Won't start (battery?)

[dchakrab]

So I took my chances and plugged the battery in, tried starting it.

Sidestand up, gas in the tank, fuel filter connected, petcock on prime.

Turned key, hit the starter...got nothing. Decided I should probably try it with the engine kill switch on.

Turned the key, headlight came on...good, means I connected everything the right way :) ...start cranking, but won't start.

Reading old posts on this forum, I decided it was time to pull out the crappy multimeter.

By itself, battery = 12V ish (my meter's crappy).
When the bike's on (as far as I can tell, this means just the headlight, since nothing else is on) ...between 10V and 12V.

Cranking...10V.

I'm assuming that's the problem...I need it to be at 12V cranking, or it won't turn over?

Unfortunately, I've got nothing I can try jumping this with, so I have no way of knowing if the problem's something else (crap in the carbs, stator, etc) ...thoughts?

Any input on this would be helpful (check my battery thread) ...if the battery's not going to cut it, I only paid $16 for it, so I'm hesitant to return it. Give me some creative ideas for it...I'm thinking someday, when I know what I'm doing, it'll be a secondary battery for laptop / phone charging from the V :)

And this also means I'm walking a hell of a long way back to Kmart to get new battery and return the DieHard charger. New battery = $50, so this is going to push my finances pretty much to the limit.

What do you guys think?

  Dave.

[Superfly]

Did you check for a spark?

[dchakrab]

I'm a complete newbie when it comes to engines / cars / bikes.

How do I check for a spark? I remember the mechanic I was working with on the other V doing this when we couldn't get that to turn over.

If someone can post instructions, I'll give it a shot.

Picked up a new battery, with the same rating as the one that was in the bike (the other one I tried was 10L A2 instead of 14...this one's a 14). Filled it with electrolyte, let it sit for a half hour to soak, and now it's charging. Once it's done, I'll top of electrolyte with some of the leftover acid, and then try it in the bike to see if it makes a difference. Also have carb cleaner, since my landlord suggested spraying some into the carbs to see if that'll make a difference.

  Thanks,

    Dave.

[Superfly]

Pull the plug cap off of the spark plug.  Sitck a long screw, nail, etc... into the plug cap.  hold the plug cap and have the nail about a 1/4" away from the frame.  when you hit the starter button, the engine will turn over, and you should see a bright blue spark arcing across (between the nail & the frame)

Remember, it takes 3 things to start a engine. 
1 - Spark
2 - Gas
3 - Compression

They will be the main things you check for, and I usually do it in that order also.

[dchakrab]

I have spark. I stuck a nail in the cap, held it near the frame, and when it's close enough a tiny spark jumps from one to the other.

What's next? Try it with the carb cleaner? I assume I do this by taking the tank off, taking the airbox off, and then spraying cleaner down into the carbs?

  Dave.

[haunter]

I have spark. I stuck a nail in the cap, held it near the frame, and when it's close enough a tiny spark jumps from one to the other.

What's next? Try it with the carb cleaner? I assume I do this by taking the tank off, taking the airbox off, and then spraying cleaner down into the carbs?

  Dave.

check and make sure the vacumn from the carb boot to the petcock is plugged in so fuel will go to the carbs, or put it on prime and pull teh line to make sure gas is exiting the petcock

[dchakrab]

I doubt that's the problem, since Dion had the bike running before I picked it up and I haven't changed touched any of the lines going in / out of the petcock, except:

I cut off a very short piece of fuel line.
Disconnected the line directly under the petcock switch (this runs to the carbs, right?).
Connected fuel filter in between petcock and carbs.

There's a little bit of gas in the fuel filter, so I'm thinking gas is flowing, but it may just be leftover gas in the lines. I'm going to try pulling it to see if I really have gas or not.

New battery's taking a lot longer to charge...it's been several hours, and it's still showing "charging" ...multimeter reads it at over 12V, probably 13 or 14V (hard to read the needle right, it's dark in my basement).

  D.

[Superfly]

Are the carbs 83?  If so, they need to be primed. 

Pull off the airbox, look down the carbs, pull back on the throttle, and see if a stream of gas is going into the cylinders.

[Extent]

The charger will put out more than 12V to charge the battery, and the battery will read a little high for a minute or two after you disconnect it from the charger.  Remember the Visions electrical system charges the battery at 14.5V

[dchakrab]

"It lives!" thought Igor, as he watched his creation lurch off the table and down the village.

