilot screw and then I cut off the welded extension about 3mm above the wide base and cut a slot in the new head to produce a more robust version of the original. I didn't think I would be able to find one of these any time soon.

Now for the pilot needle access plug:  I do like simple, so Lucky's idea for the drill and silicone sounds great. If I get real fussy (and I have been known to do so), I will drill and tap a nice access hole in the plug.  Who knows we might just have another 83 Vision prowling around the Canadian landscape this year.  ::) By the way, keep this on the Q-tee as it's Tiger's Christmas present!

Thanks guys for the great interaction,

CDNL








Rick G

Hi Louie,  you have found out one reason I won't rebuild '83 carbs . I was not impressed , in the least with the '83 carbs . Yamaha tried to find a cure for a problem, that did not exist.  A clean properly tuned set of  '82 carbs perform  very well. This along with the fact that there aren't enough '83s ,  surplus, to provide a source of spare parts, caused me to no longer rebuild them.
Rick G
Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there in lurks the skid demon
'82.5 Yamaha XZ550 RJ  Vision,
'90 Suzuki VX800, 1990 Suzuki DR350.
'74  XL350   Honda , 77 XL350 Honda, 78 XL350 Honda, '82 XT 200 Yamaha, '67 Yamaha YG1TK, 80cc trail bike

Cdnlouie

Yes Rick, it certainly was an experience! Not having extra parts makes you feel a bit nervous.  Got the rhythmn down now, so at least I'll have a few techniques perfected if I ever do one again.  Some day I would just like to do a "normal" carb cleaning, but then where would the fun be in that?

Take care my friend  8),

CDNL