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BEFORE you get a Vision...

Started by Tiger, August 04, 2008, 08:52:20 AM

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Tiger

Quote from: Rick G on August 04, 2008, 02:16:42 AM
Many people figure, its going to take 50 bucks and an afternoon to get it going... ::)

:) Your spot on Rick...people who think this way, in most cases are dead wrong... 8)

Generally, because of a lack of knowledge/preventative maintenance by the previous owner(s) these Visions have fallen into a state of disrepair and been parked up after "letting the owner down"... ::)

Fast forward...You "found" a free/cheap Vision ::) THERE IS NO SUCH THING!!!

In most cases these Visions have sat for several years without the carbs/gas tank being drained and very rarely in a nice warm storage area, under wraps.

Think about it... ::)

What will it take to get her running and what it will take to get her roadworthy are two different questions... :-\

I bought #8 from a Yamaha dealer a few months ago!!! To get her fired up, all I needed was a TCI unit...$800.00 according to the dealer!!!...just as well I had one, eh ;)

Since then I have replaced the old dead battery, ripped the front forks down and rebuilt them with new seals and oil, installed new spark plugs/wires/plug cap's, an R/R, headlight/tail light and licence plate bulb's (original R/R was putting out 17+ volts!!!), replaced the OEM fuse box,etc...the list goes on :o

These Visions are no less reliable than most older bikes and a damn site better than many...They come with older technology...baggage and a not so good, storied, history. As RickG likes to say "Someone has taken the good out of that Vision, therefore you have to replace it"...

The point is, if your not prepared to spend some time, energy and a few hundred hard earned $$$$'s on your neglected Vision of 25 years of age...or any older motorcycle...DO NOT TAKE IT/BUY IT!!! Go to a reputable dealer and buy a new, warrantied, ready to ride motor cycle...and save yourself some whinging and whining...maybe!!!

            8).......TIGER....... 8)
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming HOOOOYA lets go again baby !!!!!!

'82 Vision, Pearl Orange finish, lots of up-grades!!!

bmac68

#1
Tiger,

I think you make a good point about old bikes in general.  You need to be willing to spend the time and/or money to get them working well again.  I love my Vision now for the same reason I loved it when I first owned one 17 years ago.  There is really nothing like it on the road.  That is the same reason I would love to have a Pacific Coast.  Where I think things get a little bit hard for some like me to judge is; "how must is this part or fix worth in today's market?"  I have been amazed how quickly prices jumped as gas got to the $4.00 mark.  Since I have only had my Vision for a little over one month now I'm still learning what a fair going price is for things.  I'll be looking for;

Carb Joints
YICS box
Carbs to rebuild (maybe)
Luggage rack (any more like the one you have?)

How much are these really worth?  For me having a full parts bike laying around is most likely not going to happen.  So buying these one at a time will get pricey.  That I think is why some people get a little discouraged about the older bikes and even the Visions.

Just my thoughts.

-B

YellowJacket!

Good post Tiger.  ;D

For those interested, my Vision is like many of the other "finds". It gave the previous owner about 3800 miles of good use then died.  The stealer wanted an arm, leg and nut to repair it so he parked it under his house.  There it sat in the elements for about 12 to 13 years.

While I only paid $1.00 - a token gesture for title purposes - I put a lot into it.  Probably more than I should have.  But, I was inexperienced and had never restored a motorcycle before.  I was licky enough to get  alot of parts from my god friends here at ROV and paid dearly for others on ebay or other online sources.  I also lacked the tools and equipment to do the job right, so I had to buy some tools...well, quite a few. ;D 

I had originally started documenting my expenses on the bike along with my restoration.  But I fast realized that as the receipts added up, so did my chances of getting divorced, so one day I had a little ceremony with all the receipts and a  little clay pot and some flammable liquid.  All memories of that are now gone and my eyebrows have grown back.  I continued to document my restoration with pictures though and in the end, thoroughly enjoyed it.  I would have to say that the final cost including tools was somewhere around $1300.00, the bulk of which went into a NEW tank, tires and fairing.

