Fuel and Fuel Filters

[RBFD415]

As I noted elsewhere I'm tearing down my Vision carbs again. Its been about 2 years since I did it last. I was left stuck on the side of the road late last year when the bike sputtered out one night. I think opening up the carbs may have provided some insight. The fuel that was sitting in the bottom of the bowels was a decidedly un-gasoline appearing "tea" color with a lot of particulate floating around! Yes, I do run a fuel filter 100% of the time, buy only the highest quality fuel, always premium and mix "Stab-bil" in since my bike will sit from time to time.

I guess my topic for discussion- the typical inline fuel filter doesn't seem to be effective?! Is there a better alternative out there aside from the run of the mill filter?

[Walt_M.]

Sounds like ethanol poisoning to me. No filter will remove ethanol and once it gets in the carburetors it starts doing its dirty work. No problem if you ride every day but if you let it set for days, or weeks, don't use ethanol fuel.

[Rikugun]

As I noted elsewhere I'm tearing down my Vision carbs again. Its been about 2 years since I did it last. I was left stuck on the side of the road late last year when the bike sputtered out one night. I think opening up the carbs may have provided some insight. The fuel that was sitting in the bottom of the bowels was a decidedly un-gasoline appearing "tea" color with a lot of particulate floating around! Yes, I do run a fuel filter 100% of the time, buy only the highest quality fuel, always premium and mix "Stab-bil" in since my bike will sit from time to time.

I guess my topic for discussion- the typical inline fuel filter doesn't seem to be effective?! Is there a better alternative out there aside from the run of the mill filter?

What was the time lapse between dying last fall and disassembling the carbs? If not drained right away, any residual fuel may have turned to a tea color. Have you identified what the particulate is?

I think the fuel filters we use by necessity are only filtering to a certain size and some stuff goes through. Or at least more than say a filter designed for fuel injected engines might let through.

[The Prophet of Doom]

Sounds like it's time for a tank clean.
Not all fuel filters are equal.  The cheapest ones are just a plastic mesh, and not very effective, the gold are finer, and I think reservoir filters better than the flow through type.  Mine has a rare earth magnet in it also.


Dark fuel is normal after aging in a rusty tank

 

[Rikugun]

Dark fuel is normal after aging in a rusty tank

Couldn't hurt to give the gunk in the bowls  the magnet test.

[RBFD415]

After getting stuck, rather than lose my temper with it I let it sit till now (that night I ended up pushing the bike for 2 miles!)- so its been months. I suppose that accounts for the color?!

I'll give it a magnet test. I broke down and purchased a ultrasonic cleaner and have started work on the front carb already.

As far as the dreaded ethanol issue- I'm throwing this out there as well, as I said I'm extra careful to buy only the best quality fuel but still its tough to avoid the alcohol content. As a firefighter I've talked to other FD's who use a product called "True-Fuel" its pure gasoline with ZERO alcohol. Its begun to gain traction with FD use in power saws and rescue gear. The big downside is the cost- its around $5.00 a quart, obviously a considerable jump from even the priciest name brand premium fuels (here in the U.S.). However- if it limits some of the issues, then is it maybe worth considering? Perhaps using for the initial start up and mixing it with the pump grade to limit how much alcohol is running thru the carbs?

As always, thanks for your input guys!

[Walt_M.]

Check the Puregas site for a list of stations that have marine gas, no ethanol.  They are listed by state and there are a lot of them.

[Rikugun]

I wasn't aware that "marine" gasoline is necessarily ethanol free like aviation gas currently is. Is it?

The ethanol free canned gas you refer to is primarily marketed to homeowners for seasonal power equipment where fuel might sit in them for long periods of time unused. It has a long shelf life, generally higher octane and other advantages to ethanol blends but as you pointed out isn't cost effective for general wide spread use. You won't often see lawn care companies using it for their equipment for instance.

I'd try Walt's suggestion and see if there are any gas stations in your area that sell ethanol free fuels.
http://pure-gas.org/ 
Short of that, replace your fuel lines with new, drain the carbs after every ride (unless it sees daily use), and treat your fuel at every fill up.

[The Prophet of Doom]

I have not tried this but this has been going around for a while - how to make your own alcohol free fuel.


Attach a clear plastic hose to a jerry can and put a tap on the end.
Fill the jerry can with blend fuel, then add about 2% distilled water.  Shake, and then strap the jerry can upside down.  Leave it for a while to separate.
Any alcohol will mix with the water and drop below the petroleum and is darker. Any leftover water settles to the bottom and is clear.
Open the tap and drain out the water, then the water/alcohol mix.  The clear hose lets you see when you change layers. What you have left is water and alcohol free fuel.  Add an octane booster.

[RBFD415]

Great conversation and ideas. I'll check on the marine fuel.

Another thought on "Av-gas" , I work at a complex next to an airport (mid size private field). Can I just buy fuel there, if I pull up with a 5 gallon container? What's the going rate for aviation grade fuel?

I did a very quick magnet test late last night when I got home with the residue I drained from the carbs, seems like clumps of the debris were attracted to the field. I'll do a better job today when I'm more awake.

[Rikugun]

That's an interesting idea about taking the ethanol out of pump gas but isn't the ethanol added to boost octane?

Regarding AV-gas, some airports will sell gas to anyone with a can and a credit card although the price is twice or more of pump gas for your car. The top listing on this page is for a local small airfield.
https://flightaware.com/resources/airport/39N
They have a self serve pump (100LL SS) which runs currently at $4.75 /gallon. You can't use it in newer bikes with catalytic converters due to the lead content.

The shelf life of AV-gas is considerably higher than auto fuels. I recently was involved with inspections on these two planes. One hadn't been run in several years but fired right up - once the batteries were replaced that is. Try doing that with your Vision after a lengthy dormant period and several year old gas in the carbs and tank.  :(