Author Topic: What did you do to your vision today?  (Read 58213 times)

Rikugun

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Re: What did you do to your vision today?
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2013, 09:33:35 AM »
The length of the travel would be shortened by the weaker than stock spring I described. Initially there would be little pump rod movement meaning less fuel released. As the spring preload increased rod movement would begin to match throttle linkage movement. That is if the spring was adequately strong to overcome the forces involved.

The same thing could be accomplished with the stock spring by backing off the adjustment. Initial throttle linkage movement would yield no rod movement until the spring accumulated preload. That's my theory anyway!  :D
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is then to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring.  Carl Sagan

treedragon

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Re: What did you do to your vision today?
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2013, 03:30:54 AM »
Today I re-soldered a number of dry joints in My TCI unit because it was seriously out of whack in that it would drop a cylinder or half and do some mind blowing backfires with increasing reliability  :o  :o  ;D  ;D  ;D

As a backstop for the weekend ride I slotted another unit in the steed and suitably caned it with the Ducati boys for 500k 0r so  8) and this turned out to offer useful info.

Now there was a difference between the two TCI units............ The one I repaired, ie my usual unit, is out of an XZ400 replacing the original that blew a few years ago prior to my getting into some in depth fiddling and not leaving well enough alone........... My temporary replacement for the weekend ride was a regular XZ550 unit and although it performed admirably it seemed to lack the pizzaz of the XZ400 unit, sort of proving what I had been told about the 400 having a better advance curve, (well at least in my mind anyway). I had never got around to checking the two one after the other.


Of course the other aspect possibly worth mentioning from the ride is "Did I notice any difference in handling with having the battery a few inches above ground level?", (recent modification)........... well yes I did actually and most noticeable on the tight, flick, flick, sort of corners............ like the first tight roundabout out of town and then I got lazy and started grinding the exhaust going over the Hope Saddle, sort of flick crunch oops, or maybe I am just getting too old to slide off the side quick enough...... ahem  :o  No never!! At least the new bellypan escaped unscathed.

Enough for now

   
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Prophet Of Doom

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Re: What did you do to your vision today?
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2013, 01:57:54 PM »
I run a 400 unit also. The curves are different, but only slightly.

See comparison here...
http://ridersofvision.net/rovforum/index.php?topic=14474.msg131843#msg131843

munkyfistfight

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Re: What did you do to your vision today?
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2013, 10:57:24 PM »
I made two separate check lists for what needs to be done to both of my Visions. I did this while sitting in my car on a break from work. I also moved the parts from my "Mystery Vision" into my basement for the removal-of-green-paint process I'm about to go through. The PO HAND painted many of the parts a "Joker Green". Judging from chips in the green paint, I can see that the original paint was metallic grey, which looked to be nice. Too bad it's ruined and now I have to sand the hell out of it.

Tiger said something to me this past weekend that I'll never forget: "Someone took the love out of it. You have to put the love back into it." Words to live by in the Vision world.
Those who play by the book will always be beaten by those who write their own. -Travis Pastrana

Rikugun

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Re: What did you do to your vision today?
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2013, 06:59:34 AM »
That sounds like something Tiger would say...nicely put!  :)
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is then to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring.  Carl Sagan

pinholenz

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Re: What did you do to your vision today?
« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2013, 02:44:30 PM »
I am starting to put in some decent miles on the bike now and growing in confidence with its handling and quirks. The off throttle stumble is still a serious problem and changing the spring and adjusting the accelerator pump rod length from one extreme to the other by increments has not got rid of it.

I'll next adjust the volume being delivered by the pump as Roro has suggested. I had it set up to deliver the specified volume but, all other things being equal, this may be too much or too little.

Rich bog or lean bog - how can you tell?
Only one '82.5  eXtreme Zen 550

Rikugun

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Re: What did you do to your vision today?
« Reply #26 on: February 25, 2013, 05:12:20 PM »
Glad to hear you are getting some nice rides in. Funny how confidence makes the experience so much better!  ;)

You might try the enrichener (choke) to aid in your diagnosis. Apply some choke and if the problem gets better it's lean, if it gets worse it's rich. This test isn't always conclusive but costs nothing to try.  :) Having said that you need to ensure the engine is up to factory specs before trying to "jet" the problem away. BTW, how do you plan on changing the pump volume?

