A cool thing that President Reagan said..

[Coil Coyle]

"Rather than Communists and Marxists on the extreme 'Left' and Nazis and Fascists on the extreme 'Right,' I think the political spectrum should be 'Up' and 'Down' – Up towards individual freedom and Down towards control of the individual by the State. The extreme Up would be Anarchy, no government at all, while the extreme Down, at the bottom of the spectrum, would be all forms of totalitarianism: both Fascism and Communism, Nazism and Marxism, which together in common advocate the abolishment of individual freedom. On this spectrum, I place myself on the Up side, not an anarchist, but as  an advocate of individual liberty in accordance with a constitutional democracy and rule of law." - Address at UCLA Student Union, October, 1965

        What do each of you think of this liberty/constitutional democracy position President Reagan took back in 1965, before his Alzheimer's began?

        I'm personally with; "Up", "tax the winners ( even if I am one ) at a higher rate", defend our peons workplace safety, defend the "Constitution" against all enemies, foreign and domestic and I regard health care as promotion of the common welfare.

8)
Coil

[inanecathode]

Dude, theres a difference between being thought provoking, and just starting shit  :-\

[Coil Coyle]

Dude, theres a difference between being thought provoking, and just starting shit  :-\

And what is that difference, Inane?

;)
Coil

[inanecathode]

Dude, theres a difference between being thought provoking, and just starting shit  :-\

And what is that difference, Inane?

;)
Coil

Come on man, you know what i'm talking about.  ;)

Lets talk about puppies instead:

[supervision]

Thanks for the thread Coil.  This is a good topic, as long as it stays on the topic. I would say that I agree, with your vision, of what we should be

[YellowJacket!]

Nice Cattle Dog.  ;D

David

[YellowJacket!]

“
        I'm personally with; "Up", "tax the winners ( even if I am one ) at a higher rate", defend our peons workplace safety, defend the "Constitution" against all enemies, foreign and domestic and I regard health care as promotion of the common welfare.

8)
Coil

Not to start anything, because in part I agree, but there is one part - "Defend our *peons* workplace..."  Do you mean "persons"?  Freudian slip or typo?  ;D

David

[inanecathode]

        What do each of you think of this liberty/constitutional democracy position President Reagan took back in 1965, before his Alzheimer's began?

Coil

Could you explain why you worded this sentence like this?
Also, please define what a 'peon' is for me.
Thanks,
Cathode

[Walt_M.]

I had no idea Coil was such a fan of President Reagan. Also, I am surprised that he would even have been allowed to speak at Berkley after his support for Barry Goldwater in 1964.

[Coil Coyle]

    Sorry for the late reply, I've been busy building Visions. I was a big fan of Ronald Reagan in his younger days, when he was a Labor Union member.
;)

       I think it is fair to say that after he married Mr. Davis's daughter his stated political positions evolved into a "get the government off of our back" position that, while it did sound real good while he was on the TV saying it, has lead to our current "Chicago Boys" style financial melt down. When I agreed with Reagan's 1980's economic ideas I had not yet studied what Milton Friedman's students, the  "Chicago Boys", had done to Chile in 1970 or Argentina in 1976.

       What they did to Chile and Argentina is happening to the United States of America as you read this. We were deceived about the murder of thousands of New York emergency personnel and office workers to stimulate us into a war that is being financed with debt we will soon begin paying back. Our country is being bankrupted by people who told us they were going to shrink the government until they could "squash it like a bug". I just didn't believe they were serious.

       I do not like any of this. If any of you do, I respectfully disagree with you. I have had enough of this train of political thought.

Cathode,
             I define "Peon" as a person who labors for a living, like myself.

Walt,
             I think that you and I are probably fans of many of the same things, I'm glad I have you as an acquaintance with another perspective. Thanks for caring to give your thoughts.

       I hope we can all go riding someday.

;)
Coil

     

[Coil Coyle]

PS.
Here's a good definition of Peon, Cathode.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peon

The second entry, English usage, under Debt Bondage Each of us is becoming our share of $10 Billion a month further in debt. The next Executive will be blamed for this. It is being done to us peons right now.

Best Regards,
Coil

[Rick G]

inane , what does your Heeler weigh, and how tall is he? Is he a he?  I need to send a pic of my freckles , she's about 35lbs  15 inches tall at the shoulder.  Her markings are similar to your dog , but she has a bandit mask  and Egyptian eye makeup. She also has the typical Heeler spots all over.  She's a couch potato , but when aroused  she moves like the wind . She's mad at me right now , because I treated her for ear mites  and she didn't care for the experience much.

[YellowJacket!]

Rick,

Were you thinking of mine?


He is the one that is the couch potato.  He has taken over my recliner chair and will actually protest if I'm sitting in it and climb up into the chair and squeeze me out of it.  He became a couch potato, unfortunately becasue the kids next door started shooting at him with their BB guns....fortuantely for my dogs, my aim is much better than theirs.  :o
Although Levi is a few years younger than Dexter (pictured), he is about 1/3 his size but weighs the same! uh oh.
Both weigh about 70 to 75 lbs and have been on strict diets for the last month.  Dex has an appointment at the vet today for a weigh in and an ear cleaning...should be lots of fun as he hates his ears being cleaned.
In spite of being couch potatos though, both ate quite strong and love to play and go to the park.  All I have to say is Park and both of them will go crazy and run to where I keep their leashes and harnesses and wait patiently for me to put them on.  Both are also very protective of each other which is unusual for two males- who both try to be alpha manles - they share the role.  The other day I was cleaning Dex's ears and he squeeled and levi took off at full tilt running across the back yard and plowed into me with full force and knocked me right over.  Gave me a solid head but right in the side...almost knocked the wind out of me.  But while I was laying on the ground trying to figure out how a truck ran into me in my yard, the little stinker was licking my face thingkin, "oops daddy, I'm sorry...just protecting my bro."