Kinda like a Master Card commercial:

1982 Yamaha Vision; $1.00, Set of Avon Supervenoms and lots of parts; $800.00, Tools and Equipment $500.00, Hearing the sound of the V-Twin come alive for the very first time after months of hard work: PRICELESS!  Thanks Mastercard!

;D

David


Living the dream - I am now a Physician Assistant!!   :-)

zore

Quote from: Tiger on August 04, 2008, 08:52:20 AM
Quote from: Rick G on August 04, 2008, 02:16:42 AM
Many people figure, its going to take 50 bucks and an afternoon to get it going... ::)

:) Your spot on Rick...people who think this way, in most cases are dead wrong... 8)

Generally, because of a lack of knowledge/preventative maintenance by the previous owner(s) these Visions have fallen into a state of disrepair and been parked up after "letting the owner down"... ::)

Fast forward...You "found" a free/cheap Vision ::) THERE IS NO SUCH THING!!!

In most cases these Visions have sat for several years without the carbs/gas tank being drained and very rarely in a nice warm storage area, under wraps.

Think about it... ::)

What will it take to get her running and what it will take to get her roadworthy are two different questions... :-\

I bought #8 from a Yamaha dealer a few months ago!!! To get her fired up, all I needed was a TCI unit...$800.00 according to the dealer!!!...just as well I had one, eh ;)

Since then I have replaced the old dead battery, ripped the front forks down and rebuilt them with new seals and oil, installed new spark plugs/wires/plug cap's, an R/R, headlight/tail light and licence plate bulb's (original R/R was putting out 17+ volts!!!), replaced the OEM fuse box,etc...the list goes on :o

These Visions are no less reliable than most older bikes and a damn site better than many...They come with older technology...baggage and a not so good, storied, history. As RickG likes to say "Someone has taken the good out of that Vision, therefore you have to replace it"...

The point is, if your not prepared to spend some time, energy and a few hundred hard earned $$$$'s on your neglected Vision of 25 years of age...or any older motorcycle...DO NOT TAKE IT/BUY IT!!! Go to a reputable dealer and buy a new, warrantied, ready to ride motor cycle...and save yourself some whinging and whining...maybe!!!

            8).......TIGER....... 8)

I must debunk this myth.  Mine was free.  The only Money I "had" to put into it was a carb kit and a few cans of carb cleaner.  The rest I did because I was bored.   ;D  I think it's worth noting that my experience was like winning the vision lottery.  You probably have a better chance of being hit by lightning.
1982 Yamaha XZ550
1995 Ducati M900

Walt_M.

Which is the exception to the rule! I bought mine new in May, 1983, rode it about 5 yrs when it developed the dread 'Vision Stumble' and parked it for a while. Next time I visited, had an oil-filled starter. Bought a rebuilt one for $200, ouch. Then the mysterious 'dying cylinder'(rev-limiter) caused me to park it again until 2003. I discovered this site when I started the resurrection but still have probably $1000 in it plus countless hours. And I haven't done any cosmetics. I will probably have to retire again for that.
Whale oil beef hooked!

Brian Moffet

One of the worst things anyone can do to these bikes is leave them sit for a long time.  Rust anywhere, especially in the carbs, will cause problems for a long time.  I'm sure most of you followed my rebuild, which took place after 20 years of riding, and 40,000+ miles on the bike.  At that point in time, there was enough stuff that accumulated that just needed fixing.  The rebuild could have been much less if I had just done the forks, the brakes and the carbs. 

Like others, I didn't really track my expenses.  I figured after 40k miles, the bike was free, and just needed some TLC :-)  Unlike other bikes, I had used my bike as a commuter vehicle, pretty much rain or shine, 20 + miles per day, for 10 years when I had bought it new.  It then didn't get ridden as much, and I think that caused some problems.  Now I'm commuting on it again, 14 miles per day.  Run it consistently, and they'll run great.  But, take into account, it's a 25 year old bike.  I am lucky, I know all the history of mine.  I've put all but 10 of the miles on mine. 