Is the valve lash within spec? Is compression good? Do you have vaccum leaks? Is an adequate supply of clean fuel being supplied to the carbs? Are the carbs meticulously clean? Are they tuned properly i.e. float height, idle mixture, synced? Jet sizes correct? Accell nozzles spraying correctly? YICS uncompromised? Air box flapper working properly? Clean air filter? Wires/caps/plugs up to snuff?

Until theses things are sorted the bog may remain and sorting these things often takes care of the bog.  :)
« Last Edit: February 25, 2013, 05:18:46 PM by Rikugun »
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is then to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring.  Carl Sagan

treedragon

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Re: What did you do to your vision today?
« Reply #27 on: February 28, 2013, 12:40:35 AM »
Today I cut off the rear sub frame at about the mid seat point. I figured it would be easier to visualize the changes to come without having excess steel in the way............

and just in case anyone is wondering, several years ago, (already?? :o  I cut out the support from the rear footpeg area and moved it forward and have been meaning to lighten things for some time now. Today there was a part-off saw handy and it is a single seater after all.......  ;D

That just leaves: putting in a new seat support, re-modelling the seat/tailpiece and tail light, and putting in an easy to access "electrical area" for TCI,fuses, flasher units etc.

Am also pondering on an oil cooler down in the bellypan, there is bound to be something floating around the place that will fit.

   
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Fuzzlewump

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Re: What did you do to your vision today?
« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2013, 01:12:32 AM »
 
 After a few weeks waiting on parts to arrive, I can now add to this thread, which has turned out to be one of my favorites to follow.

 I like the idea of Visionaries all around the globe working on their machines independently yet simultaneously, lost in their own worlds but connected in this one. This particular thread strikes me as a kind of microcosm of that reality....snapshot evidence of each different person working away a little at a time. I dunno, when I'm working on mine I'm definitely off in my own world.

 Today I put new fork and dust seals (and retaining clips) on the forks, and did the upgrade to tapered steering bearings. Old fork oil was a nasty maple syrup color, with the consistency of the liquid part of puke (that's what it reminded me of, anyway). Kinda chunky. There was probably less than two ounces in each fork, which would explain in part at least why the forks had virtually no compression. Everything cleaned up nicely, though.

 Steering stem bearings were not as tricky to deal with as I had thought they would be, thanks of course to this community. I was kind of shocked to see that the old bearings were really worn out, something I couldn't feel by rotation until after removing the headlight and instrument box. Glad I made the decision to do the upgrade, I had almost put it off!

 Everything's tight and clean, looks nice and feels nicer. Nine hours spent on it today, and it feels great just having done the work. It's crazy how easy it is to question ourselves sometimes. I read up on certain tasks with this bike and begin to feel a bit intimidated at the prospect, but once I've finished it I realise that it was actually a piece of cake, well within my capabilities. Still a lot of work left on the V, but I can see myself getting closer to riding condition now, the light's showing up at the end of the tunnel. Great day, man...great day.
Know ye not that ye are a gremlin?? Thou hast no quarter here- flee now from me!!

Rikugun

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Re: What did you do to your vision today?
« Reply #29 on: March 01, 2013, 04:02:57 PM »
Nice entry Fuzzlewump!  ;D Really like your reference to the global Vision community unified by this forum and the simultaneous resurrection, repair, maintenance, and love bestowed upon this our obsession of choice.  ;)

Nice to hear of the upgrades and nice ones they are. It makes perfect sense to do the neck bearings together with the forks too. 
Quote
Nine hours spent on it today, and it feels great just having done the work
  Amen brother, amen.  :D
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is then to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring.  Carl Sagan

pinholenz

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Re: What did you do to your vision today?
« Reply #30 on: March 03, 2013, 04:02:05 AM »
Having changed the spring and the accelerator rod adjustment with only marginal effect, today I thought I would have a go at the "enrichen test" suggested by Rikugun to deal with the bog. (BTW I had carefully measured the volume being squirted into each carb by adjusting the stop that limits the travel of the pump diaphragm.)
 
Started the bike with the pony tank on just to check again that the flapper was working OK and noticed no charge on the voltmeter. This was a wee distraction..... Having enjoyed 1000kms of trouble free, (boggy!) riding I was starting to feel some affectionate reliability. Another blown (second hand) rectifier.!! Stator checked out OK, AC 5OV+ from all three pairs of wires. Rectifier blew in the open state so battery wasn't cooked.. Count your blessings.

Next R/R is going to be a Mosfet sourced today from a 2009 CBR600RR on Trademe, our local auction listing.