David

[Night Vision]

.......Each of us is becoming our share of $10 Billion a month further in debt. The next Executive will be blamed for this. It is being done to us peons right now.

not to worry, China has our money and is now $10 billion a month further ahead in the trade deficit.... I wonder which "Executive" was responsible for opening Pandora's box on the free trade agreement that "whooshed" American jobs overseas...

hint: it wasn't a Bush or Perot in that election

[Rick G]

Your heelers are much bigger than mine . The vet said she was over weight at 40 lbs  and shes a bit lighter now. Are yours  typical at 75 lbs? Freckles jumps on the end of the bed each night and when i climb in and she feels my feet coming her way, she jumps off and complains .
But she always curls up  on the floor near me, to spend the night. right now she's on the futon behind me, in the spare room. She follows me where ever I go. I take her in the truck when I can  and she always licks my face , in gratitude.. her one fault is an obsession to barking at every dog she sees along the road, it like driving along with a siren  going.

[YellowJacket!]

40 is typical.  70 is too much.  Went to the vet yesterday for a followup and another ear cleaning.  No bacteria this time, just yeast.  So another round of ear drops and medication.
After over a month on a diet, Dex is still 73 lbs!  He actually gained weight!  NOw added more vigrous exercise for both of them to the daily regimen.  Took them to the park yesterday for a walk and after about 1.5 miles, I was dragging both of them.  LOL.. Started out the opposite.  If I had a skateboard, I would have had a great half mile sled team.  I'll have to work up on the distance with them.
On a sadder note, while I was waiting, a gorl brought in her red heeler to be euthanized. He was very old and could hardly walk.  He was whining, in pain I think and the owner was crying.  Dex got scared and started to squeel...something he only does when we turn the TV off.  It was a sad sight.

David

[dj]

If I had a skateboard, I would have had a great half mile sled team.
David

David, get some roller blades.  Much easier on you then with a skate board (that you could be pulled off from).  They actually make roller blades with larger wheels for "all terrain" use.  They seem to work really good on the road/sidewalk.  I watch The Dog Whisperer (Ceaser Millan) and he has a set of these that he puts on to help burn the energy off of the bigger dogs.

[Blake]

        I'm personally with; "Up", "tax the winners ( even if I am one ) at a higher rate", defend our peons workplace safety, defend the "Constitution" against all enemies, foreign and domestic and I regard health care as promotion of the common welfare.

This part confuses me.  Why would you penalize those who have been successful if you are for more individual freedoms?  You're saying its ok to be successful...as long as youre not TOO successful..then you gotta pay.  Taking from the rich and giving to the poor..isnt that a quasi-communistic mentality which would be in the complete opposite direction?


And as weird as it may sound, with all but a handful of relatives working in the automotive factories in Detroit, I am actually against unions in the majority of cases.  (You mentioned Regan's union years).  The waste and abuse of the system is ridiculous, and what is more ridiculous is that according their their laws/regulations it isn't waste or abuse, but common practice.  Quick example.  Uncle of mine has been "unemployed" for the past 7 years from a car manufacturer, still gets full union benefits and said hes actually making more money now, with the paycheck and benefits he gets from the union for being unemployed, than he did when he was actually working.  I think he's worked a total of 3 months in that time in short stints whenever they needed someone to fill-in, and hasn't adamantly looked for work because its more profitable for him to be unemployed.  Things like that make me no longer wonder why car manufacturers are going under in the US, while theyre actually making good money overseas selling their cars.  For the most part i feel unions are antiquated, stemming from a time when people really did need the power of numbers to combat unsafe and illegal employment practices, and in todays case, for the most part, they're simply not needed/ need to be highly reduced in their control.   Even seeing how the unions work here in southwest Virginia, a good portion of them in certain industries seem to not be needed at all.

[Brian Moffet]

This part confuses me.  Why would you penalize those who have been successful if you are for more individual freedoms?  You're saying its ok to be successful...as long as youre not TOO successful..then you gotta pay.  Taking from the rich and giving to the poor..isnt that a quasi-communistic mentality which would be in the complete opposite direction?

Because there are basic functions the government needs to provide, and for those functions, they need money.  Having people in poverty does not help society, and can lead to an upset of society (look at history and the number of armed revolutions caused by poverty).  Given this, it makes sense that the successful should provide a larger monetary sum to fund the government so that it can provide these basic needs.  They have the extra money to do so, the people closer to poverty levels do not.

Communism is a completely different form of government. One of the main constructs is that there is no class, no oppression, etc...  The French played around with this during the French Revolution.  I highly recommend the book "The Measure of All Things", which is about the attempt to measure the globe (and thus the meter).  In it, it also discusses some attempts by the French to standardize on "new measurements", which would equalize all the people of France.  Unfortunately, it had an effect of doing just the opposite.  The poor and illiterate were treated with contempt by the government because they did not know the new measurement standards.  And until they learned them, they were refused entry into the courts.  Of course the illiterate had no method for learning them, no opportunity.  While the educated  and former upper-class were successful in the new society, the former lower-class were shut out of the society that was supposed to help everyone be equal.

In the U.S., there will always be classes.  There will never be communism in its true form.  There will be people who claim that government help is a form of communism, but that is a specious and easily discarded argument.

For more reading:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noblesse_oblige

Brian

[YellowJacket!]

In the U.S., there will always be classes.  There will never be communism in its true form.  There will be people who claim that government help is a form of communism, but that is a specious and easily discarded argument.

Brian

Thats the other one we fear.....Socialism  :o

David