Matte Black Paint Question

[Rube]

So I have been tossing up different ideas on how to paint my V.

One of my ideas is blacking out the bike and I'm leaning towards painting the tank, plastics, wheels (with a polished lip), forks, and rear swing arm Matte black and then do some glossy black details.

From what I have researched, it looks like a pretty easy process to do the matte black. Primer, a flat base coat, and then a satin clear coat. No wet sanding or anything like that. I have experience in Mil-Spec painting, but none in automotive. Clear coats are a mystery to me.    :laugh:

My question is, does anyone here have any experience with matte painting? If so, through your experience, is there any do's and don'ts that you have learned about and do you have any recommendations on brands of paint to use?

Thanks

[Blurred Vision]

 Paint was my life for a long time, i can probably help you out.
1) dont mix different products stick with all the same brand, for all your layers.
2) Dont mix laquers and enamels. You can put enamels over well cured laquers, but u cant put laquer over enamel, it will lift off the enamel in a blistering reaction. It all has to do with solvents.
3) Ive used Duplicolor, Rustoleum, tremclad and even some multisurface paints from the home depot.
4) Pay attention to the humidity, too much you might as well not paint that day.
5) Sanding always makes for a better mechanical adhesion even if its just smoothing out the paint with scotchbrite.
6) Many satin finishes have high solid content and can look cloudy after applying.
7) always test things on scraps to make sure they work together properly.
8) the gastank will be the most difficult part of the job lol. Its the biggest all metal part on the bike.
I cant think of anything else pertinant at the moment, if you have any questions or get into trouble just message me, you can see the photos of my lateset paint on the forum, it nwas just done a couple weeks ago.

[Rube]

Thanks for the info Blurred. Do you have any recommendations on what type of paint to use as far as durability goes, enamel, lacquer, epoxy, ect...? When I worked for a year in a paint shop doing Mil-Spec painting we used a high fill epoxy buff for the primer before we top coated with CARC. The epoxy was some pretty good stuff.

[Blurred Vision]

If you have access to the epoxy materials and are most comfortable using them Thats what I would recomend. I have no experience myself with epoxies, just laquers, polyurethanes and enamels. My first paintjob was high grade furniture laquer because thats what i had available to me, and i worked with it everyday. We have a brand of automotive paints called Duplicolor at our canadian tire strores, good product, but costly per can. If your doing mostly matte black a multisurface paint may work just fine. or something like rustoleum, they have lots of new finish colours and effects.
Always test out the layers your going to apply on something before you start the whole project. Also allow lots of drying/curing time, sometimes things go wrong.
Note: A good degreaser/cleaner is a god sent lol. You can also get this in a disposable prep wipe.
Things react and you will probable experience some problems, always remove any and all reacted material before carrying on, a reacted layer will creat weakness in the integrity of your final layers.

[Rube]

Agreed!! Prep work is 90% of a good paint job. The time spent and the corners you don't cut will all pay off in the end. I have access to a sandblaster for the tank and I always use 100% acetone to clean with.

[Blurred Vision]

Just so your aware, that gas tank will rust overnight so if you sandblast it try and get something on it right away to prevent it from rusting, ie primer of some sort, preferably compatible with the epoxy if your using that

[Tiger]

 :) Be veeeeeery careful sandblasting your gas tank, especially at the four low points, as you could 'blow through'  :o......I would recommend sanding or a chemical paint stripper mate.

              8).......TIGER....... 8)

[vadasz1]

I did many tanks for Tiger as well for Kenny S.  All the tanks I just used a 5" dia. orbital sander with 80-100 grit pads to remove the paint until I reach the metal. Once on metal I used 220-400 grit pads.  JB Weld any holes and then do what ever else is required.  I do all my tanks with a combination of JB Weld (if necessary) fiberglass and bondo.  I fiberglass the whole length from both bottom corners (and beyond them a bit) on both the outside and the inside.  Then I fill in with bondo until the seam area is completely filled.  Once it is sanded down you can never tell that there was a seam there.  Then use a high solid primer, let it dry for a day and then wet sand it smooth.  Now once you are satisfied with your smooth primer finish, you can go ahead and apply your base coat.  Remember that you will have to use a tack rag between coats.  Then wet sand using a maximum of 1500 grit paper and then apply your clear coat.  You can adjust how matte your clear coat will be by adding a matting agent.  Your automotive paint supplier should have everything you need in stock.

I used Duplicolor a few times but prefer Sherwin-Williams Automotive Finish paint.  Usually you can buy paint for about $100+/gal. for standard stuff and $180+/gal. for specialty paints.

[fret not]

To reinforce the recommendation to sand and not blast the tank, sand blasting can easily expand the metal and distort it from the impact of the particles.  On thicker metal like the frame you could blast it clean but the Vision tanks are rather thin metal and easily damaged.  Good luck with your finish project.

[inanecathode]

Alls i know about satin/flat paint is it looks really good right after you do it, but its subsequently looks really crappy, really fast. It's like crap velco, you look at it right and it'll capture every particle of dust in the county. Good luck cleaning it too :P
Flat/satin finish is passe these days anyway, all the chicks dig Kanji graphics now.