Figure that you will spend around 1300 of time and money for a good Vision, either one someone else has done the work on, or you'll do the work yourself.

Brian (no, that's not how much I will sell mine for  ;D )

YellowJacket!

Quote from: Brian Moffet on August 04, 2008, 01:34:49 PM

Brian (no, that's not how much I will sell mine for  ;D )

I'm with you on that... A few weeks ago I jokingly put a $6000.00 CASH pricetag on mine during a garage sale and was offered 4500.00 for it!  I still have it but my wife is even madder at me.  :o  ;D

David


Living the dream - I am now a Physician Assistant!!   :-)

h2olawyer

Great topic, Tiger!

I have seen both sides of the issue - I am the original owner of my silver 82 & had about the same history as Walt.  Every time mine sat, it was in either a garage or storage shed - but I never drained the tank or carbs.  (D'Oh!)  Fuel tank rusted out in the mid 90s & I even managed to avoid KREEM that long ago!  Carbs were never spot on right - even when new.  I got them serviceable, but always had some stumble - at times.  When I was looking at fixing / replacing the fuel tank, Yamaha still had them as NOS & were asking "only" $400.

I bought Tractor in April of 2007.  It needed some time & effort to get rideable.  It was in decent shape & hadn't been improperly stored for too long before I rescued it.  I had a set of Cheng Shins I recently removed from my Silver V, so no initial tire expense.  I rebuilt the forks, front brake system, new plugs, caps & wires and just generally cleaned things up.  I was fortunate to find one that the fuel tank had recently been Caswelled.  Saved the fuel tank problem.  The carbs had also been recently worked on by someone who knew what they were doing.  Paid $500 for that bike & it needed some electrical work to get running.  I spent about $100 on new parts, used some parts from partsbike and had a fine running, safely rideable bike.  (At least until I let someone else ride it.  ::) )  Without the parts bike, I'd have easily had close to $1000 in the bike & that is without upgrading to a braided stainless brake line or putting new tires on it.  That does include the new John Deere green paint I applied to cover the Bronco Orange it was when I bought it.  (thus: Tractor  :D )  That project required me to go get a new HVLP spray gun.   8)

I've definitely spent much more on my Silver bike, since it is a favorite and has some deep sentimental value.  I've done an almost complete upgrade to 83 specs - just need to do the carbs, fuel tank, and rear upper engine support to have for all intents & purposes an 83.  Got some great deals on many of the 83 bits & paid dearly for others.  I haven't kept track of what I've spent on that bike, but in addition to the $1399 original dealer price (a leftover in 84), I'm sure I've put at least that much into it again in the last five or six years.  Another big expense is coming for a paint job on the 83 tank & front fender (the rest is in good shape).  I don't want to do this paint myself - this bike deserves a professional job.  Besides, silver is tough to get right with as little experience as I have with painting.

As for tires, I count those as a maintenance / wear item & keep those costs separate from the actual refurbishing cost.  By all means, put tires in the budget for the initial fixup, but realize they are more of an ongoing expense or cost of riding than something like a tank liner, new plastics or paint.  Most of the refurbishing is a one time - or once a decade or two cost.  (just my $0.02)  I seem to get around 5K miles out of a set of tires - That's what the original Bridgestone Mag Mopus went (actually replaced @ 4500 miles), then the Cheng Shins (replaced @ 9,850 miles), then the SuperVenoms (replaced @ 15,250 miles).  The tread on the RoadRiders is deeper than the SuperVenoms were, so we'll see if they last any longer.

H2O
If you have an accident on a motorcycle, it's always your fault. Tough call, but it has to be that way. You're in the right, and dead -on a bike. The principle is not to have any accident. If you're involved in an an accident, it's because you did not anticipate. Then, by default, you failed.

Tiger

Quote from: bmac68 on August 04, 2008, 09:23:10 AM
Luggage rack (any more like the one you have?)

