My Vision

[JohnAMcG]

       Let's see.  The V in my garage is my first bike.  I got my LP Monday, my Helmet Tuesday (the KBC Force RR), the bike (82' XZ550, from a friend looking to upgrade) Wednesday, insurance  and a new front turn signal Thursday, historic tags (20 yrs is the limit in MD, and no inspection required) Friday. 
       I had my friend start it up and drive it over to my house.  It had always run intermittently, and he never had tags on it.  The odometer shows 6190, but the speedo is not working.  He told me he had never taken it past 6k RPM, the times he rode it around the neighborhood.  Had VA inspection stickers from 07.  I gave it a good looking over, after doing my homework, it looked clean, and I'm a hands on guy so I bought it. 
       Take a ride around for my buddies Thursday, but later when my girl gets there, nothing, she wont start.  I was willing to chalk it up to jealousy, but I had to start getting my hands dirty.  Installed the turn signal.  Got inside and looked around, I knew I had fuse box issues and who knows what else. 
       Sunday morning at the auto parts store, and they don't have a decent fuse box so I go with the inline fuses.  Two were already done with inline, so I repair the others, and try to crank her over.  Cranks and cranks but won't turn over.  Pull the plugs and check for spark.  Nothing.  Check the cables and break out the multi-meter and haynes manual (came with the bike).
       I think this would be a good time to stop and thank you guys on the forum, Lucky's resource pages, and Dave's Ignition FAQ.  Also, my father, who has the garage and any tool I'll ever need.  I think I've forced him to get his 1970 Honda 750 Pre K, back on the road. 
       Anyhow, I had bought a new battery so I tested the charging system.  Stator tested good, original connector though, looked good, so I'll change it later.  Regulator tested good, so I moved on to the coils, all good.  The side stand relay proved faulty, so I cut the wire.  I don't like to do it, I added a new relay to the list.  Still no spark so I cut the rev limiter wire as well, although, I may have actually just had the coils unhooked.  Doh! Plugged everything back up and took her for a ride.  She starts right up, even after I stall, so I called and made my friend jealous, as he could never get it to start without a jump. 
    Now I need a  front rotor, mine is warped.   I just bought one from ebay.  I also want to rebuild the front caliper before I get ahead of myself.  I think I saw someone posted the numbers for the seals, so I'll try and find that.  I can't afford to but the whole kit with the piston from the dealer.
 
And pass my license test.                        -JM

[Tiger]

 :) Hi and welcome to the ROV...your new and extended family of Vision misfits from across the globe... :o ;D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D... ;)

         8).......TIGER....... 8)

[YellowJacket!]

Hi John and welcome to ROV.  Its always great to hear when someone brings a Vision back to life.
Where you located at?

David

[Rikugun]

David, can't you tell from his accent? He's from Maryland of course!

Welcome John!

[joenurse]

Welcome to ROV. Where do you live in MD? I'm right across the border in WV if you want to ride after your Vision is together (I just bought an '83 and get to start my Vision ownership with a stator replacement...go figure!)
...Joe

[JRSuprstar]

Welcome to ROV, JohnAMcG...hang on, I'm a newbie, too...hehe

JR

[Tiger]

...hang on, I'm a newbie, too...hehe

JR

:)...and welcome to you JR...is that a Canadian accent I here??

                    8).......TIGER....... 8)

[JohnAMcG]