[kiawrench]

 have you considered having bike wrapped? 

you can also now skip the paint process completely too,  take bike down to a automotive sign shop, design your own graphics, have it printed to graphic wrap , and have them "wrap" the bike . about the same expense as paint, stands up well ,and wont come off due to small gas spill or the sun .then you can keep bike clean with a quick rinse and a very small amount of soap . then dry it with a towel .
the KANJI idea would work extremely well in a wrap application . matte black can be done on the graphic wrap material , as well as your favorite family photo, it will depend on the sign shop, and skill of the person making the wrap . application is easy, but still best left to the shop people( since they do it all the time anyway) i do not know about shops in your area, but here they warranty the wrap for 5 years , both grapics and wrap material, against fade and splits, but not scratches, or damage due to operator fault .

i have seen bikes with computer motherboard grapics, city scapes, 40s style pin up girls, kanji,even saw one done up as a "woody" all on graphic wrap . you are only limited by your imagination, and your wallet .

[Lucky]

Inane, I'm not lying in wait to catch you in something i dissagree with, i'm really not...But, Paint technology has come a long way in recent years, there are now excellent (read expensive though) flat and Matte paints available that are specificly designed to be cleanable.  the trick has allways been that a smooth surface reflects light well & hence has a good gloss.  the smoother the finish, the easier to clean. 

Improvements in smooth flat finishes have come to the point that you can now buy interior brush on wall paint in flat & matte finishes that have excellent cleanability.  no not as well as gloss finishes, but good enough to keep them looking as good as the day they were applied, following the manufacturers instructions.

sorry i don't know specific manufacturers, i stopped by a few paint shops when i was deciding on a paint for Cafe Vision, but promptly forgot the names when i was quoted a price...

Alls i know about satin/flat paint is it looks really good right after you do it, but its subsequently looks really crappy, really fast. It's like crap velco, you look at it right and it'll capture every particle of dust in the county. Good luck cleaning it too :P
Flat/satin finish is passe these days anyway, all the chicks dig Kanji graphics now.

[supervision]

 google, moparts.com/ paint job on a budget.  These guys do some serious work with rust-o-leum and roller.

[inanecathode]

Inane, I'm not lying in wait to catch you in something i dissagree with, i'm really not...But, Paint technology has come a long way in recent years, there are now excellent (read expensive though) flat and Matte paints available that are specificly designed to be cleanable.  the trick has allways been that a smooth surface reflects light well & hence has a good gloss.  the smoother the finish, the easier to clean. 

Improvements in smooth flat finishes have come to the point that you can now buy interior brush on wall paint in flat & matte finishes that have excellent cleanability.  no not as well as gloss finishes, but good enough to keep them looking as good as the day they were applied, following the manufacturers instructions.

sorry i don't know specific manufacturers, i stopped by a few paint shops when i was deciding on a paint for Cafe Vision, but promptly forgot the names when i was quoted a price...

Alls i know about satin/flat paint is it looks really good right after you do it, but its subsequently looks really crappy, really fast. It's like crap velco, you look at it right and it'll capture every particle of dust in the county. Good luck cleaning it too :P
Flat/satin finish is passe these days anyway, all the chicks dig Kanji graphics now.

Flat and satin finish paints catch dust, grime, pollen, and probably animal dander. It's the finish of the surface, its bumpy microscopically therefor it catches and holds stuff. Im sure it's very expensive, and cleanable, but not nearly as cleanable as any gloss finish on any surface.

[Rube]

Inane - The process that I am looking at doing uses a satin clear coat. It's acts like a gloss coat as far as dust and particles go, but looks matte. From what I have read cleaning is easy, you just can't rub on it "TO" much because it will over time become glossy. Just wipe it down with a nice clean rag and some water. Here is a picture of what I am wanting to go for. Not quite flat, but not glossy either.


Kiawrench - I have looked into doing a matte/glossy wrap like the clock works wrap on the newer Honda CBR's. It just cost a bit more money than I really wanna spend on the body work. Plus there is no one close to me that will do the custom job for a reasonable price. Most of the shops all have precut layouts for the newer sports bikes. As far as the Kanji graphics goes, I think they would be a bit overkill on an '82 model year bike. I want a more simple, clean look.

[inanecathode]

I was kidding about the kanji graphics, it's just a big 'look at meeeeee!' expression. So is satin finish, imo. It always looks weird on bikes to me. It says "i laid it over and broke most the plastics off, now its a street fightrrrrrr"

[Rube]

HAHAHA...touche my friend. I was going for the street fighter look because the '82 is so naked. I'm 28 so i fall right into that group of hooligans.  ;D

I used to work with a guy that stunted his GSXR a little bit and he got tired of dinging it up so he sprayed the whole thing with rhino liner. Is was a little weird but cool at the same time.

[Re-Vision]

You probably saw that high dollar bike someone built and painted matte black and high-lighted with red stripes, I remember seeing it recently and it looked great.   BDC

[inanecathode]

HAHAHA...touche my friend. I was going for the street fighter look because the '82 is so naked. I'm 28 so i fall right into that group of hooligans.  ;D

I used to work with a guy that stunted his GSXR a little bit and he got tired of dinging it up so he sprayed the whole thing with rhino liner. Is was a little weird but cool at the same time.

Come on man you're 6 years older than i am, paint the thing a nice color with a mile deep shine, polish yer metal bits and it'll get the nice ladies, not the stunta skanks.

[The Prophet of Doom]

I've posted this before -  I think it's bitching