;) Mass produced by "Kevin" in his home garage... :o Well, at least two a year that I'm aware of ;D :D :D :D :D :D :D
I know YellowJacket has one on his Vision... 8) They are very well made and finished in black powder coat... 8)

This thread was meant as a general comment/observation. Zore's is one of the few exceptions to the rule ;) Like most of us, I initially paid through the nose for part's. Its all part of the learning curve ;) Any foreign bike/cage that has only been in North America for two years and is twenty plus years old is going to give you headaches while searching for part(s)...Thank God for the ROV site and the very helpfull family contained within 8)

                    8).......TIGER....... 8)
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming HOOOOYA lets go again baby !!!!!!

'82 Vision, Pearl Orange finish, lots of up-grades!!!

Aelwulf

Gah, I haven't even considered tool costs into how much I've put into it since I've gotten it.  I had basic tools but have had to get a number of more specialized/individual tools.  Nothing is TOO specialized though so I'll be using 'em on other things anyway.

I paid $100 for mine, spent about $800 in parts and 'tips' to have someone get it running for me (due to work and the move taking my time) and have since probably put at least another $200 into it.  Add tools and probably another $300-500.  I still need/want to get a compressor too. ::) Hopefully I've just a bit more to do do overall cost-wise before settling into preventive maintenance mode. :)

Ah, such fun to be out riding...
*thunk*
What was that?!

'82 Yamaha Vision XZ550RJ
'07 Kawasaki Vulcan 1600 Mean Streak Special Edition (VN1600B)

h2olawyer

After I finally got a compressor, I wondered how I ever lived without one.  One of the best shop investments anyone can make.  A small one is bettter than nothing, but go as big & powerful as you can afford.  You won't regret spending extra in that department.  Just like Tim Taylor - MORE POWER! (grunt, grunt, grunt)

H2O
If you have an accident on a motorcycle, it's always your fault. Tough call, but it has to be that way. You're in the right, and dead -on a bike. The principle is not to have any accident. If you're involved in an an accident, it's because you did not anticipate. Then, by default, you failed.

zore

I think it's important here to separate the needs from the nice to haves.  My bike needed carb kit in a cleaning and possibly the steel brake line.  It did not need the mac exhaust, ducati monster headlight and blinkers.  Nore did it need the fork brace.  I don't believe the cost of tools (except for specialty tools) should be added.  In fact, some of you who may not have thought yourself as mechanically inclined, just received a free education.  And you'll most likely use the tools for other things.
1982 Yamaha XZ550
1995 Ducati M900

YellowJacket!

Got a great 10 gallon one from harborfreight for around 100.00

David


Living the dream - I am now a Physician Assistant!!   :-)

Shop Rat

Quote from: Tiger on August 04, 2008, 03:31:27 PM
Quote from: bmac68 on August 04, 2008, 09:23:10 AM
Luggage rack (any more like the one you have?)

;) Mass produced by "Kevin" in his home garage... :o Well, at least two a year that I'm aware of ;D :D :D :D :D :D :D
I know YellowJacket has one on his Vision... 8) They are very well made and finished in black powder coat... 8)

This thread was meant as a general comment/observation. Zore's is one of the few exceptions to the rule ;) Like most of us, I initially paid through the nose for part's. Its all part of the learning curve ;) Any foreign bike/cage that has only been in North America for two years and is twenty plus years old is going to give you headaches while searching for part(s)...Thank God for the ROV site and the very helpfull family contained within 8)

                    8).......TIGER....... 8)

My two cents: Old bikes are old bikes, whether they've spent the years being polished and pampered or tipped over in a leaky barn.  When I got my Honda CB fifteen years or so ago, it was pristine.  Owned by a clean freak.  I use it a lot, except in snow months, and never abuse it.  It still looks great. However, over the years, despite my pampering, I've had to spend money on parts and do repairs. It's a 25 year old machine. Stuff wears out; things break.  Just doing some quick figuring, I've put close to $2000 in this bike since I've owned it. 

I paid $500 for my xz550.  I expect to drop a lot more $ in it before I'm riding it.  If I didn't spend money on stuff like this, I'd only blow it on stocks. 

