new aint better! - starter clutch repaired

[corwin]

Well, here i am with my two bikes and ... i still had to use a car  :-\

last year i finally got fed up of Vision, after every week or two there were new issues and just when i thought - 'now i´ve finally fixed everything' - she just broke down! thats how i left the family and got myself Aprilia Tuono.

meanwhile i forgave everything to Vision and set her up again. got new rear brake pads (OEM, paid 71 euros for these :o ). got new tryres. and everything was just fine... for two days  :-[ itś starter motor again. just wonk crank, i think because of starter brushes again..

so, what about Aprilia? Well, i was already accustomed with this abnormal-problem-free driving... until today. starts up fine, but as soon i switch in 1st gear there is a shut down. and all because of this hi-tech s*** like side-stand sensors and other stuff (its giving false signal  :-\) Who needs that anyway?

but that makes +1 to Vision again, i WILL fix her again, doesnt matter how ofter she brake down. i even expect that  ;)

[Rick G]

All machines break down, even new ones.
I have said this many times and this probably won't be the last time.  Previous owners have gotten some of the "good " out of your XZ550.  Its up to you to put the "good" back.

I have rebuilt the water pump, installed a stator, replaced the RR, 10 sets of tyres ,5 or 6 sets of rear brake shoes,replaced the headlight bulb repainted it 3 times, rebuilt the carbs twice  (may need to do it again) ,replaced the wiring harness, replaced 3 batteries, replaced the foot peg rubbers, changed the bottom end twice.
Nothing is forever ,every machine needs repair. But when you get all the problems addressed , the things that need repair to make it "good' will  occur less frequently. 

[corwin]

that sounds pretty much of work, but i am sure it was worth of it. i suppose you bought it new?
I already thought that i was the first one to replace some parts of my Vision - sometimes she just looked like falling apart any minute

just like that - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V7MIRIuvw8

.. but that cant be right. they had to change tyres at least  ;D

[Rick G]

Corwin , that was the repairs on two visions over a 10 year period, both had to be brought back from the dead, actually there's probably more but I got tired of typing. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[corwin]

I get it. It seems, i´ve been little too harsh on Vision. If i really get "everything" replaced then i think this failure frequency is going to be less .. common  :D

[corwin]

Hei,

i keep you all informed, as i think some newbies (as me) can find this information useful:

i checked the starter and there it was: one brush (that i didn´t change last time) was worn out. The critical length seems to be 9 mm. The other starter brush that i did change 10k km back was still about the same length. Now the useful information: i did not find OEM parts so i used GEBE brushes for BOSH, code BSX 75. Four peaces cost me ~6$ and they are about the right size and the connecting wire is in the right position. I only had to make them a little shorter so i could fit it ~12.5mm. So after 10k km there is still 12,5mm left  8)

Another point is the starter seal that keeps oil out of the starter. last time i replaced the original 20-35-5mm seal with a 20-35-7mm one. It fitted perfectly and cost 2$ :) And again - during last 10k km no problems with that at all!

(just a comment: fixed the Aprilia too -- 100hp ON the rear wheel -- that feels GOOD ;D )

[Walt_M.]

Glad you're getting things fixed. Have you done the starter clutch repair yet? If you are not familiar with
what that involves, the bolts holding the starter clutch are not properly fastened from the factory. They usually start loosening up around 40,000 km(25,000 miles).

[corwin]

Hey all!

Sad news :'(  After fixing starter i went riding with a friend. After another stop 60km from home i tried to start the engine when suddenly some kind of noise kicked in. Engine started very badly. i still tried to move, but then it slowly died out. It was obvious for me that this time it was a big deal. Now, one week later i opened the left side cover - and there are a lot of metal pieces  around 10mm x  2 to 3mm :-\

I am not sure what next, but for sure i won´t drive with it in this year anymore.

FYI - my V has at least 160 000 km on it, last ~18k count for me.

[h2olawyer]

That is sad news.   :'(

Looks like your XZ needs a heart transplant.  I hope you can find parts or a replacement engine in your corner of the world.  Good luck - but at least you have the Aprilia to ride - if you got the sidestand switch fixed.

Keep us informed of how things are going.

H₂O

[Tiger]

 ??? Are the metal fragments thin sheet steel ??? Maybe the starter clutch imploded  ??? ???

            8).......TIGER....... 8)

[QBS]

I'm really thinking starter clutch.

[Rick G]

It sounds like the sheet metal cover on the back of the starter clutch self destructed . I would  disassemble the started clutch and inspect it. The starter clutch is small and light enough to be affordable , air mailed from anywhere , even across the Atlantic.

[kwells]

I agree as well.  That same thing happened to me.  Ended up getting a replacement from ebay.  Of course that motor later on seized on me too. 

[corwin]

Thanks, thats the first thing to check then!  :)
And yes, i fixed Aprilia very quickly - by removing the side-stand switch ;D
Only thing i had to do was - remove the sensor and bridge wiring to cheat EPROM, works fine now.

[QBS]

If it is the starter clutch, you better have a killer plan for cleaning the inside of the engine.  It sounds like there is going to be a ton of deadly debris in there.

[Lucky]

The big hope here is that between the big magnetic rotor & the oil filter, as much of the schrapnel as possable has been contained.

when the side case is off, & the rotor is out of the way, you might want to consider putting a BIG pan under the engine & flushing as much of the inside of the engine as you can. get a pump sprayer & mineral spirits, leave the drain plug out, wash down the inside of the engine, run some magnets around the lowest parts you can reach, change the oil filter too.  you can back flush the passages between the filter & sump by forcing mineral spirits in the 9mm feed hole where the filter sits, at the front of the cavity. 

later, when you have it back together & sealed.  prime the oil system before starting the bike for the first time by disconnecting the coils or TCI & cranking the engine to pressurize the oil passages & flush out any remaining mineral spirits.  a small amount of mineral spirits left behind won't hurt anything, but i'd change the oil & filter soon thereafter.

--Lucky

[Rick G]

You might also try my trick , of making up a small  light bulb, on a set of wires . You can snake it in and  look for shrapnel  in the bottom of the oil reservoir.

[corwin]

Hi!

Now, finally i have unmounted the flywheel and you all were right. These metal pieces were from starter clutch. All three bolts were loose and have been loose for a longer period as they were really worn out. And the starter clutch was broken indeed  :o.

I´d like to repair the engine but there is a question: where could i get a new starter clutch? I asked local dealer about that and they offer it for 220$   :-X Too much...  :-\  I could have a whole Vision for that on ebay!!  ;D 
So, now i think that should i repair the old one and replace only the metal plate (it seemed to be possible to make it oneself) or perhaps you, guys, can recommend me one. Or someone could send me one  ;)

But thanks once again, your tips were very helpful  8)

Starter clutch attached to the flywheel, clutch broken

[QBS]

Why do V newbies never read up on all the V newby information on this and Luckys' web site before their starter clutches and starter motors go south?  It would be so much cheaper.  Must be a guy/man law thing.

[corwin]

Why do V newbies never read up on all the V newby information on this and Luckys' web site before their starter clutches and starter motors go south?  It would be so much cheaper.  Must be a guy/man law thing.

Because thats what Newbies do. They read - but dont understand the subject. They dont have right tools. They are just ... newbies  :-[  Guess i am just learning slowly  :-\