The first battery (the lower-powered one) worked. I took the tank and airbox off and sprayed a ton and a half of carb cleaner down into it. First couple of times it didn't make a difference, then it caught for a couple of seconds before dying.

Good...so I figured that part was ok, and it was a fuel headache.

Went down to the gas station and bought a fuel can, put 2 gallons in it. Put half of that into the tank.

Didn't make a difference...ended up flooding it. I assumed "on" was vacuum operating, meaning that it wouldn't leak, and "prime" would just let everything flow...I think this is right?

So I take out my fuel filter, and a *lot* of gas comes back the other way, from the jet going into the carb (or I think it's the one going into the carb). I mean a lot. I had to stick the thing back in my fuel can and wait ten minutes for it all to drain out. Good thing, too...I was going to use the super-thin straw to squirt carb cleaner through the jet, and while I was waiting I remembered that carb cleaner might eat the jet.

Anyway, once all the gas drained out, I pulled the choke all the way to the left (I'm assuming this is full choke -> high rpm, no gas) and it started! I don't know if my victory scream was louder than the bike or not.

Turned choke off...bike still likes to start with the choke more than without it. Definitely not a "pump the throttle till it starts" kind of bike.

Started it a few more times, and it works every time.

Then it died. Sounded a lot like "I'm out of gas" dying, which made sense, since I hadn't connected the petcock to the carb yet. I took out the bolt I was using to block the petcock jet, connected it back in to the fuel filter, switched it to "prime" and tried again. It still starts. So I've established fuel flow, if nothing else, with a fuel filter to catch any crap in the tank.

And this is on the wrong battery...is this going to be a problem? Should I wait till I connect the other battery...is the weaker one going to hurt my stator / R/R?

I'm happy...haven't stopped grinning since it fired up. Now I have to keep myself from wanting to ride it, since I've got no insurance / license / title, and Chicago cops tend to be somewhat skeptical of us brown-skinned folk in nice 'burbs like this one.

Though a little up-down in the alley can't hurt, surely...

  Dave.

[haunter]

congrats!

[Kevin]

Superfly woulk you explain about priming the carbs on a 83? When I rebuilt my buddies 83 carbs I didn't think it would ever start and unce it fired off it has run fine.   

[Kevin]

My spelling isn't really this bad. When I hit post this computer changes some of the letters on me. ;D   

[ps2/bikevision]

way to go. its good to hear when another vision finally fires up. i get pumped everytime when mine fires.

[dchakrab]

way to go. its good to hear when another vision finally fires up. i get pumped everytime when mine fires.

Rare, is it?  ;D

I hope to hear mine fire on a very regular basis from now on.

Dion says the turn signals, fuel indicator, tach, etc all worked, but none of them work now, so I'm wondering if I need to replace fuses or jiggle some wires. After I change the oil...

  D.

[h2olawyer]

COOL!!!  ;D  Thought I heard a joyful yell coming from the east a little while ago.

Check the fuses for the various non-functioning electrics.  Then go through each connector & clean them all.  Call it "Vision bonding" time.  One of the few things that is really cheap & an excellent way to learn more about your bike.

As long as you don't run for an extended length of time, the smaller battery shouldn't hurt anything.  Kind of like putting a 400 amp battery in an F250.  It will work, but won't be able to make full use of the available charging output.  For short test rides and getting everything adjusted, as long as you don't let the bike get too hot (needle near top of green), your stator is probably not getting too hot either.  Just a hunch, but that should work OK until you can get the correct battery.

H₂O 

[Lucky]

Dchakrab,
Today you are a Visionary!!! ;D ;D ;D

sure Kevin..uh huh.. the computer changed the spelling, yup!  :o :o ;D

[dchakrab]

Thanks, guys. I actually jumped out of bed this morning for once, thinking about the nice long day ahead...I have to work till about 5, though.

I'll take a look at the fuses and see what I can see. None of the instruments work, so I can't tell when it's getting hot. Since the new battery finally says it charged, I'm going to go ahead and swamp the batteries now and use the right one from the start.

D.

[QBS]

After a battery has been initially acidized, it never receives acid again.  Only add distiled water to your battery in the future.

[dchakrab]

Oh...oops. If Kmart would include directions with these things, it'd help...one of the batteries had partial directions, the other one had nothing  ???

Thankfully, I didn't blow anything up...I'll stick to bottled water for the batteries from now on, unless I'm unlucky enough to need a new battery again in the near future.

  Dave.