Starter clutch shot...

[Tiger]

 :) Kev10104 drove the 1 1/2 hours to bring his Red & White '83 up to my place today to check out the starter clutch, which was really noisy last week and giving starting issues.

Well, once we had her all stripped down we found that ALL three soc' head cap screws that hold the starter clutch in place, were all well backed out and had the heads ground down somewhat!!!...and... once removed, they had very little thread left on them!!! The starter clutch was also cracked and was junked ::)

??? Now what the hell do we do... :o

I agreed with Kev that I would remove the one from my spare engine, (that I have for "The Mistress" one day) and he will source a replacement for me... 8)

So, out came the spare motor and the flywheel removed. We found that the three screws were not tight at all!!! However, there was no damage to the starter clutch and was put back into its original flywheel, using RED thread locker and the ends of the screws were peened in three places, like a triangle... 8)

Anywhooooooo, everything was put back together and tightened down properly, a new gas filter was installed and a new vacuum line from the petcock to the carb manifold was fitted. Primed, a couple of (quiet) cranks.....and ....she started right up. Kev took her for a wee spin and everything seems to be  running right, as he left here for home.

I'm sure he will check in to tell us how she is now starting/running fairly soon... ;)

Another happy Vision rider here in Ontario... 8)

             8).......TIGER....... 8)

[YellowJacket!]

Tiger, You're GRRREEEAAAT!

David

[kev10104]

It is running great and it is such a relief.Thanks again Tiger.

[Tiger]

It is running great and it is such a relief.Thanks again Tiger.

:) Your more than welcome. I'm happy to be of service to people, like yourself, that enjoy having/riding their Vision's... 8)

                8).......TIGER....... 8)

[Kenny]

  I just took our High Miler apart as I wanted to check the balancer nut as it had developed a small noise on the way back from my western trip.- I had done the starter clutch bolts about 70,000 kms ago with new bolts peened over and red loc-tight applied.The bolts appeared fine although when I took the clutch out one bolt was broken off and the clutch main assy was cracked all the way through -beside the spring hole. On checking the rest of the clutch I found all the holes elongated, which means the bolt immediately below the head would wear rapidly from the movment at each actuation of the start button. My remaning bolts had heavy wear on the shank,below the bolt head. I would like to find a bolt with a short grip length for the portion that goes through the clutch area so the clutch has something more than threads to work against.
    Anybody seen any thing like this- same sized bolt with a short grip lenght for a tighter fit through the clutch???
                                  Cheers Ken S.

[Tiger]

 :) Kenny, here are a couple of suggestions...

Regular (12.9) head soc' head cap screws...tensile strength 176,000 p.s.i...

or

LOW HEAD soc' head cap screws ...tensile strength 116,000 p.s.i...

or

18.8 Stainless Steel soc' head cap screws ...minimum tensile strength 80,000 p.s.i...

I could prob' order some up, as samples... ;)

                              8).......TIGER....... 8)

[Kenny]

Good sugestions Tiger,
   I guess what I would like to find is a hard bolt with no threads for 1/4 " below the head(grip length) this area wears the most from the starter actuation. If you look at your bolts you will likely see most of the wear right on the first threads below the head,look also at your starter clutch assy the holes here were once round and are now likely elongated.
  I am checking out some of the update bolts from Yamaha and will let you know what the difference is. Yamaha has since changed their starter clutch design with more rollers/springs to spread the load out.
                Cheers Ken S.

[steve]

Hey, guess what happened to me this morning?  I jumped on the bike and hit the start switch-just got a spinning noise out of the engine and no turning over.  I'm sure the used starter clutch I put in last year has failed!  I see you found a new improved clutch and I wonder if you have a part number so I can get the better type.  My flywheel has damaged screw holes from the last time so I hope I can get it off again before I order a new clutch.  Thanks for your help!!!
Steve

[jasonm.]

Yamaha was still using the same starter clutch as ours on the 2007 Vmax. My '87 Venture uses the same clutch as well without issue. I think the torque put out by these Vision starters really does a job on these clutches.The Venture being a 4 cyl. and a heavier flywheel has a significant starter reduction because there are more cylinders to fire thus easier to start. Kenny,the stock bolts are 12.9 grade. That is what I used. Do you know if you did also? The 12.9 is far less likely to be sheared off. You need all the threads to maintain holding ability. 

[Kenny]

 Hi Jason,
    Yamaha has changed its starter clutch on it's new models - they have increased the number of roller elements in the clutch to spread the load out. According to my local Dealer they have no problems with the new bikes starter clutches.
   If you look closely at the clutch assy you will see it is not threaded -so no threads are needed on the bolts in thid area, on my recently removed clutch the bolts where still tightly locked in the rotor even the one which was sheared off, the major wear was below the bolt head where the clutch sits.A bolt with a grip lenght the same thickness as the clutch plate will be able to take more of the shearing action as it has more surface area than a threaded bolt.
   You should hear my XV920rh start this starter system is a nightmare of shims and springs and requires you remove the l/h side cover to remove the starter!
                              Thats my story.....
                                    Cheers Ken S. ;)   

[Night Vision]

the threads on those starter clutch hex heads are only about 10mm long. I think you will have a hard time finding that short of a shouldered bolt...

.... so make some  ;) get the shortest shouldered bolt you can find... use a die to cut new threads.... cut to length

[jasonm.]

Kenny, that new type of clutch is not backwards compatible to older bikes. Unless you change the "gear" that enguages the starter. They use the new one on the second generation Ventures that came out ~'97 but failed to use it on the Vmax thru it's last year in '07. All Vmax '85- '07and Ventures ''83-'93 has the identical clutch as the Vision.  The clutch you speak of is a sprague clutch. Many elements built in it and also very expensive.  GO to the Yamaha parts web site. You'll see...

[Kenny]

  Hi Jason,
   I beg to differ with you on this one, the V-Max is the exception to what I said, in this case almost all Yamaha Starter Clutchs  after 1995 have been changed in design & have been less problematic than the type found in the Vision & V-Max. If they are not of the sprague type then they have more elements (rollers) than the type we have. I agree with your view that the new types are not compatible with the Vision,but a bolt with a short grip length beneath the head would provide more material against the clutch assy than the threads would. My u/s clutch assy besides being cracked has all the holes elongated and the bolt threads worn off beneath the head,thus while locking (staking) the bolt threads in the rotor is a good idea it does not cure the problem.
        ;) Cheers Ken S.