One step at a time.....
Only one '82.5  eXtreme Zen 550

Prophet Of Doom

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Re: What did you do to your vision today?
« Reply #31 on: March 03, 2013, 04:19:52 AM »
R/r will only support a high current draw for a short time. How fresh is your battery? Have you measured resistance of your wiring?

If either are faulty your new MOSFET will go splat just as fast.

pinholenz

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Re: What did you do to your vision today?
« Reply #32 on: March 04, 2013, 05:03:39 AM »
Nope, haven't tested resistance in the loom, only around the spark circuit/coils. Battery is 5 years old, very unused and holds a charge well.

I am a Vision newbie AND this is the first multimeter I have ever owned in my life.  (I love the excuse to get new gadgets. It has auto-ranging!- How sexy is that, or not?)

So, here's me guessing what to do.  Please chip in and correct me. I think I am trying to measure the total resistance of a series circuit except in those areas where it gets interrupted by TCI units and solenoids.

1. Disconnect battery
2. Set meter to Ohms and clip alligator probes on to the disconnected battery leads. A reading of 0.00 or there-abouts means that there is a short in the circuit. (minimum resistance - same as touching the two probes together) Turn the ignition on and take the base reading with only ignition load on the circuit.
3. Press starter button and measure load
4. Turn lights on and off, measure load
5. Turn high beam on and off, measure load
6. Turn left and right indicator on and off ,measure loads
7. Push horn button and measure load
8. Pull handbrake on, measure load, then off.
9. Push footbrake on measure load, then off.
10. Continue for all other electrical devices attached to bike, not forgetting the fan. (Short out the fan switch to turn "on").

Am I on the right track here?

Next, look for any unusually LOW resistance which might indicate a device on the circuit that  is drawing unusually high current causing a drain on the battery and overworking  the R/R.

What sort of figures are "normal". ( When I measure the resistance across two terminals of a household lamp its 35 Ohms, same for a couple of other devices such as  a hot air gun when its switched to the on position.)

Back 4 or 5 decades when I was in school, Voltage = Current x Resistance.

Therefore if my circuit voltage = 14volts and my measured resistance is 50 ohms, then the current draw for that device would be 0.28 amps.  But if the resistance was just 0.5 ohms then the  circuit would draw 28 amps and I should be popping fuses and burning out my R/R. Right?

Hope you don't mind me thinking out loud, but by my reckoning I should be hoping for resistances of say,  2 Ohms and above around my wiring circuit? Going down to maybe, 1 Ohm on the starter circuit when the start button is pushed?

Thanks.

Only one '82.5  eXtreme Zen 550

Rikugun

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Re: What did you do to your vision today?
« Reply #33 on: March 04, 2013, 11:19:33 AM »
Are you just trying to diagnose why it's not charging? If so, you are over thinking the problem.  :D It may be an interesting experiment to map circuit resistance but unless you are blowing fuses or a particular circuit isn't working, you may be on a wild goose chase. All the circuits will have some resistance depending on the condition of the wires, connections, switchgear, quantity/wattage bulbs, etc.,etc., but there is no published data (that I'm aware of) on what these values should be. You'd then be relying on skill and knowledge that by your own admission you lack. The meter is a great tool but don't let it get you in trouble!  :)

Health of the battery can not be determined by a voltage check alone. For lead acid batteries a hydrometer and volts would be much more accurate. You may get 12.5vdc (nominal sitting overhight post charging) but have one or more weak cells that under load will not deliver the goods. It's just a "surface" charge. Five years is pushing it but not impossible. If you get 14 or so across the battery just off idle, charging is OK but it doesn't mean the battery is necessarily healthy. My GPz battery is 6 years old and measures 12.5 when charged but takes longer to get there and loses it quicker than when new. The hydrometer shows all 6 cells to be "fair". This will work for that bike as it spins over easily and starts within a revolution or two. That condition battery in a Vision however would be very limited as many singles and twins place high demands on starting systems.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2013, 11:52:58 AM by Rikugun »
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is then to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring.  Carl Sagan

Re-Vision

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Re: What did you do to your vision today?
« Reply #34 on: March 04, 2013, 11:31:41 AM »
Am I on the right track here?
No.
Your steps #1 through 10 will not likely tell you much. Rather than looking for a low resistance on a circuit that can't be activated, try measuring current where a fuse would normally be and see if any DC current readings are approaching fuse limits. Excessive current in any particular circuit will leave you with a much smaller area to troubleshoot rather than all electric circuits combined. Resistance measurements are usually made when isolating suspected components without power being applied.     BDC   