Frank
frankcalandra49@gmail.com
'82 XZ550
'83 CB1100F

h2olawyer

Frank - $2000 over fifteen years makes for cheap fun!

As for compressors, I got mine at Harbor Freight as well.  A 25 gallon vertical type.  It barely keeps up with my HVLP sprayer.  I like the vertical ones as they take up less floor space.

H2O
If you have an accident on a motorcycle, it's always your fault. Tough call, but it has to be that way. You're in the right, and dead -on a bike. The principle is not to have any accident. If you're involved in an an accident, it's because you did not anticipate. Then, by default, you failed.

Shop Rat

Quote from: h2olawyer on August 04, 2008, 05:40:58 PM
Frank - $2000 over fifteen years makes for cheap fun!

As for compressors, I got mine at Harbor Freight as well.  A 25 gallon vertical type.  It barely keeps up with my HVLP sprayer.  I like the vertical ones as they take up less floor space.

H2O

That's $2K above the purchase price, which was another $2000, but I could sell it in a heartbeat for $2000 today, so it was basically free, right? (With this logic, I should be in politics!)

FC
frankcalandra49@gmail.com
'82 XZ550
'83 CB1100F

Aelwulf

Quote from: h2olawyer on August 04, 2008, 03:55:38 PM
After I finally got a compressor, I wondered how I ever lived without one.  One of the best shop investments anyone can make.  A small one is bettter than nothing, but go as big & powerful as you can afford.  You won't regret spending extra in that department.  Just like Tim Taylor - MORE POWER! (grunt, grunt, grunt)

H2O

I'm lookin' at a 160psi upright from Sears for around $300.  Should handle pneumatic tools, vehicle tires, blowin' out carbs, messin' with the dogs and whatever else I think of *hopefully*.  I poked at some outside a car parts store near my house and for a similar sized one they wanted about as much as the Craftsman so figured may as well go with the brand name.

Ah, such fun to be out riding...
*thunk*
What was that?!

'82 Yamaha Vision XZ550RJ
'07 Kawasaki Vulcan 1600 Mean Streak Special Edition (VN1600B)

don_vanecek

Just like H2O I bought my Vision new for about the same price and have close to doubled the money when I started to fix it up three or so years ago.  And like David, please, the wife doesn't need to know!

Results are nice however, I just got back from my trip to MN, put on close to 800 miles, my Vision ran like a finely tuned clock, PERFECT!  

I'll try to post a few pictures later in the "going riding" section.

YellowJacket!

Speaking of compressors....
Haven't had any AC in the house for a couple days now and the HVAC guy just left.  The verdict...bad compressor.  The problem - The unit is 15 years old and has to be replaced! @#$%  Its 86 degrees in my house now and I have to find a couple thousand dollars I don't have.  Guess what the first suggestion was....yeah right.  Shot that down like a Japanese Kamakazi!

David


Living the dream - I am now a Physician Assistant!!   :-)

h2olawyer

ZING- Thread hijack alert!

When you finally find the hip salad for that new AC compressor, you should notice fairly significant electricity savings.  Any AC compressors over 10 years old have likely lost a fair amount of efficiency anyway.  Not to mention the upgrades through technology in the newer compressors.  It's been a big deal around here to have older AC units in general & compressors in particular replaced.  The city electrical utility here is giving significant rebates for making the replacement.  If you go for the whole system, they rebate about 30% of the cost!  I had AC installed in the house about 4 years ago.  It never had AC before & I still qualified for the rebate.  I put in a medium-high efficiency unit (don't recall the SEER # at the moment), but by going with the higher efficiency system, it ended up costing less than going with a cheaper, less efficient system.  The next higher level of efficiency would have nearly doubled the cost, though.

Back to your regularly scheduled thread.   ;D

H2O

If you have an accident on a motorcycle, it's always your fault. Tough call, but it has to be that way. You're in the right, and dead -on a bike. The principle is not to have any accident. If you're involved in an an accident, it's because you did not anticipate. Then, by default, you failed.