     Thanks for the warm welcome everyone.  I live in a town called Dunkirk, it is about a half an hour south of DC.  I actually am going on a cabin trip into the Monangahela forest starting the 22nd.  I would love to ride up there, but, although I should have everything up and running by then, I may not have tested for my license yet.  I just got in from a ride, so much fun, but as the brakes heat up, the warp in the front gets unbearable.  I also still need to do the rear brace bolts, and get the speedo working.  I ordered the caliper seals from the dealer, thanks for the part numbers, I don't remember who posted them.  So, once all my parts get in, I will rebuild the brakes, maybe paint the front caliper, and hopefully fix the speedo at that time. 
     Sorry about your stator Joe, I thought mine needed one, from what I read and what I knew about the bike, but I tested her and she came out good, even with original connectors.  A guy near me parted out what he called a "cherry" 82 vision, because he couldn't get the title, I got a turn signal from him.  I asked about the stator, he said that was first to go.  $200!.  I asked about the front rotor, he said that was the second thing to go.  I asked about the tank, you guessed it.  Third. 
     Also, I am from Maryland, we don't have accents.  Well, unless you get too far south or into Baltimore, but I didn't include one "Ya'll" or "hun".  The level of accents is determined by how different you sound from a Marylander.  We have any other Visionaries in MD?

[akvision]

Check the Vision parts list in the Swap area..

Welcome to ROV and the Vision World.  Good people and good place.

[joenurse]

My parents live in Solomons, so I will be riding your way every now and again. I'll have to buy you lunch sometime when I'm on my way through.
...Joe

[kev10104]

Welcome guys and well done making your friend jealous!

[JohnAMcG]

     I finally got one of my pics to postable size.  I think. 

[JohnAMcG]

     Ok, now I need to vent.  I took a ride to 7-11 when I got home from work.  It was great.  Shut her down at the store, and when done, she started right up.  I haven't gotten my caliper seals yet, so I haven't done the brakes yet.  So I took it slow, also because I am just learning to ride.  When I got back to my neighborhood, I found some friend playing basketball, so I stopped and shut her down for about 10 minutes.  When I got back on, she cranked once or twice, then nothing.  Nothing at all.  No click, no crank, no nothing, just the idiot lights dim a little bit, then about 3 seconds after I let go of the start button, they come back bright.  I checked everything obvious, well, obvious to me, the battery was full of fluid, the fuses were good, I was in neutral, the engine stop switch was right.  Nothing.  I HAD TO PUSH HER HOME.  AAARRRGGGGGGHHHH.   Then to make matters worse, she got away from me on a hill, and fell over.  Bent the rear brake lever.  So now, I'm a quarter mile from home, in the middle of the street, with my rear brake stuck on.  I was so angry, I grabbed the bike and flipped it back up and on it's center stand, grabbed the damn brake lever, put my foot on the case and bent it out enough to release the brake.  Then I pushed her back home.

I am so angry I can't think straight.  SO now I'm thinking, I need to get in and get a look at the starter.  Ill check the battery and such first, but it is brand new.  Maybe clear headed I can think of some other things to check, but be sure, I am not giving up.  Just yet another opportunity to overcome adversity. 

[QBS]

Good news!  The starter can easily be checked while installed on the bike.  With the key off, put the bike on center stand in neutral, and attach a 12V powered positive cable to the starter motor power attachment lug.  Make sure that it does it does not touch anything but the attachment lug.  Touch and hold the negative end of your 12V power source to some obscure bare metal place on the engine.  The unused engine mounting point under the front is good.

Be prepared for sparking at the negative contact point.  Also be prepared for sound of the engine cranking, as if trying to start.  It won't start because the key is not on.  But the starter motor will function, or not, or something in between.  With a good fully charged battery, it should crank with authority.  Anything less, is indicative of either worn starter motor brushes, or oil soaked and worn starter motor brushes.  If so, the repair is easy, inexpensive, and semi-permanent.

If it cranks with authority, the problem is not the motor, and is up the line from there.  It is also easy and inexpensive to repair.  And, the repair is permanent.

Note: Even if the starter moter cranks with authority now, it may in the near future need to have its' oil seal upgraded to a single or double spring design.  If the history of this bike does not include this upgrade, the chances are that it still has its' OEM oil seal and needs to have a spring lip design oil seal installed.

