Better brakes on the cheap

[QBS]

Recent postings regarding bigger brakes has got me to thinking about how to acquire more braking power with a minimum of simple modifications and expenditures.  I have neither the fabrication resources nor $ to engage in any modification on my own, but I can still dream and conjure up visions of what might could be.  For me, engineering solutions to problems generates at least half of the satisfaction I would derive from solution engineering and implementation, at zero cost.  Cheap thrills and all that.   The opinions of all interested readers would be appreciated.

For '82 Vs, I've been considering the concept of using a custom fabricated caliper mount to attach a 2 pot caliper to the stock forks.  The stock brake rotor would be retained.  A stainless brake line would be used, as would the stock master cylinder.  The custom caliper mount would be the most costly componet.  I would think that 2 pot calipers are commonly available for very little money.  In the recent big brake discussion, Rikuguns' set up made a lot sense to me.  My thinking here is to basically get what he has for less money and effort.  The difference is that his larger rotor will probably generate more braking force than my concept.  There are certainly other pros and cons as well.

For '83 Vs, the concept is the same as above x2.  However, due to the smaller diameter of the '83 brake rotors, it might be better to mount '82 rotors in their place.  Also as above, there are certainly pros and cons as well.

[sunburnedaz]

What I want from the brakes i the ability to modulate the pressure better. It seems to me that the I can generate enough stopping force to lock the front wheel up but it comes on like a light switch and I have to squeeze quite hard to do that. That's what I like about my F4i I can modulate the pressure to control how much force is applied much better than the Vision.

[QBS]

Don't know your set up.  But if you're not running stainless steel brake lines you'll get the characteristics you've described.  That how my stock '83 stopped until I got the stainless steel lines.  It felt very uncertain when I wanted max stop but no lock up.  After the stainless lines all I need is just a little more stop.  Controllablity is no longer an issue.

On an '83, I think running 2 '82 rotors with 2 pot calipers would be the optimal set up.  The rotors are readily available for little or no $, and they would bolt on with no modification uncertainty.  2 pot calipers  are also cheap and easy to find.  If the bike was already equipped with stainless steel lines, there's a good chance that they would mate to the new calipers with no modification necessary.  The difficultly, and potentially greatest expense, would be in acquiring the caliper adaptors.  I am also uncertain about whether or not the stock '83 master cylinder would be adequate.  But, I'm thinking that it would probably work.  If not, a unit from a common twin disc, 2 pot  caliper system would solve that problem without too much difficulty being involved.

[The Prophet of Doom]

New brake lines are not an upgrade, they are a maintenance item.  Yamaha recommends new MC and caliper seals every two years, hoses every four years.  You could try and get rubber ones made if you like soggy braking, but they are not available from Yamaha.

I can't see why a 82 rotor / 2 pot combo would be a hugely cheaper - I guess it depends what you can find on the day.  My R1 rotors cost me nothing, they were thrown in with a tyre I bought, and the brembos were pretty reasonable considering they are NOS.  There are certainly many cheap calipers out there theres a pair of 4 pot Tokicos on ebay now for $20 ea

Caliper adapters are not going to be a major expense unless you are going to get them made by someone - the metal I bought for mine (10mm 6061-T6 plate)  cost about $10.  The only items of equipment you need to make adapters are a ruler, jigsaw, drill and file.  Most people people who own an XZ will have these - or access to them I would think.

[supervision]

 QBS, when I put 83 forks on my bike, by mistake I used a 82 master, It worked, my biggest complaint it was too much power. when it was fresh I only used one finger.

[Cdnlouie]

Just FYI, you can't put two 82 discs on the Vision  :(.  You could put an 82 on the usual left side and an 83 on the right and have quite an unusual look, but no doubt good braking.  The reason being is that you don't have a right fork leg that will work with the larger 82 rotor, so if you want uniformity you have to go to the smaller 83 dual discs.  As mentioned a few fellows have adapted much more modern calipers successfully if you really want to stop like a newer bike.  Getting their adaptor patterns would certainly save you a lot of work if you want to do a brake improvement.  Installing new components and cleaning up calipers of corrosion, and stainless lines really gives the 82 a great brake even on the stock setup and without too much hassle.

[QBS]

Thank you Cdnlouie and everyone else for your inputs.

[Rikugun]

Just FYI, you can't put two 82 discs on the Vision  :(. 

Sure you can.  :) Any '83 Vision or '82 Vision with '83 forks can be fit with larger '82 rotors. As previously discussed, adapter plates would have to be used to mount the calipers.

[charlie h.]

I believe the FJ600 or FZ600 rotors are the same size as the 83 Vision rotors, and they are slotted. Solid rotors fade under heavy braking due to gas buildup from the heat and friction involved, where slotted or drilled rotors, do not. As for 82 rotors, 98-03 R1 or R6 rotors  are the same size and ditto, they are drilled so you get rid of the common problem of brake fade under hard and frequent braking as on a spirited ride or on the track. I would get rid of the solid rotors, as they do not give fade free braking under any circumstance. That is why they started drilling or slotting rotors as a way of venting the gas off the pads and rotors. My idea is to replace my 82 rotors with drilled r1's and then see what it gives me. I run a Vision front end on my RD350 race bike and it has a FJ1300 master cyl that works well with the single piston caliper stock on  the XZ550. If I need better caliper, I will mount a 4 piston blue star Yamaha caliper, as they are one piece and are very good and reasonably priced.

[pinholenz]

I believe that all the Australasian Visions had two front rotors from '82 onwards. My bike was first registered in '84 but it is an '82 model that hung around in the showroom. Two solid rotors.

[Rick G]

The Vision racer that I bought in 2003, had  stock 83 slotted discs. They were mildly warped . after  further use , they were warped so badly that I could not use the front brake, only at low speed. I replaced them with solid discs from an '85 Virago. had no  problems since. I'm not a cautious rider either.