Rikugun

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Re: What did you do to your vision today?
« Reply #35 on: March 04, 2013, 11:51:41 AM »
Re-Vision makes a great point that amp reading on individual circuits would be valuable especially if you are blowing fuses. If you are trying to determine why the R/R expired - good luck! There are many theories and little consensus. On bikes this old the fuse box is a likely candidate for resistance. You can isolate it and check resistance but I'd recommend replacing it if you haven't allready. There are many references on the forum to guide you as it is a popular upgrade. I'm not claiming it killed your R/R but the electrical system will thank you. Every circuit will likely realize a net gain in voltage.  ;)

Since you are getting 50vac stator output I'll assume you performed static ohm tests (open, shorted, resistance value) and it passed.  :D You also determined the R/R is no good so you'll be getting another.  I'd suggest connecting it's positive and ground leads directly to the battery posts. Another thing to check/clean is the main battery ground to the engine and the harness eyelet ground under the left(?) coil mount.
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is then to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring.  Carl Sagan

pinholenz

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Re: What did you do to your vision today?
« Reply #36 on: March 04, 2013, 02:03:54 PM »
Thanks  Rikugun. Charging was just fine until I blew another R/R after 1000 kms. Engine starts after battery has been standing for a week within 3 seconds of turning over the starter. I have cleaned the earths at the coils, but not the main earth connection- where is that? I will buy an hydrometer and work through the testing guidelines I found here:

http://www.batterystuff.com/kb/articles/battery-articles/battery-basics.html#6

As Roro suggested, I am trying to check if there is a component on the circuit which is drawing an inordinate current before I put a new MOSFET R/R in and blow that as well by overtaxing it. No fuses are blowing, and I haven't upgraded the fuse box yet. I don't think this is an issue for my R/R, but it is on my "to do" list in the winter.

Re-Vision, to  test the current (amperage) at the fuse am I right in assuming that I should put in the new R/R, have the bike running at say, 4K rpm and  measure the current between a fuse connection and the bike frame?.

Thanks for your collective wisdom.
Only one '82.5  eXtreme Zen 550

Rick G

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Re: What did you do to your vision today?
« Reply #37 on: March 04, 2013, 04:12:29 PM »
Replace the fuse box before you proceed , It's mandatory on all old bikes , especially Yamahas . With the bike running at 2000 to 2500 rpm check the  voltage at the battery . It should be around 13.5 VDC or slightly more . 12.5 wont do it. The RR may have blown because ! You may never know why. The voltage straight out of the stator (three while wires , Suzuki is yellow ) should be 55 volts VAC, give or take .Take readings on any two wires , until you have measured all three.
Rick G
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'74  XL350   Honda , 77 XL350 Honda, 78 XL350 Honda, '82 XT 200 Yamaha, '67 Yamaha YG1TK, 80cc trail bike

Rikugun

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Re: What did you do to your vision today?
« Reply #38 on: March 04, 2013, 04:58:27 PM »
Rick, where do you get 12.5 volts running ("12.5 wont do it") from?

pinhole - re the main earth, follow the battery ground cable down to the engine. I'm not sure what test Roro is talking about so I'll let him address that but if you are concerned with excess draw, the fuse box is absolutely a potential candidate. Even if the fuse clips look sound all the wire connections are crimped from the factory and nearly guaranted to be less than optimal causing increased draw. I would really encourage you to take that project on before going any further.

Quote
Re-Vision, to  test the current (amperage) at the fuse am I right in assuming that I should put in the new R/R, have the bike running at say, 4K rpm and  measure the current between a fuse connection and the bike frame?.
I'm unclear as to what you're trying to test here so again I'll let Roro answer but.... Keep in mind any amp test will be done in series and the gage has to be able to handle the expected draw (plus safety margin) of the circuit being tested. Also, many inexpensive gages only tolerate 10 amps which is insufficient. Some are also sensitive to polarity.
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is then to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring.  Carl Sagan

Re-Vision

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Re: What did you do to your vision today?
« Reply #39 on: March 04, 2013, 07:01:42 PM »
Connect Ammeter between two fuse connections of whatever fuse you have removed, make sure your meter can handle what ever current your fuse is handling. If you connect one lead from fuse hotside to ground you are shorting directly to ground and who knows what will give up without a fuse installed, probably fuse in your multi-meter.     BDC

 

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