[VFan]

I hesitate to comment because I'm still learning my RJ, but I wonder if you might have a faulty switch somewhere, such as the side stand, neutral, clutch. Not sure what to make of the 3 second delay between releasing the starter button and having the idiot lights come back to bright. I think I might have also have read about folks cutting their rev limiter wire to the TCI. Perhaps things worth researching on past posts until one of the experts reply.

I must admit that not long after I bought my RJ, I blew a fuse while riding. I had my cell phone on me so I called my wife to come pick me to buy a fuse. I now have spare fuses underneath the seat and I always have me cell phone with me when I ride. The more I ride it, the more the kinks get worked out and the performance and reliability goes up. Personally, I own beat up RJ that had virtually no maintenance for almost 30 years. As I slowly replace parts over time it gets newer and funner to ride by the month.

[Lucky]

A slight clarification to QBS's procedure.
1) use jumper cables, not a piece of wire, the amperage will melt the wire, burn your fingers & short out all over the place.
2) you only need the red side of the jumper cables. hook one end to your battery, the other just touch the positive lug on the starter (& no where else).  the bike should crank.
3) you could also just jump the starter solinoid large lugs with a screwdriver.  same thing.

A dirty starter switch will also also do exactly as you described.  remember the electricals on these bikes are nearly 30 years old so they are hiding many gremlins....

[Tiger]

The more I ride it, the more the kinks get worked out and the performance and reliability goes up. Personally, I own beat up RJ that had virtually no maintenance for almost 30 years. As I slowly replace parts over time it gets newer and funner to ride by the month.

:) This is what I tell every new Vision owner...Visions DO NOT like to sit around idle... the more you ride your Vision the better she will perform 8)

Season one, your working the gremlins out of her...Replace this, fix that, upgrade something, do the regular service things, etc...Season two and your really getting enjoyment from your old girl... 8)

                        8).......TIGER....... 8)

[kev10104]

It could be something simple as being in gear and not in neautral.

[JRSuprstar]

When I picked up my Vision, I got it home, hooked it up to a car battery I have for boosting, started and ran great
I knew she needed a battery (buddy kept the battery for his other bike), but I thought I'd slap it in and take off...that is, until I got the battery in  :(
it was hard starting and it made this awful clacking sound in the left side casing intermittently, it would crank over, but it was laboured cranking, it backfired occasionally and eventually drained the battery to clicking (brand new battery!), so I charge it...
I got it for a song, so I didn't mind putting a few dollars into it (love is blind)
Cleaned battery connections, solenoid to starter, negative to ground on engine, fusible links LOOKED good in the fusebox, but I replaced it for new..ha..I was gonna ride this bike!!
This didn't solve my problem, it was the same
I was lucky enough to find a perfect starter and installed it (replacing the oil at the same time), all the while thinking how fun it will be to take this girl out
This didn't solve my problem, it was the same and I'm getting frustrated
Get on the internet and look for info (BIG THANK YOU to ROV forum & Dave's ignition page)
OK, I'm gonna fix this thing now as a matter of principle, so I get in there and find the famed melted stator connector...uh-oh, so I check and see the stator is no good, r/r is OK
Replaced the stator among other things, wiring is a MESS  :o
Finished Wednesday night and took her for a ride in the dark
She started strong and ran great, the battery was fully charged when I got back and it started right up today at lunch, rode with no issues...I can't wait for the weekend!
Keep at it, they are sooo worth it!!

JR

 

[JohnAMcG]

  Ok, well today is the day.  My rotor is here, and the front caliper seals are in at the dealer.  Hoping my girl will pick them up for me.  Before I do all that, I am gonna test the charging system, and maybe take a ride, it may be a few days before I get her back together. 

I already cut out the side stand switch and the rev limiter, at the TCI.  So that wasn't the problem.  I will also test the starter, this bike looks really clean, and not much work done to her, I would be very surprised if the starter seal had been replaced.  Who would replace the starter seal, and not change the stator connection.  Anyhow, breakfast is done, so I am gonna get started.  I'll continue using this post to sort out my thoughts and vent my frustrations.  -JM